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Old 01-28-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
nepg
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
You make a solid point, GM's will always take into consideration just how much failure of a pick will impact their jobs especially when there are huge doubts about a prospect and you know you are reaching to fill a need.
Past history shows that Philly under Reid was never a team that reached, so it remains quite open whether or not Reid will reach for Smith who is clearly the top QB in this year's draft but likely only a 13-18 ranked prospect.
I see zero opportunity for KC to find a trading partner unless they severely discount the #1 overall pick.
Smith will move up peoples' rankings quite a bit once he gets back in the public eye. Things are silly right now. And his value went up exponentially after the Senior Bowl.

Even so, if a QB is ranked among the Top 32 players, he's good enough to go #1. Especially with the rookie salary slots.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
You make a solid point, GM's will always take into consideration just how much failure of a pick will impact their jobs especially when there are huge doubts about a prospect and you know you are reaching to fill a need.
Past history shows that Philly under Reid was never a team that reached, so it remains quite open whether or not Reid will reach for Smith who is clearly the top QB in this year's draft but likely only a 13-18 ranked prospect.
I see zero opportunity for KC to find a trading partner unless they severely discount the #1 overall pick.
Except, you know, when they reached on a quarterback and passed over the "best available player" in Ricky Williams back in 1999. Worked out pretty well for them, despite being booed by their fanbase and ripped by analysts.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Except, you know, when they reached on a quarterback and passed over the "best available player" in Ricky Williams back in 1999. Worked out pretty well for them, despite being booed by their fanbase and ripped by analysts.
Was it a reach or not, there wasn't the information we get today to decide whether or not McNabb was high on team's boards or just down on Gurus' boards. There was no 'Path to the Draft', no NFL Network that discussed the draft, and fans booing hardly means squat when it comes to team's picks.
Reid, during his career, has proven to be an excellent judge of QB talent, so again was McNabb a reach and if so by how much. By that I mean, was he a top 5 talent who Philly took ahead of Williams because they needed a QB or was he like Smith, a top 13-18 talent who he might take #1 overall.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Reid drafted Kolb in the 2nd while the team was a legit Super Bowl contender in one of the most shocking picks of the past ten years. And he took Kafka and Foles.

He is an amazing QB coach but his good track record as an evaluator starts and ends with McNabb, whatever that's worth.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Reid drafted Kolb in the 2nd while the team was a legit Super Bowl contender in one of the most shocking picks of the past ten years. And he took Kafka and Foles.

He is an amazing QB coach but his good track record as an evaluator starts and ends with McNabb, whatever that's worth.
Not really. Foles has looked good and Kafka was always going to just be a backup QB. Kolb was the best QB in that draft class and was a good pick. Kolb looked good in some games he got to play in and just ran into a bad situation when they gave him the ball. With how quickly McNabb declined, it was a good pick. Unfortunately, Kolb can't stay on the field to even attempt to prove himself.

Reid was in Green Bay with Hasselbeck and Brooks. He's proven what he can do as a QB developer and evaluator.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Not really. Foles has looked good and Kafka was always going to just be a backup QB. Kolb was the best QB in that draft class and was a good pick. Kolb looked good in some games he got to play in and just ran into a bad situation when they gave him the ball. With how quickly McNabb declined, it was a good pick. Unfortunately, Kolb can't stay on the field to even attempt to prove himself.

Reid was in Green Bay with Hasselbeck and Brooks. He's proven what he can do as a QB developer and evaluator.
Worked with Mark Brunell also. You have to wonder the mindset with Reid. Is he a guy who thinks you need a #1 pick at that position or do you try to develope someone while bringing in a free agent to run the team.

Chiefs fans don't want to hear it but i think if i were a fan i'd defer to Andy Reid's couple of decades of experience and roll with him on this one.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Not really. Foles has looked good and Kafka was always going to just be a backup QB. Kolb was the best QB in that draft class and was a good pick. Kolb looked good in some games he got to play in and just ran into a bad situation when they gave him the ball. With how quickly McNabb declined, it was a good pick. Unfortunately, Kolb can't stay on the field to even attempt to prove himseLF
Reid was in Green Bay with Hasselbeck and Brooks. He's proven what he can do as a QB developer and evaluator.
Brooks...I would compare Smith to him in a heartbeat and not just because they are both black. Both are capable of putting up decent numbers and making their teams fringe playoff contenders but neither have the mettle or composure to get their teams deep into the playoffs. The only difference is that Brooks was rightly drafted in the 4th round and Smith will more than likely be way overdrafted in the first round.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Worked with Mark Brunell also. You have to wonder the mindset with Reid. Is he a guy who thinks you need a #1 pick at that position or do you try to develope someone while bringing in a free agent to run the team.

Chiefs fans don't want to hear it but i think if i were a fan i'd defer to Andy Reid's couple of decades of experience and roll with him on this one.
You have to take Geno #1 if you want him. Kind of basic. He's going in the Top 10. The rest of the class has too many question marks to put faith in the draft falling perfectly for you in the 2nd or 3rd round to get someone that's going to be your starting QB.

Geno is head and shoulders above the rest of the field right now. It's not even close.

I don't get the big moments thing with him. Put him in a situation where he doesn't have the pressure of being perfect every single play of every single game (which was the case this year), and I think he'll do a lot better when you do need him to come up big. When he stopped being absolutely perfect, that team completely fell apart. It's crazy to expect him to do what he did in the first half of the season for the entire season with absolutely no help from anywhere else.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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You have to take Geno #1 if you want him. Kind of basic. He's going in the Top 10. The rest of the class has too many question marks to put faith in the draft falling perfectly for you in the 2nd or 3rd round to get someone that's going to be your starting QB.

Geno is head and shoulders above the rest of the field right now. It's not even close.

I don't get the big moments thing with him. Put him in a situation where he doesn't have the pressure of being perfect every single play of every single game (which was the case this year), and I think he'll do a lot better when you do need him to come up big. When he stopped being absolutely perfect, that team completely fell apart. It's crazy to expect him to do what he did in the first half of the season for the entire season with absolutely no help from anywhere else.
He had two great WRs and potential first round picks doing most of the leg work racking up all the YAC for him and a pretty solid running game. Let's not kid ourselves to think Smith was a one man show. He played in a QB friendly system, the same system that allowed QBs to put up big numbers at TT, OK St and Houston.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:14 AM    (permalink
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I think the whole point is you want your QB to play in a QB friendly system.

Also, I think a QB friendly system would involve much better blocking from the offensive line.

Go on about your QB friendly systems that have bad blocking though.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:46 AM    (permalink
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He had two great WRs and potential first round picks doing most of the leg work racking up all the YAC for him and a pretty solid running game. Let's not kid ourselves to think Smith was a one man show. He played in a QB friendly system, the same system that allowed QBs to put up big numbers at TT, OK St and Houston.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:34 AM    (permalink
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We were hearing that by the first month of the college football season and it remains a totally inaccurate comparison for Geno Smith. Let's not forget that RGIII is a world-class athlete who is an exception to the rule.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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We were hearing that by the first month of the college football season and it remains a totally inaccurate comparison for Geno Smith. Let's not forget that RGIII is a world-class athlete who is an exception to the rule.

No, the point is people were arguing that Griffin's production was the result of his two stud WRs, Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams, and he was the beneficiary of RB Terrance Ganaway who rushed for nearly 1600 yards and 21 TDs in 2011.

IMO there really isn't a world of difference between Smith and Griffin as passers.
I see similar accuracy and arm strength.

Remember these guys both played in Air Raid offenses, the only difference being Geno Smith doesn't run the football.

Sometimes great players play with other great players. It doesn't mean the other player(s) is carrying the lesser one.

Just because Geno Smith had the opportunity to throw the football to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin doesn't mean Smith is a fraud QB.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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He had two great WRs and potential first round picks doing most of the leg work racking up all the YAC for him and a pretty solid running game. Let's not kid ourselves to think Smith was a one man show. He played in a QB friendly system, the same system that allowed QBs to put up big numbers at TT, OK St and Houston.
All I'll say is that I hope you aren't a Matt Barkley fan.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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No, the point is people were arguing that Griffin's production was the result of his two stud WRs, Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams, and he was the beneficiary of RB Terrance Ganaway who rushed for nearly 1600 yards and 21 TDs in 2011.

IMO there really isn't a world of difference between Smith and Griffin as passers.
I see similar accuracy and arm strength.

Remember these guys both played in Air Raid offenses, the only difference being Geno Smith doesn't run the football.

Sometimes great players play with other great players. It doesn't mean the other player(s) is carrying the lesser one.

Just because Geno Smith had the opportunity to throw the football to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin doesn't mean Smith is a fraud QB.

I thought Griffin had the better ball placement on a variety of his throws, much better mobility and i think superior composure as a QB. This is a bad comparison for me. I'd compare Smith more to Blaine Gabbert actually.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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No, the point is people were arguing that Griffin's production was the result of his two stud WRs, Kendall Wright and Terrance Williams, and he was the beneficiary of RB Terrance Ganaway who rushed for nearly 1600 yards and 21 TDs in 2011.

IMO there really isn't a world of difference between Smith and Griffin as passers.
I see similar accuracy and arm strength.

Remember these guys both played in Air Raid offenses, the only difference being Geno Smith doesn't run the football.

Sometimes great players play with other great players. It doesn't mean the other player(s) is carrying the lesser one.

Just because Geno Smith had the opportunity to throw the football to Stedman Bailey and Tavon Austin doesn't mean Smith is a fraud QB.

Ganaway benefited more from the offense than Griffin did. The guy is plodder with no power and had a bunch of room to run. Where is he at in the NFL? Fourth string behind Daryl Richardson and Isaiah Pead.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I thought Griffin had the better ball placement on a variety of his throws, much better mobility and i think superior composure as a QB. This is a bad comparison for me. I'd compare Smith more to Blaine Gabbert actually.

Blaine Gabbert wasn't half the college QB that Geno Smith was, or NFL prospect for that matter.

Gabbert was drafted top 10 because he had prototypical NFL tools, not because of his actual game.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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The Jets did it in the '97 draft which was oddly a similar draft to this one with the value players were mostly on the O and D lines. When Peyton Manning went back to school they swapped picks with St. Louis who took Orlando Pace. Jets took James Farrior.
the moral of that story is stick at 1 and take the OT.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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the moral of that story is stick at 1 and take the OT.
Meh...Farrior had a highly productive 15 year career. The Jets went 48-32 over the span of Farrior's time with the team. The Rams had like 4 good years in the entirety of Orland Pace's career 13 year career.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I don't think Geno Smith has that great of a deep arm, and it showed during the bowl game.

Excellent zip in the intermediate area, but I noticed when he throws across the field from the opposite hash mark, it doens't have the same zip.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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He had two great WRs and potential first round picks doing most of the leg work racking up all the YAC for him and a pretty solid running game. Let's not kid ourselves to think Smith was a one man show. He played in a QB friendly system, the same system that allowed QBs to put up big numbers at TT, OK St and Houston.
For one, it's not a system that any QB can run. It's bigger than a lot of NFL playbooks and requires the QB to know absolutely everything that's going on on the field. Other QBs coming out of the system, besides Kolb and Harrell (wtf both of these guys came out of that offense and into a GB-style WCO????), were either older prospects or just didn't have the physical make-up to play the position in the NFL. Also, he'd be going into a QB-friendly system with Andy Reid...

Besides that, he's put up numbers in two distinctly different systems at WVU and has shown amazing improvement each year. There's a lot of weird and not-that-accurate nitpicking going on with Geno criticism.

And I haven't even gone into the chicken-egg argument/criticism regarding the receivers.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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the moral of that story is stick at 1 and take the OT.
I'm sure Miami is absolutely thrilled with the Jake Long investment instead of taking Matt Ryan.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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He had two great WRs and potential first round picks doing most of the leg work racking up all the YAC for him and a pretty solid running game. Let's not kid ourselves to think Smith was a one man show. He played in a QB friendly system, the same system that allowed QBs to put up big numbers at TT, OK St and Houston.
He also had one of the most porus defenses for a major conference team I've witnessed in years going up against a pretty tough schedule. There was all kinds of pressure on him. He didn't have reliable running game and while his receivers were good, he had to make timing throws in that system. The bad defense and lack of a running game means he had to throw a LOT.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure Miami is absolutely thrilled with the Jake Long investment instead of taking Matt Ryan.
Cha-Ching!!

But they went with the high rated player.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm sure Miami is absolutely thrilled with the Jake Long investment instead of taking Matt Ryan.
Haha, so much this it isn't funny.
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