2nd Nas mock, post senior bowl - 2 rounds/comments

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by wicket

nah, ellis will be gone. last years third rounder Akiem Hicks was really damn good during last season as a rookie and after jordan he was our best Dlineman already and he is the perfect 34 DEnd. The switch has been announced by SP and quite frankly i dont agree with richardson fitting a 34. The saints havent announced the DC yet but are exclusively looking for 34 guys

Ok, good info thanks. You may be right on Richardson I suppose. I can definitely see NO targeting a pass rusher followed by a NT or something like that.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by BallerT1215

I dig your style. I still don't believe in the Patterson "top 10 hype" but pairing him with Stevie, and getting our ILB of future with Minter. Pretty Solid.

I'm not sure if I buy it either, but I think Buffalo would be the team to pull the trigger. He would really complete that offense too. ALso the way my draft fell they can probably snag Nassib in the 3rd.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by leroyisgod

I like the Cowboys picks, but we IL wasn't addressed and this is by far our biggest need.

Weakside ILB? They are going 4-3. They have Lee and Carter and SLB is not a hugely important position in Kiffin's D. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

I didn't really mean to give them 2 LDEs though, my mistake. They'd probably go with a S after taking Ansah in the 1st, maybe a DT.

[BallerT1215]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I'm not sure if I buy it either, but I think Buffalo would be the team to pull the trigger. He would really complete that offense too. ALso the way my draft fell they can probably snag Nassib in the 3rd.

If we get Nassib in the 3rd, I'll take it. Trading back into 1st for Nassib or even our 2nd rnd pick as many have does not make me too thrilled.

[Seasonticketholder]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Jordan and who? Not that I hate the Mingo idea. I hope you aren't counting on someone like Sedrick Elliss though. Richardson fits any D though and do we even know they are playing a 3-4 for sure? They don't even have a DC yet.

Jordan and Akiem Hicks. Hicks was our rookie last year, played really well for us last season, and has experience as a DE/NT in the 3-4. He is a solid young player, and gives us two 5-technique guys.

I do not mean any disrespect but we are definitely moving to a 3-4. Sean Payton's reason for firing Spagnuolo was because of his decision to change defensive philosophies. We are going to run a 3-4. Beyond that, even if our defense was terrible, and it was, that does not mean that every position on the defense requires an upgrade. Jordan and Hicks are terrific young players, up and comers. Bunkley is a serviceable NT who will allow us the opportunity to pick a NT later in what is a deep draft on the D-line. A Brandon Williams, for instance, makes much more sense as a rotational guy than taking Hankins in the first round as I have seen many do. In this case here, Richardson does not make sense given that we have two guys. So, Mingo or Jordan or an OLB makes much more sense!

[coordinator0]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Thats certainly fair and they may have to let Ellerbe walk given their cap situation. Its worse than I thought.

I believe the Ravens will have a bit under $16 million to work with after Lewis retires and before they tender the RFAs and EFAs. With Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, and Williams all being free agents (the only ones that matter) it's not a good situation. Williams is probably gone regardless but I'm not worried about that. The other four are the ones that will create holes if they're not back with the team. Well, I should say three because Flacco isn't going anywhere.

If Reed isn't with the team next season I wouldn't mind the Rambo pick so much. It's still a bit early for him in my opinion but Thompson isn't ready yet and the Ravens aren't going to be players in free agency.

[ChicagoBearsVet23]

Horrible Bears Draft. We would go Ogletree and Warford/Long/Amerson.

[nobodyinparticular]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

3. Oakland - Bjoern Werner - A high motor pass rusher would be a great way to start rebuilding that defense. They could go Moore here, but Werner is more complete.

I feel like this could be an option if Lotulelei is off the board. I would compare Werner to Aaron Kampman. Not the Aaron Kampman as he was drafted who was an anchor at LE tipping the scales at 285 lbs who didn't really get to to the QB much, but the redesigned Aaron Kampman who dropped 25-30 lbs and started getting sacks.

Based on McKenzie's history with the Packers and his desire for football rats, I could see Werner over Moore.

I don't really like that much, frankly because I feel Moore has a higher ceiling, but it's conceivable.

My hope is for a trade down.



EDIT: My question with the Werner pick is how you see him fitting in a hybrid scheme that likely will lean more toward a 3-4 defense.

[vidae]

Great first pick for KC, so-so second pick for KC. If Arthur Brown or DeAndre Hopkins are there in the second they would be better picks for KC.

[regoob2]

Good first pick for the Bears but the second is really bad. No way we would do that.

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Huh? No way. They have a Lacy type. They need a lightning to his thunder. Lacy's a plodder.

ive heard the bengals are all but locked in on lacy

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I never really expected those guys to become studs though.

As far as the 2nd round, I think RB is arguably their biggest need. They're the Pittsburgh Steelers, they have to be able to run the ball and they can't do that with any back on the current roster. Taylor is a perfect fit with his physicality and pass pro abilities. Get him and his Stanford buddy Decastro in the lineup and the run game will go to an all new level.

"they are the pittsburgh steelers" they havent been those steelers since 05, arians was running a poor mans version of the colts offense for years (then he did it with the colts, which is odd) but they havent been a running team since ben turned the corner as a passer.

haley runs a dink and dunk offense because he needs to keep ben up right and because wallace runs rounded out routes and brown is better at underneath stuff than going deep, but with improvements to the oline (and now hiring haleys oline coach) id imagine they will begin moving forward to what haley likes to do and get the WRs more involved. Haley likes big WRs, and thats why heath had a career year but hes hurt and brown and sanders arent going to cut it. As far as the running game goes, redman is horrible, dwyer is mildly ok and mendenhall is probably out, which i hate but whatever....anyway my point is they arent a running team anymore, they have to run the ball effectively but they need help at WR and on defense and a guard more than RB, if they do take a RB high i would want lacy.

I kinda expect them to pursue either bowe or bush this offseason and make a once in a decade splash in FA

I think once they get that big bodied WR that haley wants they will become more dangerous downfield and even further from that "the steelers need to run the ball rah rah smashmouth steeler football" nonsense

[CJSchneider]

I concur with the comments made by my fellow "WHO DAT" Nation members.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by coordinator0

I believe the Ravens will have a bit under $16 million to work with after Lewis retires and before they tender the RFAs and EFAs. With Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, and Williams all being free agents (the only ones that matter) it's not a good situation. Williams is probably gone regardless but I'm not worried about that. The other four are the ones that will create holes if they're not back with the team. Well, I should say three because Flacco isn't going anywhere.

If Reed isn't with the team next season I wouldn't mind the Rambo pick so much. It's still a bit early for him in my opinion but Thompson isn't ready yet and the Ravens aren't going to be players in free agency.

I read today that they are 5 mil over the cap and that Lewis' retirement will save them 3.8 mil. Flacco will cost them 15 on the tag. So they are basically 16 mil or so over the cap right now. Ngata and Suggs can be renegotiated and Jones/Bolidn will have to be let go or renegotiated as well. Its going to be tricky. They'll lose at least 2 of Ellerbe,Kruger,Reed and Boldin. Probably Williams for sure too.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by K Train

"they are the pittsburgh steelers" they havent been those steelers since 05, arians was running a poor mans version of the colts offense for years (then he did it with the colts, which is odd) but they havent been a running team since ben turned the corner as a passer.

haley runs a dink and dunk offense because he needs to keep ben up right and because wallace runs rounded out routes and brown is better at underneath stuff than going deep, but with improvements to the oline (and now hiring haleys oline coach) id imagine they will begin moving forward to what haley likes to do and get the WRs more involved. Haley likes big WRs, and thats why heath had a career year but hes hurt and brown and sanders arent going to cut it. As far as the running game goes, redman is horrible, dwyer is mildly ok and mendenhall is probably out, which i hate but whatever....anyway my point is they arent a running team anymore, they have to run the ball effectively but they need help at WR and on defense and a guard more than RB, if they do take a RB high i would want lacy.

I kinda expect them to pursue either bowe or bush this offseason and make a once in a decade splash in FA

I think once they get that big bodied WR that haley wants they will become more dangerous downfield and even further from that "the steelers need to run the ball rah rah smashmouth steeler football" nonsense

I didn't say they were going to be a running team, but they want to run the ball more and Haley has always stated that. They need a good back even if they want to be a pass heavy team. They have nothing there and you can't pass every down no matter what. Will it be in the 2nd round? I don't know, but I think Taylor is tremendous value and can make a huge impact.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by regoob2

Good first pick for the Bears but the second is really bad. No way we would do that.

I think Denard will sneak into the top 75. Someone will gamble on him IMO. It may not be the Bears, but I wanted to slot him in there somewhere. It will be some team looking to give their offense a boost. I really think he could be a Percy Harvin

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsVet23

Horrible Bears Draft. We would go Ogletree and Warford/Long/Amerson.

I'm not buying them taking a LB just yet. They really only need one in the 1st(i.e. an immediate starter) if Urlacher leaves and I just don't see that happening. I think they may move up for Lane Johnson. They desperately need an LT. They also may do something like cut Peppers so they can afford an LT like Clady or Long(my #1 suspicion)

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by vidae

Great first pick for KC, so-so second pick for KC. If Arthur Brown or DeAndre Hopkins are there in the second they would be better picks for KC.

Man I don't see that one. They could use another ILB, but I think TE would fill a much bigger hole(Moeaki is terrible) as well as provide a nice security blanket for the rookie QB. If Eifert is around in the 2nd, he's a steal as far as value goes too.

[RCAChainGang]

This would be a nightmare for me on draft day. Allen doesn't warrant that draft position and ESPECIALLY not if Dion Jordan, Jonathan Cooper, and Xavier Rhodes are on the board.

TY Hilton was the most electric player on our offense and while Avery isn't a long term solution he is a decent enough option. Reggie will be fine for a couple more years and Lavon Brazil is a surprising talent that produced when he saw the field. I agree that receiver is a need for the Colts, but it isn't as pertinent as a replacement to Dwight Freeney, a competent corner, a 5 tech, or a OG would be.

I would be pissed. Sorry but this is just terrible for the Colts.

EDIT: Also you said find a LT in FA. LT is probably the only OL spot that is filled with a capable starter. Castonzo is great for LT. The weakness with the Colts line is the interior not LT. We might need to find a RT to take over if Winston Justice isn't resigned, but Castonzo is fine. I suppose you are proposing that you shift Castonzo to RT? Regardless and OG is the issue at the moment with Justice's future in the balance.

[coordinator0]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I read today that they are 5 mil over the cap and that Lewis' retirement will save them 3.8 mil. Flacco will cost them 15 on the tag. So they are basically 16 mil or so over the cap right now. Ngata and Suggs can be renegotiated and Jones/Bolidn will have to be let go or renegotiated as well. Its going to be tricky. They'll lose at least 2 of Ellerbe,Kruger,Reed and Boldin. Probably Williams for sure too.

That projection had to be after the Ravens tendered the EFAs and RFAs. Trust me, I've been following their cap situation for a while. This is a good resource that's been reliable in the past. Lewis retiring actually saves them $4.35 million too.

Like I said I expect Williams to be gone anyways and I'm hoping Baltimore doesn't overpay for him. He's definitely the least important out of the free agents that played a substantial role.

[wwgd]

Sylvester Williams at 14? No thanks. Looked pretty good at the Senior Bowl, but that's a huge reach.

[Shupp]

Not sure about Trufant yet but I like the 2nd pick for SF

[Abaddon]

You've got a couple guys getting double-drafted in Rd2.

[rawdawg]

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I think a multi faceted type like Robinson would be pretty ideal. They don't have a speedy change of pace back and they don't have any sort of speedy slot WR either(Hester I guess but he's useless). Robinson is a playmaker and someone is going to gamble on him. The senior bowl was his first time playing WR practically, he'll get better.

Same thing people said about Armanti Edwards. I don't have a problem with the Bears drafting Robinson......if it's the 5th round. 2nd round is simply insanity. That's a stupid gamble that nobody should be willing to take in the top 50 picks.

[Nastradamus]

Originally Posted by RCAChainGang

This would be a nightmare for me on draft day. Allen doesn't warrant that draft position and ESPECIALLY not if Dion Jordan, Jonathan Cooper, and Xavier Rhodes are on the board.

TY Hilton was the most electric player on our offense and while Avery isn't a long term solution he is a decent enough option. Reggie will be fine for a couple more years and Lavon Brazil is a surprising talent that produced when he saw the field. I agree that receiver is a need for the Colts, but it isn't as pertinent as a replacement to Dwight Freeney, a competent corner, a 5 tech, or a OG would be.

I would be pissed. Sorry but this is just terrible for the Colts.

EDIT: Also you said find a LT in FA. LT is probably the only OL spot that is filled with a capable starter. Castonzo is great for LT. The weakness with the Colts line is the interior not LT. We might need to find a RT to take over if Winston Justice isn't resigned, but Castonzo is fine. I suppose you are proposing that you shift Castonzo to RT? Regardless and OG is the issue at the moment with Justice's future in the balance.

Teams that build around QBs tend to make sure they constantly have the right pieces around him. You aren't far from not having very good weapons for Luck to work with. I think ALlen is a tremendous value and a good investment. Same way Fleener was though the D needed help more. The Colts also have a lot of cash to spend in free agency and I think they'll find a G and an OLB there. Probalby Anthony Spencer at OLB IMO. My bad on the LT comment though, should have just said OL.

edit - also Hilton drops a ton of passes. He and Avery accounted for 22, the top duo on one team in the league IIRC. He's an explosive player, but a #3 in the end IMHO.