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Old 02-04-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
You can't fix arm strength. And if you don't have arm strength you're not an NFL qb.
Tom Brady fixed it.

Joe Montana didn't have it.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady fixed it.

Joe Montana didn't have it.
Both had bigger arms than Barkley.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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D-Unit pls
I don't like debating with you Monomach. All you do is get mad. Your rant against bitoni about the Jets and Warmack made me smh.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Both had bigger arms than Barkley.
Now that's just pure hating.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Andy Dalton isn't very good.
He's been to the playoffs two years in a row so he's not exactly terrible.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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You can make it in the NFL with average arm strength, its just a lot harder. Guys with plus arm strength can make up for late reads and put it in tougher spots.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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You can make it in the NFL with average arm strength, its just a lot harder. Guys with plus arm strength can make up for late reads and put it in tougher spots.
Brililant!

...and a lot of guys with rocket arms who go nowhere.

Jeff George, Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell were made #1 overall picks because of it. I'm done with guys who want to knock Barkley only for arm strength.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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but, they were also drafted number one overall BECAUSE OF THEIR ARM STRENGTH.

a strong arm doesn't equate being a good QB, but if it were the easiest thing to fix, then everyone in the NFL would have rocket arms. (exaggeration, yes. but you get the point). You can't fix arm strength. plus, things such as reads and footwork are much easier to improve. that's maturity of the brain and muscle memory. you can't just make a QB's arm strength better.

You also used 2 of the best QB's of all time...both of whom HARDLY had the noodle Barkley's got coming into the NFL
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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but, they were also drafted number one overall BECAUSE OF THEIR ARM STRENGTH.

a strong arm doesn't equate being a good QB, but if it were the easiest thing to fix, then everyone in the NFL would have rocket arms. (exaggeration, yes. but you get the point). You can't fix arm strength. plus, things such as reads and footwork are much easier to improve. that's maturity of the brain and muscle memory. you can't just make a QB's arm strength better.

You also used 2 of the best QB's of all time...both of whom HARDLY had the noodle Barkley's got coming into the NFL
Scotty,
If we were using preseason rankings you'd be loving Barkley right now. Just stop with the noodle arm comment like you've actually watch him play. USC didn't play Rutgers so I know you didn't watch him in 4 years.

You can fix arm strength. It's called commitment. That's why some have fixed it and others haven't.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Scotty,
If we were using preseason rankings you'd be loving Barkley right now. Just stop with the noodle arm comment like you've actually watch him play. USC didn't play Rutgers so I know you didn't watch him in 4 years.

You can fix arm strength. It's called commitment. That's why some have fixed it and others haven't.
it's funny you keep knocking rankings when that's all this site has.

also, it's funny you go to a Rutgers comment. that almost made sense. But yeah, let's pretend I just only watch Rutgers games and go off rankings because there's no other thing to do and god forbid we delve into the actual points made.

And commitment? So Chad Pennington, who was a noodle arm pre-injury, and worked his way back from said surgeries wasn't "committed".

Oh.

That's good logic.

Almost

edit: Also, Tyler Wilson was my favorite QB in the pre-season. He's been it up until his mediocre showing at the Senior Bowl. But let's ignore all these things
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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He's been to the playoffs two years in a row so he's not exactly terrible.
He's ultimately gonna hold his team back if he doesn't dramatically improve his deep accuracy and build his body up and throw with his legs.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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He's ultimately gonna hold his team back if he doesn't dramatically improve his deep accuracy and build his body up and throw with his legs.
I certainly won't deny that
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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it's funny you keep knocking rankings when that's all this site has.

also, it's funny you go to a Rutgers comment. that almost made sense. But yeah, let's pretend I just only watch Rutgers games and go off rankings because there's no other thing to do and god forbid we delve into the actual points made.

And commitment? So Chad Pennington, who was a noodle arm pre-injury, and worked his way back from said surgeries wasn't "committed".

Oh.

That's good logic.

Almost

edit: Also, Tyler Wilson was my favorite QB in the pre-season. He's been it up until his mediocre showing at the Senior Bowl. But let's ignore all these things
Obviously joking with you with the Rutgers stuff. You don't have a serious side scotty so stop acting like you do now. Just be your fun loving self.

...and chad pennington never had commitment to improving his arm strength. He focused on other strengths. Doesn't mean he didn't have commitment to anything. oh scotty... ur fun.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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I don't like debating with you Monomach. All you do is get mad. Your rant against bitoni about the Jets and Warmack made me smh.
I don't get mad. I laugh when people talk nonsense...like saying that arm strength is an easy problem to fix.

...and I didn't rant. He said something stupid. I asked him to clarify. He didn't. He said some more stupid stuff. So I asked him to clarify again. Turned out he had no idea what he was talking about because he thought your average starting guard made 500k a year or whatever.

I think the person who gets mad is the crybaby who called everyone mad in the Manti Te'o thread and then closed it when everyone called him out on it.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Andy Dalton isn't very good.
2 years to the playoffs with only one real weapon? Horrible. Just horrible.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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a strong arm doesn't equate being a good QB, but if it were the easiest thing to fix, then everyone in the NFL would have rocket arms. (exaggeration, yes. but you get the point).
That's not exaggeration at all. You were 100% right. Training Staffs would be working on QB arm strength round the clock until it was "fixed."

So curious why the Jets didn't fix Chad Pennington's arm strength. Put a cannon on Chad Pennington and you've got one of the best QBs of all time. Deadly accurate, excellent decision maker, hard worker, good leader, very intelligent with a rocket arm? Guess the Jets didn't want a Peyton Manning clone badly enough to fix him.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Dalton has 100% improved his arm strength. Rather, he's 100% tweaked something in his mechanics/worked on his lower body strength to increase his arm strength.

I don't think you can improve someone's arm strength unless they had that potential in the first place but just didn't maximize that potential so to speak (to explain a guy like Pennington).

Brees did too.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Dalton has 100% improved his arm strength. Rather, he's 100% tweaked something in his mechanics/worked on his lower body strength to increase his arm strength.

I don't think you can improve someone's arm strength unless they had that potential in the first place but just didn't maximize that potential so to speak (to explain a guy like Pennington).

Brees did too.
It was all mechanics.
Gruden and Zampese have done a good job working with him on it. And he still has room to improve mechanics.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Dalton has 100% improved his arm strength. Rather, he's 100% tweaked something in his mechanics/worked on his lower body strength to increase his arm strength.

I don't think you can improve someone's arm strength unless they had that potential in the first place but just didn't maximize that potential so to speak (to explain a guy like Pennington).

Brees did too.
That's a problem with Barkley in this whole debate, he's already very sound mechanically and is pretty much maxed out physically. Not much room for growth in the arm strength department.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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That's a problem with Barkley in this whole debate, he's already very sound mechanically and is pretty much maxed out physically. Not much room for growth in the arm strength department.
This is my thoughts 100%. Also he doesn't have ideal height which is another issue in and of its self. Its fine for Drew Breese/Russel Wilson types who are going to roll out all the time but for a pocket passer like Barkley it is a bigger issue. Plus I can't remember the last USC QB not named Palmer to succeed in the NFL.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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On a similar note, I feel that with Geno Smith's long arms and kind of overall lankiness, he actually has quite a bit of room for his arm strength to develop. He has the frame to get bit bigger and stronger and has some little weight transfer things he can improve on - all of which will help him get even more velocity as he grows moving forward.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:48 AM    (permalink
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That's a problem with Barkley in this whole debate, he's already very sound mechanically and is pretty much maxed out physically. Not much room for growth in the arm strength department.
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On a similar note, I feel that with Geno Smith's long arms and kind of overall lankiness, he actually has quite a bit of room for his arm strength to develop. He has the frame to get bit bigger and stronger and has some little weight transfer things he can improve on - all of which will help him get even more velocity as he grows moving forward.
A lot of people have been talking nonsense about arm strength not being something QBs can improve in, but these are 2 good points that I can agree with. And as far as physical upside (and even now), I can't deny Smith wins that argument.

Being a QB is much more than having physical gifts though. It's the intangibles that Barkley has that I like more than Smith. Teams with the #1 overall pick don't like settling for prospects with perceived limits. So I don't expect KC to take Barkley in a million years. But I do think he's gonna end up being the better QB in the long run.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:16 AM    (permalink
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I don't get mad. I laugh when people talk nonsense...like saying that arm strength is an easy problem to fix.

...and I didn't rant. He said something stupid. I asked him to clarify. He didn't. He said some more stupid stuff. So I asked him to clarify again. Turned out he had no idea what he was talking about because he thought your average starting guard made 500k a year or whatever.

I think the person who gets mad is the crybaby who called everyone mad in the Manti Te'o thread and then closed it when everyone called him out on it.
Maybe it's not nonsense but rather your inability to understand what is being said. ...like saying arm strength is an easy thing to fix. That is not what was said. I said that it was one of the easier things to fix...especially compared to other things a QB will have a harder time fixing... like character/intangibles, smarts, accuracy, athleticism, mobility, height, speed, innate ability to handle pressure, lead.... gifts that you are born with that just can't be taught. Is arm strength an easy fix? No, but it's certainly among one of the easier traits to improve on.

The fact that you're calling bitoni's posts stupid just goes to show that you're again not understanding what he's been trying to say.

Your problem is that you don't know how to have a healthy debate. Instead of arguing the point you end up talking down on people. It makes it appear like you are both mad and mean spirited.

I closed that thread cause it was no longer about Te'o and it wasn't a healthy discussion for this forum. Just immaturity from many involved, including myself.

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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we could say the same about the QB. there's no hard proof that Geno Smith is better than existing QB's on the roster. Just like there's no proof Joekel is better than Donald Stephenson.

end of the day I just dont see the value of Geno Smith at 1. He's not an RG3 type of prospect.
At the end of the day they need to keep Albert and go forward with him as their LT. If Geno or any other QB is deemed not worth the #1 overall pick, fine so be it, you look at someone else at a different position or if somehow they can, trade out.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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A lot of people have been talking nonsense about arm strength not being something QBs can improve in, but these are 2 good points that I can agree with. And as far as physical upside (and even now), I can't deny Smith wins that argument.

Being a QB is much more than having physical gifts though. It's the intangibles that Barkley has that I like more than Smith. Teams with the #1 overall pick don't like settling for prospects with perceived limits. So I don't expect KC to take Barkley in a million years. But I do think he's gonna end up being the better QB in the long run.
Without comparing which one will be the better QB in the long run, how much ceiling do you see Barkley having? 3-5 years from now, who would you compare him to?
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