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Old 02-05-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
And he won exactly how many playoff games with those guys?
Whether or not he was successful in the playoffs with his quarterbacks was not the point I was trying to make. Point is, he's a guy who tends to go against the grain when selecting a guy to develop/lead his team and allows those quarterbacks to experience success, even if it's not in terms of playoff wins.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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And he won exactly how many playoff games with those guys?
Geno Smith isn't your typical big game winner.

What PF is probably referring to is the whole thing about draft value. If Reid likes another QB more, but he's not ranked that way according to "draftniks" what then?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Right. So why wouldn't he want to do that with the best qb in the draft? Why would he want to do it with a lesser qb?
My original question was, what if he determines someone not named Geno Smith is the #1 QB he wants, should he select him first overall?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith isn't your typical big game winner.

What PF is probably referring to is the whole thing about draft value. If Reid likes another QB more, but he's not ranked that way according to "draftniks" what then?
Draft him.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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What PF is probably referring to is the whole thing about draft value. If Reid likes another QB more, but he's not ranked that way according to "draftniks" what then?
That's exactly what I'm saying!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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He did take McNabb #2 when he wasn't a popular choice or great value. With no obvious need other than qb I just don't see why he wouldn't take a qb.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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My original question was, what if he determines someone not named Geno Smith is the #1 QB he wants, should he select him first overall?
Why would he not?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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My original question was, what if he determines someone not named Geno Smith is the #1 QB he wants, should he select him first overall?
If you can't get him in the 2nd then yes.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith isn't your typical big game winner.

What PF is probably referring to is the whole thing about draft value. If Reid likes another QB more, but he's not ranked that way according to "draftniks" what then?
see, it's not about the "draftniks" rankings, it's about Reid and his teams rankings and then comparing them to what they think the rest of the league's rankings are.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad this debate is going so well. Good points on both sides, it entertaining, keeps the day going and the overall tone is not argumentative or insulting. Let's keep it this way without rustling jimmies!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad this debate is going so well. Good points on both sides, it entertaining, keeps the day going and the overall tone is not argumentative or insulting. Let's keep it this way without rustling jimmies!
Yay, hopefully this thread won't get locked then!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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He did take McNabb #2 when he wasn't a popular choice or great value. With no obvious need other than qb I just don't see why he wouldn't take a qb.
Is this true, though? I know everybody is saying it now, but I remember personally having it as:

1. Tim Couch
2. Daunte Culpepper
3. Donovan McNabb

I remember this pretty distinctly.

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Old 02-05-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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We could have a situation much like the Bengals in 2011. Granted there were more "elite" players in that draft, but they decided to pass on taking the #1 QB remaining on their board (who may or may not have been Andy Dalton) and took the best player available with the comfort of knowing come round two they'd be able to land a quarterback they still like (even with Locker, Gabbert and Ponder all going between their draft picks).

Kansas City has the ability to land the player they feel is the best in the entire draft, and probably be able to land a quarterback they still really like (assuming Geno won't be their #1 guy).
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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see, it's not about the "draftniks" rankings, it's about Reid and his teams rankings and then comparing them to what they think the rest of the league's rankings are.
Not totally. Say Reid liked Nassib or Manuel more than Smith, he wouldn't take them #1 overall. That'd be ridiculous. He'd work his rankings and consider the general consensus rankings and then make the best use of his resources.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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We could have a situation much like the Bengals in 2011. Granted there were more "elite" players in that draft, but they decided to pass on taking the #1 QB remaining on their board (who may or may not have been Andy Dalton) and took the best player available with the comfort of knowing come round two they'd be able to land a quarterback they still like (even with Locker, Gabbert and Ponder all going between their draft picks).

Kansas City has the ability to land the player they feel is the best in the entire draft, and probably be able to land a quarterback they still really like (assuming Geno won't be their #1 guy).
I like this point a lot. I feel that since there isn't a real "seperation" in most people eyes on who the best QB is, draft someone worthy of the #1 spot and see which falls to them in the 2nd.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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We could have a situation much like the Bengals in 2011. Granted there were more "elite" players in that draft, but they decided to pass on taking the #1 QB remaining on their board (who may or may not have been Andy Dalton) and took the best player available with the comfort of knowing come round two they'd be able to land a quarterback they still like (even with Locker, Gabbert and Ponder all going between their draft picks).

Kansas City has the ability to land the player they feel is the best in the entire draft, and probably be able to land a quarterback they still really like (assuming Geno won't be their #1 guy).
The Chiefs have a talented roster, with not a lot of holes. The Bengals had no one at receiver after letting go of Johnson and Owens. Green was an elite talent and made sense for them. Plus Gabbert sucked, Locker sucked and Ponder sucked. Geno Smith is better than all of them.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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We could have a situation much like the Bengals in 2011. Granted there were more "elite" players in that draft, but they decided to pass on taking the #1 QB remaining on their board (who may or may not have been Andy Dalton) and took the best player available with the comfort of knowing come round two they'd be able to land a quarterback they still like (even with Locker, Gabbert and Ponder all going between their draft picks).

Kansas City has the ability to land the player they feel is the best in the entire draft, and probably be able to land a quarterback they still really like (assuming Geno won't be their #1 guy).
So who would be the #1 pick, assuming Albert is locked up? Sure they could draft Star, but the KC fanbase would revolt and you don't sell season ticket packages that way, and that's only if you believe Star is an elite talent.. I don't. Who else could possibly be on the list for 1st overall if it isn't Joeckel or Star? QB. That's basically it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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So who would be the #1 pick, assuming Albert is locked up? Sure they could draft Star, but the KC fanbase would revolt and you don't sell season ticket packages that way, and that's only if you believe Star is an elite talent.. I don't. Who else could possibly be on the list for 1st overall if it isn't Joeckel or Star? QB. That's basically it.
Chance Wormack! Its not sexy, but he fills a need and is elite.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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They should just take Sandcastle and play him at QB.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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So who would be the #1 pick, assuming Albert is locked up? Sure they could draft Star, but the KC fanbase would revolt and you don't sell season ticket packages that way, and that's only if you believe Star is an elite talent.. I don't. Who else could possibly be on the list for 1st overall if it isn't Joeckel or Star? QB. That's basically it.
Fans may revolt if they select Star, but if Dorsey & Co. feel they're drafting the best player available and attempting to assemble the best roster possible then winning will take care of any backlash.

I see Kansas City selecting the BPA #1, drafting their favorite remaining QB at the start of round two, and bringing in Alex Smith as competition and a stable, veteran option at QB.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Chance Wormack! Its not sexy, but he fills a need and is elite.
OG is most definitely not a need. We have a second and a third round pick manning those spots and both guys have a lot of promise. OL in general is not a concern right now in Kansas City if Branden Albert gets locked up.

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Fans may revolt if they select Star, but if Dorsey & Co. feel they're drafting the best player available and attempting to assemble the best roster possible then winning will take care of any backlash.

I see Kansas City selecting the BPA #1, drafting their favorite remaining QB at the start of round two, and bringing in Alex Smith as competition and a stable, veteran option at QB.
In a weak QB class there is no point in taking the 5th best QB when you have the ability to take the best QB in the draft. It makes no sense at all to mess around with this position. Reid knows this, which is why his first draft pick with the Eagles was Donovan McNabb. I'm not sure why other people feel he would do things differently here.

And I doubt Alex Smith signs here to be a 1 year rental/stop-gap for the QB the Chiefs draft when he could potentially start for years elsewhere.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Dammit vidae get on the Sandcastle bandwagon while there is still room...
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Leon Sandcastle woud be an obvious upgrade at QB.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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In a weak QB class there is no point in taking the 5th best QB when you have the ability to take the best QB in the draft. It makes no sense at all to mess around with this position. Reid knows this, which is why his first draft pick with the Eagles was Donovan McNabb. I'm not sure why other people feel he would do things differently here.

And I doubt Alex Smith signs here to be a 1 year rental/stop-gap for the QB the Chiefs draft when he could potentially start for years elsewhere.
So if Reid likes Nassib or Manuel best you are comfortable with them being taken first overall even though there's a good shot they'd be available in round two?

When it comes to Alex Smith, Reid flirted with him a little bit last off-season and there's genuine interest there. Smith may not project as a long term starter if he goes to Kansas City, but would he be able to find a spot that could allow him to experience more success?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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OG is most definitely not a need. We have a second and a third round pick manning those spots and both guys have a lot of promise. OL in general is not a concern right now in Kansas City if Branden Albert gets locked up.
I only knew about Asamoah personally, because I went onto the Cheifs thread and talked about him with yall.
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