Franchise Quarterback least likely to win Superbowl as Starter Part IV

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Monomach

But doesn't u knowz? Teh arm strengthz is the easiest thing to fix!

I'd link to that thread, but I'm sure you saw it.

Lol, I saw it. Barkley sucks.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Brent

I don't expect RG3 to be healthy enough to do so

:\

This is pretty much where i'm at. I just don't see him completely overhauling his game and staying healthy. Forget that turf there in D.C. also, it's terrible. Not sure a QB in a WR body is going to work in the NFL.

[bucfan12]

I a lot of RG IIIs passing success had to do with the read option. I still question how he will fair WHEN he has to become a pass first qb. Sorry but this gimmick will get figured out soon. It's good to have wheels for a qb but know when to use them as your 2nd threat. Not first.

I question his ability to stay healthy as well. He's built like mike Vick. Frailer and not as thick as a Russell Wilson type player.

[bigbluedefense]

RGIII wasn't a great passer on 3rd and long when he wasn't calling a read option play. Out of the read option he was a nightmare, unbelievable talent. But he has a long way to go as a pure passer.

Luck, Wilson, even Kaepernick were all significantly more advanced as pure throwers than RGIII.

That doesn't mean that RGIII can't develop into a great passer. I would be shocked if he didn't. He just has to stop throwing his body around and he'll be fine.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

RGIII wasn't a great passer on 3rd and long when he wasn't calling a read option play. Out of the read option he was a nightmare, unbelievable talent. But he has a long way to go as a pure passer.

Luck, Wilson, even Kaepernick were all significantly more advanced as pure throwers than RGIII.

That doesn't mean that RGIII can't develop into a great passer. I would be shocked if he didn't. He just has to stop throwing his body around and he'll be fine.

Even when Vick reigned it in some he still got smacked in the mouth throwing out of the pocket. I just don't see him holding up and he's already working on his second knee injury in the last couple of years.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Even when Vick reigned it in some he still got smacked in the mouth throwing out of the pocket. I just don't see him holding up and he's already working on his second knee injury in the last couple of years.

To be fair, RGIII is bigger than Vick, has a faster release, reads defenses better and is smarter with the football.

It's when he scrambles, that's when he gets himself in trouble. But I think that's correctable.

Even if you take away all his scrambling ability, the guy has the arm strength, quick release, and accuracy to be a very good qb in the NFL. He's not dependent on his mobility, it's just an added dimension that makes him lethal.

[D-Unit]

Where is Tony Romo in this??? That dude is NEVER gonna win a SB.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Monomach

But doesn't u knowz? Teh arm strengthz is the easiest thing to fix!

I'd link to that thread, but I'm sure you saw it.

The maturity is strong in this post.

What's funny is you think it's impossible to do.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

The maturity is strong in this post.

What's funny is you think it's impossible to do.

I never once said it's impossible. Arm strength itself can be improved, but the changes are not substantial.

What's funny is that you think they are.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Monomach

I never once said it's impossible. Arm strength itself can be improved, but the changes are not substantial.

What's funny is that you think they are.

No, I fully believe that there are limitations for how much you can improve. If you're skinny and have short arms, it's gonna be way more tough on you than if you're a big guy with long arms. Obvious stuff is obvious. Lots of things are involved in it from body type, arm length, core strength, strength in your base, how you use your body to generate torque, body flexibiiltiy, throwing mechanics, brute strength and on and on. Obviously a lot of that is God given, but if you're committed to improving it there are ways to get better.

Intangibles like background/character, intelligence, competitiveness, motor, leadership, etc... if you don't got it now, it's too late to get it.

Height, speed, athleticism... you're just born with it. I put arm strength easier to improve than all of it. You keep saying that I said it was the easiest thing to do, but I never said that. Just poor comprehension on your part.

[bigbluedefense]

Character and intelligence is overrated. If you can't throw the football, I don't care if you're the smartest man in the world with the best work ethic ever. You're not gonna do **** in the NFL.

Big Ben is a moron who rapes people. He also throws lasers down the field.

Fitzmagic is a smart dude with great character and work ethic. He sucks.

So I'll take the dumb rapist who can throw lasers.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Character and intelligence is overrated. If you can't throw the football, I don't care if you're the smartest man in the world with the best work ethic ever. You're not gonna do **** in the NFL.

Big Ben is a moron who rapes people. He also throws lasers down the field.

Fitzmagic is a smart dude with great character and work ethic. He sucks.

So I'll take the dumb rapist who can throw lasers.

Haha.

I'll take Tom Brady, you take Giovanni Carmazzi. :D

This thing will spin in circles. There's every kind of bust you can think of. Character is not overrated. It's a broad term. If you relate it to gangster character then yes, that is overrated. If you relate it to competitive character, then no it's not.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

No, I fully believe that there are limitations for how much you can improve. If you're skinny and have short arms, it's gonna be way more tough on you than if you're a big guy with long arms. Obvious stuff is obvious. Lots of things are involved in it from body type, arm length, core strength, strength in your base, how you use your body to generate torque, body flexibiiltiy, throwing mechanics, brute strength and on and on. Obviously a lot of that is God given, but if you're committed to improving it there are ways to get better.

Intangibles like background/character, intelligence, competitiveness, motor, leadership, etc... if you don't got it now, it's too late to get it.

Height, speed, athleticism... you're just born with it. I put arm strength easier to improve than all of it. You keep saying that I said it was the easiest thing to do, but I never said that. Just poor comprehension on your part.

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Yeah, I can go on. Feel free support your claims for Geno as well. So far, his favorite defenses all draw down to everyone else not being the guy. Nobody likes saying he is the guy because he can do this and that.

I fully believe Barkley's game is tailor made for Andy Reid's WCO based system. He's been doing it for so long, playing for Reid would be like going to Football Graduate School for him. ...and trust me.... Kiffin's Flex WCO is sooo inferior compared to Reid's it ain't even funny. The job Kiffin is doing at USC... I mean just watch it... the plays, playcalling and product he puts out there is just yuck. He's lucky he has had talent and lucky that he's a good recruiter cause he's a bad coach.

Geno will have a much more raw start in that system. Heck, it might start as basic as taking the ball from underneath center. He already rattles under pressure... and doesn't have the frame to take the punishment either, btw... but if he has to think about his footwork instead of thinking about what's going on the field... it's gonna be tough sledding.

Barkley isn't without flaws, but the main flaw is arm strength and that is a quality that is the easiest thing a QB can fix. Plus, anyone who cared to notice knew that Barkley's arm was stronger this season. Up until this season, Barkley actually showed great improvement year to year, which was a strong trait scouts admired. I feel like he's gotten that classic "overanalyzed senior prospect" thing going against him. Obviously USC as a whole failed to live up to expectations which is another knock against him, but that should be a story more about the team than Barkley as a prospect.

"I never said it's the easiest thing he can do, but it's the easiest thing he can do."

...and you characterize it as easy enough to fix for it to justify having a weak-armed QB who can't make all of the throws come off the board first.

[jrdrylie]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Character and intelligence is overrated. If you can't throw the football, I don't care if you're the smartest man in the world with the best work ethic ever. You're not gonna do **** in the NFL.

Big Ben is a moron who rapes people. He also throws lasers down the field.

Fitzmagic is a smart dude with great character and work ethic. He sucks.

So I'll take the dumb rapist who can throw lasers.

Character and intelligence are not overrated. It's the same thing with size. Just because Russell Wilson is 5'10 and good doesn't mean that we should stop judging QBs by their size. We still want our QBs to be 6'4 because their chances of success are higher. And yes, Roethlisberger is an idiot scumbag. But we shouldn't discount character and intelligene because one guy did well. The vast majority of NFL QBs are more intelligent and better behaved than the average NFL player. Not every dumb (or short) QB will bust. There is just a vastly greater chance of a smart, high character QB succeeding.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Monomach

"I never said it's the easiest thing he can do, but it's the easiest thing he can do."

Bravo. You caught me in a post I guess, but I know what I think. There's a lot of things you can't fix, but arm strength isn't one of them.

[broncosfan]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Bravo. You caught me in a post I guess, but I know what I think. There's a lot of things you can't fix, but arm strength isn't one of them.

Little problem we can't see what you think, just what you write.

[JordanTaber]

Matt Stafford.

He's not even good. No Calvin Johnson and he's David Carr 2.0.

[JRTPlaya21]

Stafford is highly inconsistent but you give Carr a guy like Megatron and I bet the house he doesn't have a 5,000 yard/40 TD season.

[P-L]

Some people still think Andy Dalton is a franchise quarterback?

[mightytitan9]

Originally Posted by P-L

Some people still think Andy Dalton is a franchise quarterback?

More so than Matt Schaub

[mightytitan9]

Originally Posted by JordanTaber

Matt Stafford.

He's not even good. No Calvin Johnson and he's David Carr 2.0.

I don't know about that, Carr still had Andre Johnson....

[niel89]

Matt Schaub has a real good team right now. He has a fairly decent chance of winning one in the next 3-4 years to me. He might be the worst of these guys, but his team is one of the best.

[nepg]

I love Russell Wilson, but I think the size thing will catch up to him once he's no longer to be as mobile.

But Matt Schaub is the least likely. His best chance was this year. They can't get past the AFC powers. They'll never get to that level with him, it seems. The Texans are the new Chargers.

lol. I didn't see Stafford on the list. Change my pick.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

Stafford is highly inconsistent but you give Carr a guy like Megatron and I bet the house he doesn't have a 5,000 yard/40 TD season.

Is this pre- or post- Nam-level shellshock?

Post-, I agree. Pre-...he's better than Stafford.

[Pat Sims 90]

Matt Schaub and Andy Dalton are not franchise QBs so they should be excluded from this list. Dalton still has the time to become one. With that said I am going with RGIII for now unless he changes his play style if not he won't last long in this league because his knees will pretty much be shot. If RGIII does change his play style I would say Matthew Stafford just because I don't think they can win one with current ownership same thing goes for the Bengals.