Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2015 NFL Draft Forum

2015 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2015 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
gpngc
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MetLife, Clink x4, MetLife
Posts: 13,435
Reputation: 1744453
gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.gpngc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's a total myth that Chris Long was a highly regarded prospect because of his father. Like his father, Long is/was a big, strong, athletically gifted DE who was productive in college and earned multiple awards. He solidified his position by having an impressive showing at the combine
Well the thing was Dorsey was CLEARLY a better player in college and had all the tools.

I have a working theory about dominant college DTs. I've seen SO MANY be so good in college and then bust in the pros.

I think it deals with a few things:

1) Maintaining weight/staying in shape/maintaining strength. I've always said you can't predict a guy's NFL work ethic and that in order to have a good career you always need to be competing with the rest of the league in the strength and conditioning department. We can sit here and scout game film and measurables all we want but when a kid sits in that interview and says he's going to work, or his coaches say he's going to work, that all might change when he gets that paycheck or sees how difficult it's really going to be. This can happen at any position but I think with big men who look like "men among boys" (usually DTs) it happens a lot.

2) College interior linemen. Generally speaking, teams put their best OL at LT and RT. There are only a finite number of quality OL in the country and hundreds of college teams. By simple math you can see that the worst starting college OL are going to be at OG and C lining up accross from DTs. This especially applies to the difference in athleticism and size. We say 'man among boys' a lot and in some cases it really is. Obviously the big-time programs have tremendous interior linemen but can you name one Miss. St. or Texas A&M guard from the past ten years? No. Their best OL played tackle.

So then the DT gets to the NFL and half of the drafted OTs out of college he never went up again (bigger, faster, stronger) are inside, not to mention it's like an all-star team of guards/centers (the best of the best out of college). So basically DTs have feasted their entire career on IOL who were not this good. No longer is he a man among boys, his confidence may take a hit, he has to deal with adversity, and work twice as hard as he ever has to be able to compete.

Just a working theory (and it pertains to Dorsey) and maybe to Star.

EDIT: Just saw Amobi Okoye's name in another thread. He's another one.

I just feel like the game changes so drastically for DTs when they move up a level. I know the speed of the game is crazy different in the NFL but I think the level of comp. from college OGs to pro OGs is just way different. If you watch the pros a lot of times you'll see a rookie DB up against a guy he faced in college. For RBs it gets harder but it's just a speed difference. For LBs the same thing. QBs have to adjust to a lot but they are still spinning the same size ball with their same arm. Idk. Pass rushers vs. OTs is the same thing also. They've seen a lot of those matchups or at least very similar ones.

But Amobi Okoye was like a 12-year old dominating some small, slow conference USA OGs. Texans loved it. He moves to the NFL and he's got to face Larry Allen and Steve Hutchinson?

Last edited by gpngc : 02-08-2013 at 12:27 PM.
gpngc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
vidae
SWDC Mafia
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Welcome back to my ranch ya turds.
Posts: 28,440
Reputation: 8559791
vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Dorsey has never had a problem with his work ethic. The first year he was here Gunther used him incorrectly, and then a scheme change put him at 3-4 DE, where he was solid but unspectacular. I think he could still be good in a 4-3, and he'll likely be on a new team soon anyway, so hopefully they run that scheme.
__________________


** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **
vidae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
K Train
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,145
Reputation: 822914
K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

dorsey was undersized for every position hes ever played as a pro and still has been solid.

He plays 34 DE WAY better than evander hood ever has and hood has the size/length that dorsey doesnt. I viewed both players as pure UTs, and both would probably be beasts in those roles but at least dorsey has been solid
__________________
E]
K Train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,619
Reputation: 1199061
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's a total myth that Chris Long was a highly regarded prospect because of his father. Like his father, Long is/was a big, strong, athletically gifted DE who was productive in college and earned multiple awards. He solidified his position by having an impressive showing at the combine

I'm not saying Chris Long didn't earn his first round grade, because he was a dominant player in the ACC. He always made plays. But I don't think he was a 2nd overall pick in the draft type prospect. If his last name was 'Jones' I think he would have been taken at least 5-10 picks later. Just thinking out loud.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,839
Reputation: 3142226
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I'm not saying Chris Long didn't earn his first round grade, because he was a dominant player in the ACC. He always made plays. But I don't think he was a 2nd overall pick in the draft type prospect. If his last name was 'Jones' I think he would have been taken at least 5-10 picks later. Just thinking out loud.
If his last name were Werner he would probably be taken where? And i don't think Bjoern is as good as Long.

The thing with anyone projected to go in the top 5 this year is be prepared to be overly scrutinized because it isn't a good draft year at the top.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I generally agree that this player is being overrated and he's possibly not a 3 down player. people bring up Haloti Ngata who ended up a 12 pick. that's about where Star could go. Also keep in mind Ngata is awesome but gets like 3 sacks a year. Star has 6 in 4 years. Definately there are better pass rushing DT like Short, floyd and richardson. Could a team like the eagles take a nose tackle at 4? Well they could... but it doesn't seem likely. Great prospect, not a great value in top 10 (could say the same about Chance or Cooper)
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,839
Reputation: 3142226
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth96 View Post
pacific island warriors make violent defensive tackles
I saw about 5 of his games in the Pac-12 this year and i'm still looking for that violent defensive tackle.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K Train View Post
dorsey was undersized for every position hes ever played as a pro and still has been solid.

He plays 34 DE WAY better than evander hood ever has and hood has the size/length that dorsey doesnt. I viewed both players as pure UTs, and both would probably be beasts in those roles but at least dorsey has been solid
I NEVER understood the Ziggy Hood pick. Didn't seem like a fit.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I'm not saying Chris Long didn't earn his first round grade, because he was a dominant player in the ACC. He always made plays. But I don't think he was a 2nd overall pick in the draft type prospect. If his last name was 'Jones' I think he would have been taken at least 5-10 picks later. Just thinking out loud.
But who should have went ahead of him, Vernon Gholston? Glenn Dorsuck? All pros Derrick Harvey and Cedrick Ellis?? Was Keith Rivers ever worthy of the #2 overall?? The Rams had Jackson and thus didn't need McFadden. I think Long went right where he should have gone regardless of his name.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:28 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I generally agree that this player is being overrated and he's possibly not a 3 down player. people bring up Haloti Ngata who ended up a 12 pick. that's about where Star could go. Also keep in mind Ngata is awesome but gets like 3 sacks a year. Star has 6 in 4 years. Definately there are better pass rushing DT like Short, floyd and richardson. Could a team like the eagles take a nose tackle at 4? Well they could... but it doesn't seem likely. Great prospect, not a great value in top 10 (could say the same about Chance or Cooper)
Ngata was coming off a knee injury which may have had something to do with where he ended up going.

Futhermore, who is great value in the top ten of this weak draft? Star has as much value as any prospect IMO. Outside of maybe Joeckel, they are all flawed in some ways and Star is actually one of the cleanest.

Milliner- Doesn't have the long speed and didn't have to hold up in man much.

Werner- Simply not top 5 talent and for the first time in recorded history, a top white DE has some questions about motor.

Jones- Spinal Stenosis, doesn't like to lift (WTF?), not even 250 pounds, one trick pony-ish.

Moore- Can he hold up as a 4-3 DE? Doesn't have elite physical qualities.

Geno Smith- Not Luck or RG3, questions about role his WRs made in his stats, does he have true leadership qualities and come on, a black guy named Geno is just weird!

Ansah- Experience.

Mingo- Literally everthing is a question with Mingo.

Last edited by Black Bolt : 02-08-2013 at 01:39 PM.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
K Train
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 7,145
Reputation: 822914
K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.K Train is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
I NEVER understood the Ziggy Hood pick. Didn't seem like a fit.
hated it then, hate it now, really ill probably hate him forever because hes is absolutely horrid. Every year you hear something GREAT about him in TC but every year he gets blown off the ball and plays like a scared little girl

Year 1: Aaron smith says he uses his hands tremendously
Year 2: OMG Hood in 1-1s is dominating, he takes all linemen including the rookie pouncey to school
Year 3: WOW! Hood lost 30 pounds of fat and added 32 pounds of muscle using OUTER LIMIT SPORTS! He can jump onto a tire and lift a lot of new heavy things, look at his explosiveness!!!

hes so bad, probably wouldnt be a terrible NT since he can penetrate and he can play good over center, but he cant stack and shed at all and when it comes to playing DE he plays like an OLB and tries to bend the edge, but hes too slow and can simply be pushed out of the field of play

Id freakin kill for dorsey at 5 tech over hood, and dorsey is just ok lol...hopefully heyward gets the snaps this year....ill forever hate the colts for taking donald brown over hood

I think dorsey would e an excellent fit in NY or Dallas now that dallas is moving to a 43

Back to star....weve talked about him compared to ngata and suh and mccoy, what about Marcel Dareus?
__________________
E]
K Train is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,429
Reputation: 159834
Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
He is very good, but I wouldn't categorize him as dominant by any stretch as compared to him in college where he was a man amongst boys. He Looks to have gotten bigger as well.
Then you didn't watch him week in and week out, clearly. He dominated. If he's bigger its not in a bad way
Nastradamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
Then you didn't watch him week in and week out, clearly. He dominated. If he's bigger its not in a bad way
I meant bigger in a good way. And no, I did not watch him week to week, but other people did and I didn't hear anything even close to what you are saying. Doesn't me he didn't play well, but if he did, his play didn't catch on. Plus, wasn't he hurt for a portion of the year?

Speaking of DTs who played well under the radar, our FA Desmond Bryant was a complete animal the last several games of the year when Seymour sat out. I am hoping like well we re-sign him, even before Philip Wheeler.
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Futhermore, who is great value in the top ten of this weak draft? Star has as much value as any prospect IMO. Outside of maybe Joeckel, they are all flawed in some ways and Star is actually one of the cleanest.
i agree 100% and really like Star as a prospect, wherever he gets drafted.

the question is how does the pick get justified by the team to the media and the fans. What production can they point to? If it's sacks that's easy. They draft a guy he gets 10 sacks, great pick.

but iF they draft star and his job is to occupy blockers or generally "make the defense tougher" how is that pick seen by the media? It's really hard without impact plays.

The question is Star is gonna produce 5.5 sacks a year like Marcel Dareus? If not he's more like a Vince Wilfork and guys like that go in the teens usually. and that's fine. he won't get past Carolina. Top 10 is usually big upside for big plays.

Yes the other guys have questions, but the other guys also have potential. If Mingo becomes Javon Kearse for a couple years that's gonna make bigger headlines than if Star moves the defense from 25th against the run to 15th.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,429
Reputation: 159834
Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I'm not saying Chris Long didn't earn his first round grade, because he was a dominant player in the ACC. He always made plays. But I don't think he was a 2nd overall pick in the draft type prospect. If his last name was 'Jones' I think he would have been taken at least 5-10 picks later. Just thinking out loud.
THat seems like an odd thing to say about a guy who has worked out to be worth a #2 pick.
Nastradamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,429
Reputation: 159834
Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
i agree 100% and really like Star as a prospect, wherever he gets drafted.

the question is how does the pick get justified by the team to the media and the fans. What production can they point to? If it's sacks that's easy. They draft a guy he gets 10 sacks, great pick.

but iF they draft star and his job is to occupy blockers or generally "make the defense tougher" how is that pick seen by the media? It's really hard without impact plays.

The question is Star is gonna produce 5.5 sacks a year like Marcel Dareus? If not he's more like a Vince Wilfork and guys like that go in the teens usually. and that's fine. he won't get past Carolina. Top 10 is usually big upside for big plays.

Yes the other guys have questions, but the other guys also have potential. If Mingo becomes Javon Kearse for a couple years that's gonna make bigger headlines than if Star moves the defense from 25th against the run to 15th.
I think a team like Jacksonville could see a lot of benefits from him freeing up guys like Babin,Mincey and Branch. That would help show his impact a bit. You talk about him like he's a run stuffing NT, but he's more of a disruptive, classic DT. He might not get sacks, but he'll draw doubles and collapse the pocket. I'm not sure if he does that more than Richardson and Floyd just yet, but he's not Terrance Cody or something.
Nastradamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,103
Reputation: 143066
Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
i agree 100% and really like Star as a prospect, wherever he gets drafted.

the question is how does the pick get justified by the team to the media and the fans. What production can they point to? If it's sacks that's easy. They draft a guy he gets 10 sacks, great pick.

but iF they draft star and his job is to occupy blockers or generally "make the defense tougher" how is that pick seen by the media? It's really hard without impact plays.

The question is Star is gonna produce 5.5 sacks a year like Marcel Dareus? If not he's more like a Vince Wilfork and guys like that go in the teens usually. and that's fine. he won't get past Carolina. Top 10 is usually big upside for big plays.

Yes the other guys have questions, but the other guys also have potential. If Mingo becomes Javon Kearse for a couple years that's gonna make bigger headlines than if Star moves the defense from 25th against the run to 15th.
But suppose Star becomes Kris Jenkins?
Black Bolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,939
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I'm not saying Chris Long didn't earn his first round grade, because he was a dominant player in the ACC. He always made plays. But I don't think he was a 2nd overall pick in the draft type prospect. If his last name was 'Jones' I think he would have been taken at least 5-10 picks later. Just thinking out loud.
Do you just not remember him coming out, or what? He improved every year in college til he was ACC DPOY as a senior with 14 sacks and 19 TFL. The Wikipedia part is easy. But I remember people saying he was just an effort player, that he had a high motor but wasn't super explosive, and then he came into the combine built like a fire hydrant at 6'3" 272 and blew up all the drills. It's not just that his 10-yard split of 1.53 is explosive for any position, but he looked extremely flexible and fluid, and if I remember correctly even worked out in linebacker drills and didn't look out of place at all. So you get a kid with bloodlines, great production, great effort, and then he tests out of the ballpark and yeah, he's a perfectly legitimate #2 overall pick, whatever his last name. I don't see Jackie Slater or Walter Peyton's kids getting overdrafted. Scouts know what they're looking at.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
I think a team like Jacksonville could see a lot of benefits from him freeing up guys like Babin,Mincey and Branch. That would help show his impact a bit. You talk about him like he's a run stuffing NT, but he's more of a disruptive, classic DT. He might not get sacks, but he'll draw doubles and collapse the pocket. I'm not sure if he does that more than Richardson and Floyd just yet, but he's not Terrance Cody or something.
I agree with all of this, the question is "drawing doubles" and "collapsing the pocket" worth the 2 overall pick. Historically, that's not been the case.

He did actually produce 5 sacks this year, in the Pac12. If he can be a 5 sack a year DT than sure that's like Marcel Dareus. Overall I agree he's a super clean prospect and should be a very high selection. All im saying is I can forsee a scenario where he drops a couple slots out of the top 10.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
But suppose Star becomes Kris Jenkins?
fair enough and it could happen. remember that Gerard Warren was the big DT that year, Kris was a second rounder. Not saying that Star is warren, just that big DT high can bite ya.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,839
Reputation: 3142226
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
I agree with all of this, the question is "drawing doubles" and "collapsing the pocket" worth the 2 overall pick. Historically, that's not been the case.

He did actually produce 5 sacks this year, in the Pac12. If he can be a 5 sack a year DT than sure that's like Marcel Dareus. Overall I agree he's a super clean prospect and should be a very high selection. All im saying is I can forsee a scenario where he drops a couple slots out of the top 10.
5 sacks in the Pac-12 probably translates to about 2 in the NFL based purely from a talent standpoint.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
hockey619
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,152
Reputation: 309042
hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hockey619 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Do you just not remember him coming out, or what? He improved every year in college til he was ACC DPOY as a senior with 14 sacks and 19 TFL. The Wikipedia part is easy. But I remember people saying he was just an effort player, that he had a high motor but wasn't super explosive, and then he came into the combine built like a fire hydrant at 6'3" 272 and blew up all the drills. It's not just that his 10-yard split of 1.53 is explosive for any position, but he looked extremely flexible and fluid, and if I remember correctly even worked out in linebacker drills and didn't look out of place at all. So you get a kid with bloodlines, great production, great effort, and then he tests out of the ballpark and yeah, he's a perfectly legitimate #2 overall pick, whatever his last name. I don't see Jackie Slater or Walter Peyton's kids getting overdrafted. Scouts know what they're looking at.

for long, it was discussed a lot leading up to the draft where he would play. The consensus was that he was extremely versatile but the questions were where he would fit best.

34 backer, 34 end, 43 end, and some talk of UT in a 4-3 at least in nickel D. remember he came into the combine a little lighter than expected leaner really, the thought was that he could easily bulk up to 290+ leaving him room to play pretty much anywhere.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper/JBCX/Bixby View Post
Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
hockey619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seahawks Diaspora
Posts: 4,939
Reputation: 1586928
Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Caulibflower is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
for long, it was discussed a lot leading up to the draft where he would play. The consensus was that he was extremely versatile but the questions were where he would fit best.

34 backer, 34 end, 43 end, and some talk of UT in a 4-3 at least in nickel D. remember he came into the combine a little lighter than expected leaner really, the thought was that he could easily bulk up to 290+ leaving him room to play pretty much anywhere.
Right, that's what I'm saying. He was like a better version of Melvin Ingram.
Caulibflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
Hall of Famer
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Not Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,203
Reputation: 2474011
nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nobodyinparticular is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's a total myth that Chris Long was a highly regarded prospect because of his father. Like his father, Long is/was a big, strong, athletically gifted DE who was productive in college and earned multiple awards. He solidified his position by having an impressive showing at the combine
Keep in mind the other part of Long's prospect status was his rather underwhelming career at UVA until his senior year. Up until his final year in college, Long was hovering around 280 or 290 lbs and his role was primarily to occupy blocks. People would tune in to see Howie's son and come away unimpressed. His final year, he dropped some weight, became a little kore mobile and Al Groh cut him loose to make plays on his own. And Long ended up proving he could get to the QB by racking up 14 sacks.

After proving he had the the physical tools at the Combine to match the tape, he was very much a top 3 pick. But when Long was sitting at the higher weight and playing in a more subdued role (to allow Ahmad Brooks to make plays) I can see why people would think Long was only highly respected because if his last name.
__________________

Oldie but a goodie.
nobodyinparticular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
nycdan
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Reputation: 6
nycdan hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
fair enough and it could happen. remember that Gerard Warren was the big DT that year, Kris was a second rounder. Not saying that Star is warren, just that big DT high can bite ya.
DT has been a very boom-or-bust position high in the draft. But man, if you could get a Kris Jenkins kind of player with healthy knees, that WOULD be worth the #2 pick to many teams IMO in this draft. It's just that it's a big 'if'.
nycdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.