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Old 02-08-2013, 07:02 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Someone explain something to me please.

Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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There has never as far as I'm aware been an injury to a QB at the Senior Bowl. Even if there has the chances of one happening are extremely slim.

So what were the risks? Maybe that he'd fail to separate from the other guys?

If he was the clear-cut best QB with the clear-cut best film, it would make some sense (even then there's no real reason to skip), but given his situation it's pretty scary that he didn't go there and throw. Probably feared he'd be exposed in an uncomfortable environment (under center, new receivers, pro verbiage). Otherwise why not just show up and take control, spin it like you know can and blow everybody else out of the water. A "strategic move?" Ugh.
When you have more to lose than you have to gain, it's not worth going. It's as simple as that.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Someone explain something to me please.

Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
That's why I think it's hilarious that people say he's not worth the #1 pick but then they mock him to the Raiders/Eagles/Cardinals. Doesn't make any sense. Like you said, you're still banking on him to be your franchise guy anywhere in the first round.

Take the #1 pick off the pedestal.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Someone explain something to me please.

Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
Why did Reid take Kolb at 36 and not 26?

Why did Newsome take Flacco at 18 but not 12?

Why did the Bengals take Green at 6 then Dalton at 30something?

Why did the Niners take Smith at 7 and Kaep at 30something?

Why did SEA take Wilson in the 3rd, not the 2nd?

Teams do think that way, even if they shouldn't.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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They already said why they didn't go to the Senior Bowl, and you want to keep putting words and reasons into why he didn't go.

He didn't need to separate himself from the other guys because there's already a separation there. They had the opportunity to maybe close the gap, but all of them just made it wider.

Now Geno got an extra week or so of actual work and getting better in than they did so when he finally works out for a team, they'll see how much better he is than those other guys and also how much he's improved since the season ended.

Geno said he wants to start from Day 1, so another reason to have gone to IMG and skipped the Senior Bowl is to do what NFL players are doing to get ready for the upcoming season.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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When you have more to lose than you have to gain, it's not worth going. It's as simple as that.
Well then we disagree about where he stood at that time. And with all the reports coming out, I think he had way more to gain than to lose (assuming he actually could have out-performed everyone there).

But it only takes one team I suppose.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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They already said why they didn't go to the Senior Bowl, and you want to keep putting words and reasons into why he didn't go.

He didn't need to separate himself from the other guys because there's already a separation there. They had the opportunity to maybe close the gap, but all of them just made it wider.

Now Geno got an extra week or so of actual work and getting better in than they did so when he finally works out for a team, they'll see how much better he is than those other guys and also how much he's improved since the season ended.

Geno said he wants to start from Day 1, so another reason to have gone to IMG and skipped the Senior Bowl is to do what NFL players are doing to get ready for the upcoming season.
Yeah this is where the disconnect is. To me and that AFC exec it's a total crapshoot at QB and not one stands out above the rest and they all have flaws. To the Geno-supporters it's clearly him and has been for a while.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Why did Reid take Kolb at 36 and not 26?

Why did Newsome take Flacco at 18 but not 12?

Why did the Bengals take Green at 6 then Dalton at 30something?

Why did the Niners take Smith at 7 and Kaep at 30something?

Why did SEA take Wilson in the 3rd, not the 2nd?

Teams do think that way, even if they shouldn't.
None of those teams HAD to draft QBs those years.

Philly had McNabb and there were no teams looking to draft QB in a position to grab Kolb (plus, the difference between QB money in the first and second was much different back then).
Baltimore has proven they can throw anyone out there with that defense.
Cincy still was trying to get Palmer to stay.
SF had Smith.
Seattle had Flynn
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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None of those teams HAD to draft QBs those years.

Philly had McNabb and there were no teams looking to draft QB in a position to grab Kolb (plus, the difference between QB money in the first and second was much different back then).
Baltimore has proven they can throw anyone out there with that defense.
Cincy still was trying to get Palmer to stay.
SF had Smith.
Seattle had Flynn
Those aren't bad points except for Baltimore and Cincy.

And Cincy simply had to take A.J. Green because he was just too good to pass up unless there was an Andrew Luck in the class. Which is interesting because there is no A.J. Green in this class.

If A.J. Green was in this class, would the Chiefs fans want him over Geno?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Those aren't bad points except for Baltimore and Cincy.

And Cincy simply had to take A.J. Green because he was just too good to pass up unless there was an Andrew Luck in the class. Which is interesting because there is no A.J. Green in this class.

If A.J. Green was in this class, would the Chiefs fans want him over Geno?
No.

And, despite it working out, I still don't think the Bengals should have drafted Green over Locker, Mallet, or Gabbert. There were 5 full-on franchise-level QB prospects in that class (including Kaepernick). Geno is a better prospect than Gabbert was and is more proven than Locker.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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No.

And, despite it working out, I still don't think the Bengals should have drafted Green over Locker, Mallet, or Gabbert. There were 5 full-on franchise-level QB prospects in that class.
Wow. Interesting. Credit you for the honesty.

To me I think part of the Chiefs fans defending Geno so much is that there really isn't a blue-chip Von Miller, A.J. Green, Jadaveon Clowney, Calvin Johnson-type prospect at the top of this class.

If there was, they'd be all in on that player, and fine with exploring other avenues for a QB (33, trade, or *gasp* stop-gap then developmental guy(s) and possibly have to delay until next year).
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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None of those teams HAD to draft QBs those years.
None of em had 1st overall picks those years either. I think SF or Cincy easily takes Cam Newton as does Seattle take Andrew Luck or RG3. I very much see Baltimore drafting Matt Ryan. The only team that probably wouldn't have taken a QB is Philly who'd have likely equipped McNabb with Calvin Johnson instead of drafting Jamarcus Russell.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Do you think Geno is a stronger prospect than Kevin Kolb was in '07?
Why? What's your point? Kolb was taken in Round 2 anyways and was never discussed as the #1 overall pick.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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None of em had 1st overall picks those years either. I think SF or Cincy easily takes Cam Newton as does Seattle take Andrew Luck or RG3. I very much see Baltimore drafting Matt Ryan. The only team that probably wouldn't have taken a QB is Philly who'd have likely equipped McNabb with Calvin Johnson instead of drafting Jamarcus Russell.
I think the best comparison is the Matt Ryan year (and even that's questionable). But Newton, Luck - they are on a different level. Of course the Chiefs would and should draft those guys 1 if one of those guys was in this class.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Why? What's your point? Kolb was taken in Round 2 anyways and was never discussed as the #1 overall pick.
I'm asking for YOUR opinion. Not anyone else's or where Kolb was taken. The question again - Do you think Geno is a stronger prospect than Kevin Kolb was in '07?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Someone explain something to me please.

Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
I think it's because that pick is worth a lot. So savvy draft experts would prefer to move down in the draft, pick up more picks and still get their guy later in the draft instead of reaching and taking him at 1. Add the fact that NFL insiders call the QB class a "crapshoot", makes you think that even if you didn't get your top guy, the drop off is not back breaking if you ended up with another guy. Plus you get the additional players from the additional picks which could more than offset the loss.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Wow. Interesting. Credit you for the honesty.

To me I think part of the Chiefs fans defending Geno so much is that there really isn't a blue-chip Von Miller, A.J. Green, Jadaveon Clowney, Calvin Johnson-type prospect at the top of this class.

If there was, they'd be all in on that player, and fine with exploring other avenues for a QB (33, trade, or *gasp* stop-gap then developmental guy(s) and possibly have to delay until next year).
Bingo, you hit it on the head.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I'm asking for YOUR opinion. Not anyone else's or where Kolb was taken. The question again - Do you think Geno is a stronger prospect than Kevin Kolb was in '07?
I had very little faith in Kolb as a pro prospect. One of those names that was out there getting hype that I just shrugged off at. I laughed when the Eagles ended up taking him, because they traded down and got him with the pick Dallas gave them. Dallas traded with them to move up and take Anthony Spencer.

I think Geno can be better than him.

So now what's the point you've been building up at? That Reid can coach up Geno?

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Old 02-08-2013, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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The #1 pick is not "worth a lot".. and that is the problem. Some of you put that pick on a pedestal and make it out to be more than it is. How much more valuable do you think it is than #2? Or #10?

There is a mystique about the #1 pick that just isn't true. Busting with the #1 pick isn't any worse than busting with the #32 pick. There is literally no difference except for money, and with the wage scale the way it is, the difference (to NFL teams) is minimal.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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This thread is exhausting.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
mqtirishfan
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
These picks aren't in a vacuum, though. Saying Geno is worth picking at 20, but not at 1, implies that if the Chiefs were to draft him at 20, they'd either be given a package of picks to trade down or would be trading up after taking someone else more worthy of the top pick. If the player clearly isn't a good value at #1, but you prefer him, it makes much more sense to trade down and get some more assets in the process of picking him. There's some risk involved, but you have to be mindful of value, even if it's not the value that draftniks place on the prospects.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Is Geno really that far ahead of every one else? I don't think the gap is nearly as big as you guys think it is. I wouldn't be completely shocked if Reid went with a different QB. Geno isn't a blue chip perfect prospect. He might have been the 4th best QB prospect in last years draft.

I understand why he didn't go to the Senior Bowl. He had more to lose by going and possibly not doing well than just staying put as the probable #1 QB. It would have been nice to see him go out there and solidify himself as #1 and to prove that he is a franchise type of guy. If he goes out there and looks very good instead of amazing it would have hurt his stock.

Missing the pick at #1 is much different than missing the pick at #32. At #1 have your pick of any player in the draft. Busting at #1 isn't about the money; it's about the missed opportunity. This draft doesn't seem to have those can't miss great players up top so the #1 isn't as valuable as usual. Busting with Jamarcus Russell instead of taking Calvin Johnson is much worse than missing on a player at #32.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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This thread is exhausting.
Yuuuuup. I'm done. It was fun while it lasted. Good luck Chiefs. It's not the worst thing in the world. Not the greatest, but not the worst.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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its funny to see all the love for geno. seriously, the guy looks pretty bad to me, bad pocket presence no feel for it at all, spotty accuracy (especially into tight windows) and he makes some really head scratching decisions. Throws into double coverage when he has five recievers (meaning everyone else is in single coverage = he didnt find the safety at all). to me it looks like he decides pre snap where he is going with the ball pretty often.

i wouldnt touch him, reid is a qb guy but there are some things in geno's game that are really bad signs for him going to the pro level. deciding where hes going pre snap is usually a tough habit to break for guys.



EDIT:
thinking about it more, i wonder if some of you KC guys are trying to talk yourselves into him. because the more i watch, the more puzzling it is. hes got a solid arm, no doubt. but after that its all down hill. KC guys, what are you seeing when you watch him that has you all excited? cause im not excited for you haha sorry.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Someone explain something to me please.

Why is it ok to draft Geno 20 overall but not 1? If he busts, then he's not a good selection anywhere in the draft. If you think he'll be successful, then why not draft him 1 overall? I don't get it.

He's either a franchise qb to you or he's not. If he's not good enough to take #1 I don't understand how taking him at 20 is somehow acceptable.
I always had a hard time trying to explain this stance, but this is how I feel. If I'm comfortable taking him anywhere in the first round, I'm comfortable taking him number 1.

I'm not comfortable taking any of them 1st, so I wouldn't take any in round one. Hopefully whoever they take ends up progressing and making the pick worth it, because I really like the Chiefs team.
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