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Old 02-08-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
Justone2
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I really think he isn't a different player compared to his first season only he didn't get the turnovers which is a big part of him. Can't really rely on him in coverage but i think him and Goldson have a great connection and he is the leader of the secondary since he came in and made Goldson play better. I would however search for a safety that can replace him in the draft and let him go after his contract runs out.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:12 AM    (permalink
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I don't mean to be rude, but can we please discuss the question I asked? Again, what your thoughts on Whitner being our starting safety?
Whitner gets a bad rap from fans becaus they dont understand a lot of the coverages and how other ppl's miscues leave him in no man's land. Like the Boldin TD. That was Bowman responsibility. He had him in man coverage. Now I will say maybe Whit should have been cheating more to Bowman's side to help because a ILB covering a Boldin is obviously a mis-match. But he also had Torrey Smith on the outside, in press coverage so he had to me mindful to give Cully some help also. But this is the same Bowman that successfully defended a pass intended for Roddy White to get us to the SB. Point blank, it was Bowman's responsiblity and he got beat. So the question I ask, is it Whit's fault or Fangio for constantly thinking his LBs can hold up against premier WRs in coverage? Because as a safety, you really can't be two places at once.

Then look at the Pitta TD. Its was zone coverage, Pitta found the soft spot. Flaaco started to scramble a little and threw the ball where only his guy can get it. You live with those plays if ask me. Its not like Pitta was completely open and Whither blew a coverage. And nobody noticed three Niner defenders scrambling to the corner of the endzone because they were reading the rollout and were virtually defending air. That left Whit to defend more space in the middle as they drifted out. Point blank, there are holes in a zone for a reason.

So those two TDs go on Whit in the stats books, but if you diagnosing each play it wasn't him playing badly, just him being put in a precarious position. One by a scheme standpoint and one by a scramble drill in which some defenders vacated a zone and hung him out to dry.

And then take into account some of the TD catches where he's been perfect position to only be beaten by a insane throw and catch by a TE(Miami game and Vikes game come to mind) and I think its a case where I think the stats are misleading. That's why some stats need to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes you have to watch things in the moment to really gauage who's at fault for a particular play.

For my money, I think Whit's one of the better strong safties in the league. People always say he's a laibility coverage but they don't understand we only gave up 2 TD over 40 yards and 1 rec over 50 yards ALL YEAR. And all three of those plays had nothing to do with Whit. You don't finish 3rd in passing defense with a liability at SS. Whit is a very underrated athlete. A explosive athlete. He's the fastest safety on the roster...by a wide margin. At 208 lbs, he runs a 4.40 40. This guy runs down WRs from behind to save sure TDs(Amendola in the Rams game). He closes so fast on the ball....sometimes too fast and doesn't get his weight under him, which forces him to lunge and miss tackles but hopefully he'll work this off-season on closing under control more. He gets to spots in a hurry and brings violence when he gets there. Wasn't the sure tackler every game like we saw in 2011 but he's solid for the most part and hopefully he regains that 2011 form next year. Whit is defintely not the problem when it comes to our defense. And NO, I'm not bais because he happens to be in my sign. I thought Whit should have been a Pro Bowler in 2011, before I ever got this sign. I think ppl looked at his ints and didn't give him his just due that year.

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Old 02-09-2013, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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I think Whitner played alright this past season, but not great. I don't think we have a better option at replacing him, so I think he should stay at his current role of SS. Personally I wish we could have someone like an Ed Reed or Kenny Easley back there, but those guys only come once in a generation.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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I think Whitner played alright this past season, but not great. I don't think we have a better option at replacing him, so I think he should stay at his current role of SS. Personally I wish we could have someone like an Ed Reed or Kenny Easley back there, but those guys only come once in a generation.
You do realize those guys are both FS right? Every team would like the Ed Reed from a couple of years ago but how realistic is that? Whit wasn't as solid as he was in 2011 but the drop off wasn't that significant where ppl should be panicking. Like I've said repaeatedly, they actually improved their pass ranking defensively from the previous year. Its was the run defense that took a dive. And as far as the Falcons and the Ravens game and the yards given up via the pass, those were more on the CBs and our scheme that employed LBs to routinely try to run with WRs. If ppl want the pass defense to come up big when it matters the most...in the playoffs, they need to improve the depth of the guys on the edges so they aren't as worn down at the end of the year and match-up better against these mutiple WR sets and stop having Bowman and Willis on the field trying to defense against 4 WRs. There's a reason Aldon's lack of sacks and our increase in passing yards given up happend to coinecide. And I understand Aldon is a linebacker, but you can't convince me that your best pass-rusher needs to be out over a WR or TE in slot, in coverage instead of with his hand in the ground, inline, trying to get to the QB. This happened too many times in the SB and I don't see how this does anything but help the offense, not us. If your keep two ILBs on the field, then why is your primer pass-rusher over the slot? Its looks cute but you need to let Aldon do what he does best.....rush the passer.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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You do realize those guys are both FS right? Every team would like the Ed Reed from a couple of years ago but how realistic is that? Whit wasn't as solid as he was in 2011 but the drop off wasn't that significant where ppl should be panicking. Like I've said repaeatedly, they actually improved their pass ranking defensively from the previous year. Its was the run defense that took a dive. And as far as the Falcons and the Ravens game and the yards given up via the pass, those were more on the CBs and our scheme that employed LBs to routinely try to run with WRs. If ppl want the pass defense to come up big when it matters the most...in the playoffs, they need to improve the depth of the guys on the edges so they aren't as worn down at the end of the year and match-up better against these mutiple WR sets and stop having Bowman and Willis on the field trying to defense against 4 WRs. There's a reason Aldon's lack of sacks and our increase in passing yards given up happend to coinecide. And I understand Aldon is a linebacker, but you can't convince me that your best pass-rusher needs to be out over a WR or TE in slot, in coverage instead of with his hand in the ground, inline, trying to get to the QB. This happened too many times in the SB and I don't see how this does anything but help the offense, not us. If your keep two ILBs on the field, then why is your primer pass-rusher over the slot? Its looks cute but you need to let Aldon do what he does best.....rush the passer.
Yeah I know. I would assume Goldson would have a position switch if we had someone like a Reed or Easley back there. I think Goldson is more suited for SS anyways. That being said there were a few years I believe that Ed Reed was playing SS and still excelled at it for the Ravens.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Like I have said for two years, its more about the play calling than it is the players.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Like I have said for two years, its more about the play calling than it is the players.
I see what your saying but the players are the ones who got behind 28-6 and 17-0. As much I get baffled with Fangio and Roman at times, there were enough blown assignments, missed tackles, bad angles to ball carriers, illegal formations, dropped passes, bad passes and late reads when good calls were made. My point is when you get into the post-season and the stakes are higher, the coaches need to have their A game just like the players. I had been pleased with Roman during the playoffs....excpet for some red-zone calls and those last 4 plays in the SB. Fangio had been playing with fire ever since the Packers game.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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OK guys, I'm finally ready to post in the Niner forum again. It was too painful and I was grieving. But hey, as I discovered over the past two months, apparently my grieving process involves defiling women so I needed some "grieving time." Mission accomplished.

My thoughts on the game: we deserved to lose. You can't make that many mistakes in a Super Bowl and expect to win. If they could do the last 4 plays over again, I would have run Gore/Kaep out of pistol at least 3 times with one shot over the middle. Fade was a poor idea.

And I don't feel the refs "screwed" us. You can't put it in their hands. We lost. Pretty great season though. Don't forget the hell we went through for the past decade.

On the safeties topic, I want both Whit and Goldy back. Have you guys seen the safety-play throughout the league? It's awful. We are lucky to have those guys.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Borat is alive. Good.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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OK guys, I'm finally ready to post in the Niner forum again. It was too painful and I was grieving. But hey, as I discovered over the past two months, apparently my grieving process involves defiling women so I needed some "grieving time." Mission accomplished.

My thoughts on the game: we deserved to lose. You can't make that many mistakes in a Super Bowl and expect to win. If they could do the last 4 plays over again, I would have run Gore/Kaep out of pistol at least 3 times with one shot over the middle. Fade was a poor idea.

And I don't feel the refs "screwed" us. You can't put it in their hands. We lost. Pretty great season though. Don't forget the hell we went through for the past decade.

On the safeties topic, I want both Whit and Goldy back. Have you guys seen the safety-play throughout the league? It's awful. We are lucky to have those guys.
My agreement in bold with all the things you noted above. Glad you're back. Let's have a great offseason and Draft, re-load and do it all again.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Anybody hear rumor of a 3 team trade with KC and CLE that would move Alex to CLE and Weeden to KC?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Would be great for Alex but i really don't think the Chiefs will do that.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:32 AM    (permalink
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Anybody hear rumor of a 3 team trade with KC and CLE that would move Alex to CLE and Weeden to KC?
Never heard of that. Sounds like a ridiculous rumor. Three way trades usually don't happen in the NFL. And I don't see the Browns deciding to get rid of Weeden after one year. Even with a new coach coming into town.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:25 AM    (permalink
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yeah seems like B.S. to me too, haven't seen the rumor on any other site.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:43 AM    (permalink
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What are some West Coast Offense teams that are in need of a QB? Those are the teams I feel we can trade Alex to.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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I don't think the system is going to matter with Alex compared to the quality of coaches and players around him. He's probably going to need a good team and organization to sustain success like he did here in San Francisco. If he goes to Cleveland or Kansas City I think he'll struggle.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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CLE has been mentioned the most these past couple weeks due to the Norv Turner connection.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the system is going to matter with Alex compared to the quality of coaches and players around him. He's probably going to need a good team and organization to sustain success like he did here in San Francisco. If he goes to Cleveland or Kansas City I think he'll struggle.
Its not a orgainizational dilemma, its coaching. A guy like Andy Reid should be enticing for Alex. His track record for getting the most out of QBs is excellent. And being that he had some success with Norv already and Chud is regarded as one of the up and comers as far as offensive coaching, Cleveland makes a lot of sense too. I think Alex could thrive in either spot. As long as good offensive coaching is in place, Alex should do well. Though I think Cleveland lacks the any real threat in the receiving corps so expectations there might have to be muted to a certain extent.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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I see what your saying but the players are the ones who got behind 28-6 and 17-0. As much I get baffled with Fangio and Roman at times, there were enough blown assignments, missed tackles, bad angles to ball carriers, illegal formations, dropped passes, bad passes and late reads when good calls were made. My point is when you get into the post-season and the stakes are higher, the coaches need to have their A game just like the players. I had been pleased with Roman during the playoffs....excpet for some red-zone calls and those last 4 plays in the SB. Fangio had been playing with fire ever since the Packers game.
A lot of the problems on the field are due to the play calling. Sometimes, Roman and Fangio make things too complicated and thats when mistakes happen. And all anyone has to do is look at the last four plays of the Super Bowl. We're a power running football team and with first and goal at the 7 (or was it the 5?, I forgot), we pass four straight times. I still cant believe that we did that. It's almost like Harbaugh and Roman wanted Kaepernick to be the one that scored the TD (via pass) since they have been riding him since the Bears game. I have no complaints with being more aggressive and pass more but not when you're inside the 10 yard line. There's little room to pass inside the 10 and with Gore, James and even Dixon, I dont get it. I'm still baffled by that. Horrible play calling at the worst possible time is what kills this team the most followed by other stuff that I mentioned in a previous post. The play calling always seems to be the opposite of what it should be and it just doesnt make any sense.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Smith will be in CLE or KC in 2013. I'll be shocked if its anywhere else and I see him being released a sopposed to traded. Not going to get more than a late round draft pick and to be honest, Smith at the very least deserves to decide where he wants to play in 2013 as opposed to making the team decide for him. And no, I dont see him going to ARZ at all.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Its not a orgainizational dilemma, its coaching. A guy like Andy Reid should be enticing for Alex. His track record for getting the most out of QBs is excellent. And being that he had some success with Norv already and Chud is regarded as one of the up and comers as far as offensive coaching, Cleveland makes a lot of sense too. I think Alex could thrive in either spot. As long as good offensive coaching is in place, Alex should do well. Though I think Cleveland lacks the any real threat in the receiving corps so expectations there might have to be muted to a certain extent.
Well if you have a bad organization you aren't going to have good coaches. And let's be real here, during the majority of Smith's career here the 49ers were a terribly run organization in terms of who they brought in to "help" Alex Smith and what not. The rosters of the mid 2000's were terrible. Coaching can only go so far when you have nothing in the cupboard to work with.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Well if you have a bad organization you aren't going to have good coaches. And let's be real here, during the majority of Smith's career here the 49ers were a terribly run organization in terms of who they brought in to "help" Alex Smith and what not. The rosters of the mid 2000's were terrible. Coaching can only go so far when you have nothing in the cupboard to work with.
What I'm saying is Andy Reid and Norv are good offensive coaches. Their teams overall may not be great next season but those guys, from a QB perspective, give Alex a chance to do his job to the best of his ability. As a QB, you can't worry who the front-office brought in to play defense. You have to worry about doing your job and if I'm Alex, I'm looking more at coaching to help me get that done, more so than who's the owner and who's the GM. And it starts with having competent coaching in place. KC and Cleveland both seem to have that offensively. If Alex has a good year offensively but the Browns only win 7 games because of poor defense and lack of talent offensively, that's not on Alex. There aren't but so many openings on teams with offensive head coaches. If he wants a chance at playing on a contender than he might have to settle for not so good offensive coaching. If he wants good offensive coaching, he's probably going to a team with little talent at the moment.

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Old 02-10-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Smith will be in CLE or KC in 2013. I'll be shocked if its anywhere else and I see him being released a sopposed to traded. Not going to get more than a late round draft pick and to be honest, Smith at the very least deserves to decide where he wants to play in 2013 as opposed to making the team decide for him. And no, I dont see him going to ARZ at all.
With as much money as Smith has received from us I really don't think we owe him anything. I think a 4th or 5th round pick is a worse case scenario and that's nothing to sneeze at. Alex can go play in Siberia for all I care if it means we get an extra draft pick.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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What I'm saying is Andy Reid and Norv are good offensive coaches. Their teams overall may not be great next season but those guys, from a QB perspective, give Alex a chance to do his job to the best of his ability. As a QB, you can't worry who the front-office brought in to play defense. You have to worry about doing your job and if I'm Alex, I'm looking more at coaching to help me get that done, more so than who's the owner and who's the GM. And it starts with having competent coaching in place. KC and Cleveland both seem to have that offensively. If Alex has a good year offensively but the Browns only win 7 games because of poor defense and lack of talent offensively, that's not on Alex. There aren't but so many openings on teams with offensive head coaches. If he wants a chance at playing on a contender than he might have to settle for not so good offensive coaching. If he wants good offensive coaching, he's probably going to a team with little talent at the moment.
I'm not really a believer in that approach. Bill Parcells once said "They want you to cook the dinner; at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries. Okay?" I think you need to let creative people do their thing. As long as it translates to winning. It's kind of like a movie studio meddling in the affairs of a director that has a specific vision for the project and is vetoed halfway down the line. If you know what your role is going in that's different of course. At the end of the day the head coach is the head coach and all facets of his team need to be working and helping the team win. If they aren't he is going to get fired.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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A good cook can cook dinner without doing his own groceries. Its just a two way thing. Its just a two way tie. A good coach can make players players better even if they don't perfectly fit there scheme. On the other hand he would be better when they fit his scheme perfect but like the chiefs had some awefull coaching and in my eyes sure ain't the worst roster in the league.
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