Official Draft Discussion Thread - Page 16

Triumphdog · 02-05-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brothgar

Is there any chance that Chance Warmack falls to the mid 20s and we trade up?

Lions (Mayhew) have been very aggressive with trading UP from the 2nd or 3rd round when talent slips (Jahvid Best/Mikel LeShoure). I say YES...and I would expect them to trade up somewhere between 18-32 if someone they like slips. Being at 36 will not cost THAT much to move up...

Scotty D · 02-05-2013, 08:16 PM

Think it would mess up Reiff to put him at RG? It'd get our best 5 out there. Still would have to re-sign Gosder though for that to happen. DE is about to become a HUGE need. I mean, you could see it coming but if/when Avril walks they are going to have Willie Young and ...Ronnell Lewis? Lawrence Jackson is a free agent. Maybe they could bring in Jason Babin for cheap. He had a lot of success in the wide nine under Jim Washburn. I could easily see him signing here.

detroit4life · 02-05-2013, 10:50 PM

I do not want Fischer at all. I agree with Triumphdog completely. This guy has done nothing to help his stock yet for some reason he is now a top ten pick?

Even if he performs close to Joeckel at the combine. OT isn't that much of a need to make a reach for one. The only reason I wouldn't mind Joeckel is because he grades out in the tier of Kalil and Long and other elites. That is a talent I wouldn't pass up. If the opportunity isn't there take the stud DE or CB.

I think there is a small shot that Chance Warmack falls to late teens. As much as I like him, with Cooper and Warford to most likely be there I wouldn't want to trade too many picks.

Brothgar · 02-05-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit4life

I do not want Fischer at all. I agree with Triumphdog completely. This guy has done nothing to help his stock yet for some reason he is now a top ten pick?

Even if he performs close to Joeckel at the combine. OT isn't that much of a need to make a reach for one. The only reason I wouldn't mind Joeckel is because he grades out in the tier of Kalil and Long and other elites. That is a talent I wouldn't pass up. If the opportunity isn't there take the stud DE or CB.

I think there is a small shot that Chance Warmack falls to late teens. As much as I like him, with Cooper and Warford to most likely be there I wouldn't want to trade too many picks.

While I agree to a point but Fischer looked fantastic in the senior bowl practices which is why he is currently being talked about in the top 10. The question for me is how long does Jeff Backus have left?

Prowler · 02-06-2013, 04:32 AM

Most NFL.com draft analysts have Fisher mocked at 7 or 11 and cbssportsline and other draft sites like NEPatriotsdraft have him as 6th highest rated. Just because scouts inc doesn't have him there yet, doesn't mean he isn't graded that high. Frankly, if he blows Joeckel up at the combine then he could go ahead of him. The fact that he was once rated as a late first round pick doesn't mean anything. He can play left tackle and do a good job. Now he's rated higher.

Iamcanadian · 02-06-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

My questions/things I'm looking at for our 1st round pick:

1. Joeckel- Gets it if he outperforms Eric Fisher at combine and earns his top grade. He kept Mathews on the right, so I want to see more of him. Should impress.
2. Eric Fisher- Gets the pick if he performs just as well or better than Joeckel at the combine, cements the pick if Backus or Cherilus isn't back with us this year. If both tackles are brought back than he could slide back down to 4 with Moore and Milliner moving up.
3. Damontre Moore- Gets our pick if he displays his elite first step and explosiveness with an impressive combine. If he grades out as the elite "Von Miller" of this draft. Also, gets it if the tackles fail to impress and are too weak.
4. Milliner- Must run well and clearly separate from other CBs. Can't just be the beneficiary of playing for an elite college defense. How will he look when he's the only playmaker in our secondary?
5. Bjeorn- Gets it if he grades out as the top DE after the combine. Must display his power and speed. Has to weigh in properly and generate some buzz.

I love the 5 guys you picked, however, I seriously doubt Joeckel is still available at 5, I cannot see him getting out of the top 3.
I also love Fisher and the reason he is moving up draft boards, is that he only played against mediocre talent in college but the Senior Bowl showed the mnove up in competition didn't bother him one bit.

If Backus returns, Moore/Werner may be our pick if one is still there at 5. Werner would likely be the pick because I'm not sure Schwartz would want a 245lbs DE like Moore.

I agree that Milliner must demonstrate at the combine that he is talented enough to warrent a top 5 pick.

detroit4life · 02-07-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I love the 5 guys you picked, however, I seriously doubt Joeckel is still available at 5, I cannot see him getting out of the top 3.
I also love Fisher and the reason he is moving up draft boards, is that he only played against mediocre talent in college but the Senior Bowl showed the mnove up in competition didn't bother him one bit.

If Backus returns, Moore/Werner may be our pick if one is still there at 5. Werner would likely be the pick because I'm not sure Schwartz would want a 245lbs DE like Moore.

I agree that Milliner must demonstrate at the combine that he is talented enough to warrent a top 5 pick.

Fair enough on why Fischer is rising. I guess my point is, everyone here is assuming that Mayhew and Schwartz are ready to disregard Reiff as a LT after one year of spot play.

Between backus possibly coming back, gosder maybe getting re-signed, and our first round pick next year I honestly would be shocked to see them go OT unless we get lucky with Joeckel.

Once again, our GM and Coach's jobs are on the line this year. OT doesn't help this team get into the playoffs this year. And Honestly, I'd like to see what we have in our 1st round pick last year before we cement him at RT.

With all that said. I hope Mayhew tries to play Arizona leading up to the draft. Arizona needs an OT badly. I would love to pick up some extra picks to move down to 7.

Prowler · 02-07-2013, 03:04 PM

Fisher should grade out better than Riley. He is bigger, has longer arms, bigger hands, wingspan, and just showcased his skills in a week long event co-coached by our coaching staff(I know he was on the North and we had South). He's even from Michigan. He comes from a program that produced Joe Staley under very similar circumstances.

Its not a bad thing to have Reiff as just a good right tackle. I wouldn't mind Gosder back for cheap since he's finally playing decent, but this is a good option too.

What if the DEs or CBs bust? After watching a couple of Fisher's games and his Senior Bowl week, I feel like he's a sure thing. These defensive players better show me that they are safe bets. Plus the wide-9 thing is stupid enough to just have Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd round at DE and produce 10 sacks.

Iamcanadian · 02-07-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit4life

Fair enough on why Fischer is rising. I guess my point is, everyone here is assuming that Mayhew and Schwartz are ready to disregard Reiff as a LT after one year of spot play.

Between backus possibly coming back, gosder maybe getting re-signed, and our first round pick next year I honestly would be shocked to see them go OT unless we get lucky with Joeckel.

Once again, our GM and Coach's jobs are on the line this year. OT doesn't help this team get into the playoffs this year. And Honestly, I'd like to see what we have in our 1st round pick last year before we cement him at RT.

With all that said. I hope Mayhew tries to play Arizona leading up to the draft. Arizona needs an OT badly. I would love to pick up some extra picks to move down to 7.

You make a lot of good points but personally I doubt Mayhew's job is on the line no matter what fans think, Ford likes him and that usually equates to at least 8 years on the job.

Even Schwartz might survive an 8-8 season as they could just fire the OC and DC and give him one more year. Often these guys have to be fired before the HC is gone.

Not saying I like the above ideas but face it, Ford is Ford and change comes slow under his career.

I think Reiff could be a decent LT in the Backus mode but Cherlius scares me as a pass blocker and a Reiff/Joeckel/Fisher tandem would set up our offense for a decade at least and give Stafford maximum protection for that period. I think it is clear that Mayhew has always wanted a sure fire offense before building a defense, as the cornerstone of his team, so we always knew that Backus and Raiola would have to be replaced sooner rather than later.

I don't however think Moore/Werner and Milliner are out of the question, it is what makes draft day so thrilling, guessing what decisions Mayhew will make.

As for trading down with Arizona, I love the idea as this year's draft is deep and deeper. However, you have to ask the question, if round 2 and round 3 picks are so talented, will a lot of teams be willing to give up picks in this year's draft to move up? I don't think we'll see a whole lot of trades but I have been wrong before.

Prowler · 02-07-2013, 06:04 PM

Just so you don't have to read about Fisher, here's a different look.

"Win Now Mock"
1. Werner DE
2. Bernard RB
3. Justin Hunter WR
4(comp). Jefferson S(own coaches badmouth his work ethic, so he drops)
5. Brad Wing P
6. Quanterus Smith DE(more like win the year after...)
7. Shamarko Thomas S
7(comp). Levine Toilolo TE

If not Jefferson, then Schwenke C

weasel · 02-09-2013, 12:06 AM

Win now...
Eric Fischer LT
Barrett Jones C
Phillip Thomas S (trade back up and grab)
Drop Dom and Backus, sign Andy Lavigne and a DE with the money you save.
Almost forgot Delmas...

NotMyJob · 02-09-2013, 07:46 PM

do you guys think you'll resign/franchise Delmas?

weasel · 02-09-2013, 09:57 PM

Resign, yes! Franchise no.

Nastradamus · 02-10-2013, 11:54 PM

Delmas, despite his injuries, is a must sign.

detroit4life · 02-11-2013, 08:34 AM

I think Delmas will be back next year. I just am hoping that Mayhew doesn't give him anything long term because I honestly don't think he has more than 3 years left in his career with the way he plays. Reminds me of Bob Sanders way too much.

Best case scenario we keep him on a 2 year deal and get a rookie to play next to him and learn from him.

Nastradamus · 02-11-2013, 01:49 PM

I think you have to keep him. NFL contracts are pretty much non guaranteed so I don't worry too much about the length. You can sign a guy to a 5 year deal and cut him after 2 or 3 if it doesn't work out. People seem to forget that.

Safety play in the NFL right now is horrendous and our pass D is just miles better when Delmas is on the field compared to when he isn't. He's also our emotional leader, a la Ray Lewis. Try naming off the top 20 safeties. Once you get to about 10 you 'll realize damn, we cannot replace Delmas even if he only plays 10 games a year.

Prowler · 02-11-2013, 04:33 PM

Mayhew said that we will be active in free agency and that adding leadership is a priority. Basically, we fell apart and had an 8 game losing streak that would have never happened had we had stronger leaders. Tulloch and Stafford need to develop more and take that next step as leaders, and also we need to retain Delmas. His loss was mentioned specifically as being a reason our d fell apart.

I'm interested in who else we could add to help out. My guess is a veteran corner to help our young guys, meaning no rookie pickup. I'll be keeping my eye out for high character guys who could help our team. I would like to retain Houston for veteran leadership.

The only other names I see are maybe Rashean Mathis, Marcus Trufant, Quinton Jammer, or Antoine Cason. The rest are young guys. At safety, there's Kenny Phillips, Yaremiah Bell, and like Nate Clements. Also...veteran doesn't mean good. So adding like a Mike Peterson to our linebacking unit wouldn't be because he's the best, but it would just be to help round out our talented youngsters and give them a role model type. I'd say resigning Delmas, Houston, and adding one other vet should be enough to stabilize the D. The offense is all on Stafford's shoulders. Hopefully Backus will be around to help him.

*update*
Nick Barnett and George Wilson were just released by Buffalo. I would love to be able to snag a George Wilson/Delmas safety team.

weasel · 02-12-2013, 12:33 AM

Jarius Byrd, Dashon Golden, Andy LaVigne, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace are all guys I like as leaders.

cotts1 · 02-12-2013, 02:32 AM

I think the Lions would be stupid to pass on Milliner. Forget having to separate himself from other CB's at the combine. Just watch him play, he is a stud. Bama would constantly leave him on an island and he almost always came through. His talent has been obvious for a long time. He was a five star prospect coming out of high school. He is exactly what we need, a shutdown CB who can play against bigger, more physical receivers.

Nastradamus · 02-13-2013, 11:10 AM

You may be right. If they grade Millner out as a top 5-10 talent, they probably have to take him if they don't trade down. He's an NFCN corner. He has a chance to be somewhere between Jammer and Tillman.

Iamcanadian · 02-13-2013, 03:22 PM

I think Delmas is up in the air, he's so injury prone that he may well be cut. I think the Bob Sanders comparison is right on.
I'd use his salary to sign a more injury reliable FA who has leadership skills.
I cannot argue against drafting Milliner if he does well at the combine but I know that a defense starts with a pass rush which limits the amount of time a WR has to get open and right now our DE's seem below par.
I also know that Mayhew won't expose Stafford to potential injury so our draft may well be decided by what Backus and Raiola do.
There is just so many direction that we could take and nothing is actually wrong about any of them.

Triumphdog · 02-13-2013, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotts1

I think the Lions would be stupid to pass on Milliner. Forget having to separate himself from other CB's at the combine. Just watch him play, he is a stud. Bama would constantly leave him on an island and he almost always came through. His talent has been obvious for a long time. He was a five star prospect coming out of high school. He is exactly what we need, a shutdown CB who can play against bigger, more physical receivers.

I agree. Im just sick of the Spieveys, Houstons, Lacys and Wrights. Gimme a fresh outta the box prospect with potential to be a true #1 corner...not the hopefuls that are Greenwood, Bentley & Green. I mean if those fellas turn out to be good...than great!...but Milliner has the potential of something much greater than those guys...and if we pass on that? Come on...

And I would love to hear thoughts on Tyrann Mathieu. I think this dude is going to go much earlier than most anticipate. I would love to be that team to do so. I just have a feeling that Mathieu may have a Jenoris Jenkins (Dre Bly type risk taker) like impact for our team. Now adding him to a locker room with questionable attitudes already may not be wise. But man...the thought of Milliner and Mathieu added to our defensive back field sounds very very good to me...

Nastradamus · 02-15-2013, 11:48 AM

Mathieu probably has the ceiling of Dre Bly, floor of Alphonso Smith. Considering the 3rd and 4th Cb types we already have in guys like Bentley,Greenwood and hopefully Lacey(played well when moved to the nickel role), I don't think he's a fit for us. I'd rather go for Amerson a round earlier if we want a ball hawking type. He actually has potential to start and could potentially play S

Nastradamus · 02-15-2013, 11:51 AM

Delmas has never missed the kind of time Sanders was missing at the same age. He also still makes our D significantly better when out there.

Iamcanadian · 02-15-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triumphdog

I agree. Im just sick of the Spieveys, Houstons, Lacys and Wrights. Gimme a fresh outta the box prospect with potential to be a true #1 corner...not the hopefuls that are Greenwood, Bentley & Green. I mean if those fellas turn out to be good...than great!...but Milliner has the potential of something much greater than those guys...and if we pass on that? Come on...

And I would love to hear thoughts on Tyrann Mathieu. I think this dude is going to go much earlier than most anticipate. I would love to be that team to do so. I just have a feeling that Mathieu may have a Jenoris Jenkins (Dre Bly type risk taker) like impact for our team. Now adding him to a locker room with questionable attitudes already may not be wise. But man...the thought of Milliner and Mathieu added to our defensive back field sounds very very good to me...

Mathieu is a very interesting prospect but it will come down to his interview and his character as well as how he works out at the combine. Mayhew, also may not touch a another prospect with huge character issues after Young.
He's got late round 1 talent but will he be a huge headache???