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Old 02-12-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Well there was stuff about KP not happy with the scheme and medical staff regarding his care for his knee. So we will see that works. I never thought KP played to his potential from what was expected about that player who made bone jarring hits and making Ints left and right. The scheme doesn't play to his skills either. He is a glorified deep S.

Brown is a playmaker who creates sudden momentum changes. Not saying he is better than KP, but I am willing to see how he does another year and see if he can replicate his success in this scheme. I know the Panthers are eyeing KP and there was an article about that.

I think we can let KP go and we will be fine. Maybe if we actually blitzed we can reduce the amount of time a QB has in the pocket. That would help for starters. KP was solid but never played to his potential. I am not re-signing him with other safties waiting. That's money we can use for other players and positions.
Some points:

1. KP is one of the best deep FS in the league. Asking him to do that is perfectly fine by me. I'd make him do it every play. He may be frustrated by that role but I don't care. It's by far what he does best, and it keeps him healthy. That's the whole reason why I want him back. Earl Thomas is the only FS in the league better in the post than KP.

2. KP is not good in the box. Giving him more plays in the box is not advantageous to us. He's not overly aggressive. He's an awful blitzer. He might think he's great in this role but truthfully he's not. KP's strong suit is deep FS and coverage of TEs. That's it. And that's perfectly fine with me. That's all I want from him.

3. Stevie Brown is not good. It frustrates me when I hear talk about his potential. There isn't much potential. If you go back and look at the all 22 and see his INTs, most of them were right place right time INTs that fell into his lap. Poorly thrown balls. Maybe only 20 to 30% of his INTs were great plays where he made a break on the ball or baited a qb. The rest were lucky INTs.

On top of that, the rest of his game is mediocre. He takes horrible angles, not a great tackler, and he got beat deep ALOT. He's not good. People think he has potential and he's good bc of a couple of INTs and thats bullcrap. He's not good.

Stevie Brown is not good. If we lose KP we need a replacement. Bc Stevie Brown is not the answer. He's not terrible, but he's not good either.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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3. Stevie Brown is not good. It frustrates me when I hear talk about his potential. There isn't much potential. If you go back and look at the all 22 and see his INTs, most of them were right place right time INTs that fell into his lap. Poorly thrown balls. Maybe only 20 to 30% of his INTs were great plays where he made a break on the ball or baited a qb. The rest were lucky INTs.

On top of that, the rest of his game is mediocre. He takes horrible angles, not a great tackler, and he got beat deep ALOT. He's not good. People think he has potential and he's good bc of a couple of INTs and thats bullcrap. He's not good.

Stevie Brown is not good. If we lose KP we need a replacement. Bc Stevie Brown is not the answer. He's not terrible, but he's not good either.
This. I also watched a lot of our games in all 22 after the regular season, and it's really noticeable how often he gets beat deep. And like you are saying, a lot of his INTs were of the fluke variety. I dare say he will never replicate that amount of INTs again in the NFL.
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JPP enjoys raping offensive tackles.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I was not a huge fan of Stevie Brown. The problem is most media and casual viewers look at all his turnovers and go nuts. He was very average/below average and Kenny Phillips is a million times better than him as a safety.

BBD is a 100% correct on him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking, we are going to be overhauling our defense front seven fairly majorly.
Is it worth us looking at including some looks from other defensive schemes that work well (after all, everyl defense adapts)?

We are replacing Tuck in the next couple of years, overhauling DT and LB.

Is it worth us looking for a bigger LDE much like what Seattle and Denver do with Red Bryant and Derek Wolfe?

We could easily implement some of the fronts on early downs similar to what Seattle does (with 2 gap (3-4 style) LDE and DTs and the floating RDE ( basically playing the wide 9)). JPP and Kiwi could easily play the floating RDE there.

If we had someone who could play both 4-3 LDE and 3-4 DE, we could easily switch back and forth between schemes quickly.
Tuck can fill that role and there are options in the draft including Ansah and probably a few of the DTs like Floyd. We could also look in free agency perhaps with Ratliff or Seymour. Is this a role that Austin could develop into with his strength and quickness?

Seattle use fast, athletic LBs. Williams and Paysinger fit the mould and we are retooling anyways; guys like Ogeltree, Brown, Greene etc could fit either system.

Robert Nunn and Jim Hermann have experience with both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts.

One of the problems I think is we are too predictable up front, teams can scheme for us and shut down our pass rush. We have had real problems stopping the run.

It seems to me, considering we are overhauling the defensive front anyways, we could get players that fit both our current schemes and a Seattle style hybrid, we could switch between our 4-3 base, Nascar etc and the hybrid depending on the situation.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I was thinking, we are going to be overhauling our defense front seven fairly majorly.
Is it worth us looking at including some looks from other defensive schemes that work well (after all, everyl defense adapts)?

We are replacing Tuck in the next couple of years, overhauling DT and LB.

Is it worth us looking for a bigger LDE much like what Seattle and Denver do with Red Bryant and Derek Wolfe?

We could easily implement some of the fronts on early downs similar to what Seattle does (with 2 gap (3-4 style) LDE and DTs and the floating RDE ( basically playing the wide 9)). JPP and Kiwi could easily play the floating RDE there.

If we had someone who could play both 4-3 LDE and 3-4 DE, we could easily switch back and forth between schemes quickly.
Tuck can fill that role and there are options in the draft including Ansah and probably a few of the DTs like Floyd. We could also look in free agency perhaps with Ratliff or Seymour. Is this a role that Austin could develop into with his strength and quickness?

Seattle use fast, athletic LBs. Williams and Paysinger fit the mould and we are retooling anyways; guys like Ogeltree, Brown, Greene etc could fit either system.

Robert Nunn and Jim Hermann have experience with both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts.

One of the problems I think is we are too predictable up front, teams can scheme for us and shut down our pass rush. We have had real problems stopping the run.

It seems to me, considering we are overhauling the defensive front anyways, we could get players that fit both our current schemes and a Seattle style hybrid, we could switch between our 4-3 base, Nascar etc and the hybrid depending on the situation.
I'm gonna say no and here's why:

I love Seattle's defense as much as the next guy. It's my favorite defense in the league. But make no mistake. That defense isn't great bc of the scheme. That defense is great bc of the players. That defense is loaded with talent. Absolutely loaded.

Any play they run looks good bc those players are so damn good. So trying to replicate the scheme doesn't make sense to me. Bc the scheme isn't particularly better than what anyone else does. It's the players that make it look so damn good.

Our money is pass rush. The Seahawks make their money on coverage. It's a different philosophy. I prefer to build from the rush. In fact, Seattle is actively looking to improve their pass rush this offseason so they recognize it as a flaw in their makeup.

We just need better players, that's all. Our defensive talent is very overrated. The only DLmen who's a stud is JPP, Joseph is solid. Our LBs are trash. Our secondary has potential with Prince and Hosely but we need another CB at least plus potentially a safety.

We need players. You can draw up the greatest scheme ever, if the players can't execute it doesn't matter. To Fewell's credit, when he did try blitzing our DBs got torched this year. It wasn't all Fewell. It's the players.

Stopping the run is on the players. You can't design a scheme to stop the run, that's a player problem.

We just need better players. The defense is old and stale.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Yeah the talent on D this year was not as great as we would have hoped. Throw in the SB hangover and the desire didnt seem to be there either. An infusion of young talent is going to be the best thing for the D.

BBD can you just give me a quick brief on the basic responsibilites of a LDE compared to a RDE? I know that sounds like a dumb question but what do teams look for on both sides that differ?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Yeah the talent on D this year was not as great as we would have hoped. Throw in the SB hangover and the desire didnt seem to be there either. An infusion of young talent is going to be the best thing for the D.

BBD can you just give me a quick brief on the basic responsibilites of a LDE compared to a RDE? I know that sounds like a dumb question but what do teams look for on both sides that differ?
Well, the right answer I would give you is we don't know bc it depends on the DC's system and preference. But to simplify it for the sake of generalizations, I'd say the difference is how they're built and how they rush.

So basically, teams in general prefer running strong side. Bc the RG and RT are typically bigger guys plus you have the TE on that side. So you want your LE to be a bigger base, a guy who can handle setting the edge and stopping the run. His ability to burn the edge with a speed rush is diminished bc he has to either line up wide 9 and beat the TE around the edge and meet the RT inside, which also opens up a huge running lane, or he has to split the RT and TE and get to the qb and that is difficult to do if you're just a speed rusher who loops around the OT.

So he doesn't need to be a speed guy. He needs to be a little bigger to stop the run, and he needs to use power and swim/arm over/under moves to rush the passer.

So when you look for a LE, you want a guy who's like 6 4" 270 with long arms, a good bullrush, and good setup moves to counter his bullrush. Ideally this guy can play inside on passing downs so when teams go spread on 3rd down, you can put another speed rusher at LE so the RE and LE can stretch out the OTs and open up the gaps inside to rush the passer.

It depends on the system though. Some guys don't care and just want extreme speed rush on the edges and in that case the LE and RE are the same. Some guys just want a run stuffer: See Seattle.

But ideally in a generic sense, that's what you look for in a LE. Size, length, and a good bullrush. Enough speed to keep contain on the outside, he can't be too slow bc he still needs to protect the edge. So he can't be too stiff, you want to see some good bend in him. Bc if he's stiff scrambling qbs and shifty RBs will just beat him to the edge all day long.

Of course it's not easy finding that ideal prototype guy. So teams counter this in some ways:

1. Do what Seattle does. Put a bulky 3-4 DE type at LE and then sub in a pass rusher on 3rd down.

2. Some teams like putting an edge rusher out there, and have a Joker type of SAM who is a DE/LB hybrid who offers some size and pass rush to counter the TE in the run game with overwhelming size to set the edge and offer some pass rush as well which adjusts how you pass protect or run block from the offense's perspective.

3. Some teams just don't care and are only concerned with pass rush. The wide 9 concept. Stop the run on the way to the qb.

4. The 3-4 defense is great at setting the edge and forces the runner inside into the bubbles.

So it's really dependent on several factors. But ideally you want what I stated in a traditional 4-3 defense.

That's why your LE is usually not a guy who gets you 15 sacks a season. It's not his role. His role is to set the edge, then rush the passer.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Exactly what I was looking for thanks. Thanks!!
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Exactly what I was looking for thanks. Thanks!!
No problem bro. That's why Ansah and Carradine are the 2 guys I'm really looking at for the Giants. They both fit what we want at LE.

Ansah is obviously my dream pick, but if he is gone, and Carradine is there in the 2nd, I gotta think hard about him. Bc my only concern is his get off, it's a little slow.

But YFS is telling me that it's not a physical problem, he's just not watching the ball every time and is inconsistent in his get off. So I gotta go back and look at him again with that in mind to see if I see what YFS is saying.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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No problem bro. That's why Ansah and Carradine are the 2 guys I'm really looking at for the Giants. They both fit what we want at LE.

Ansah is obviously my dream pick, but if he is gone, and Carradine is there in the 2nd, I gotta think hard about him. Bc my only concern is his get off, it's a little slow.

But YFS is telling me that it's not a physical problem, he's just not watching the ball every time and is inconsistent in his get off. So I gotta go back and look at him again with that in mind to see if I see what YFS is saying.
Ansah I am on the fence about if it came to a defensive player. AO ILB I wouldn't mind if he was our pick. That CB I'd be ok with if he was our pick. It will be interesting this off season. I am actually really excited about this off season and draft.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Ansah I am on the fence about if it came to a defensive player. AO ILB I wouldn't mind if he was our pick. That CB I'd be ok with if he was our pick. It will be interesting this off season. I am actually really excited about this off season and draft.
Why are you on the fence about Ansah?
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Why are you on the fence about Ansah?
I don't think he has the raw skills as everyone thought JPP had. The old scout, Kirwan or whoever, called the pick. He said that our whole staff, and TC, were there personally watching JPP. So I kind of felt like this guy, if he was there may be it. Obviously, me being me, I hoped we wouldn't go for a raw guy. But my point is objectively, I got the sense everyone was in awe of JPP and his skill set.

I feel like while this particular prospect is being compared to JPP, I don't think he has those skills or raw potential that JPP had/has. So I am on the fence about this pick. I think the media or comparisons are comparing him to JPP because of the body and style I guess. Even in the player interview Scott had on this site, he compares himself or watched JPP play.

I guess if you are an agent you'd tell your prospect to say JPP because of the production he had. However, I just saying I guess I' feel comfortable at other defensive positions or prospects than Ansah.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he has the raw skills as everyone thought JPP had. The old scout, Kirwan or whoever, called the pick. He said that our whole staff, and TC, were there personally watching JPP. So I kind of felt like this guy, if he was there may be it. Obviously, me being me, I hoped we wouldn't go for a raw guy. But my point is objectively, I got the sense everyone was in awe of JPP and his skill set.

I feel like while this particular prospect is being compared to JPP, I don't think he has those skills or raw potential that JPP had/has. So I am on the fence about this pick. I think the media or comparisons are comparing him to JPP because of the body and style I guess. Even in the player interview Scott had on this site, he compares himself or watched JPP play.

I guess if you are an agent you'd tell your prospect to say JPP because of the production he had. However, I just saying I guess I' feel comfortable at other defensive positions or prospects than Ansah.
You just want an offensive player. That's what it is.

But yeah, Ansah isn't JPP but he has similar skill set. He's not gonna be JPP. But we don't need him to be. He's gonna play a different position anyway, he would be our LE.

He seems like has more functional strength than JPP. JPP bends better and is a better natural pass rusher. But Ansah is also a freak athlete, and as a LE, I think he's a great run stuffer and a terror off the edge as a bullrusher.

I'm comfortable with Ansah. I had my reservations but he blew me away at the Senior Bowl. Watch the Senior Bowl. He was all over the place.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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You just want an offensive player. That's what it is.

But yeah, Ansah isn't JPP but he has similar skill set. He's not gonna be JPP. But we don't need him to be. He's gonna play a different position anyway, he would be our LE.

He seems like has more functional strength than JPP. JPP bends better and is a better natural pass rusher. But Ansah is also a freak athlete, and as a LE, I think he's a great run stuffer and a terror off the edge as a bullrusher.

I'm comfortable with Ansah. I had my reservations but he blew me away at the Senior Bowl. Watch the Senior Bowl. He was all over the place.
Well duh! I like offensive players.

However, in this case I am being objective. That's why I stated other defensive spots too. And it's not DE it's this specific prospect, Ansah. You may see it that way, and that's good but I feel like the media or scouts are making this guy, the next JPP. So skeptical on that.

I do remember you feeling this way after the Senior Bowl, so I do remember that. I will have to see combine, and pro day. I would be interested in seeing how our staff follows this player.

This is one DT that interests me. That fat one from Georgia. Johnathan Jenkins? 350 lb DT? I'd like to see him, with LinJo, and next to Rodgers. Maybe they can do well eating up blocks, allowing our Lbs to flow.

I do like those fat DTs like that. I was cool with LinJo when we drafted him once I read up on him. I did like that physical measurements.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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YFS is one of the biggest Carradine advocates. Same with Arthur Brown, and I trust his eye more than most people.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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I want a game changer in the first round

There are two guys that I really like

first is Ezekiel Ansah, thats a no brainer in my opinion, we need a LDE to eventually replace Tuck.

Ansah is raw and will take time to develop, but he has has all the physical tools, work ethic and is a true gamer. Bringing him in to learn and develop behind Tuck is the perfect situation for him.



The other guy I like is DJ Fluker, a mauler at RT; I think his floor is an Iupati style LG.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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i think if Richardson or Floyd fall to us and Ziggy isn't there, we have to take them. I'm a fan of both
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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K David Buehler signed by us
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Who? Does this mean Tynes is gone? I don't like that, I love Tynes
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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probably. he was the cowboys old kicker, but only KOS I believe
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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He sucked though.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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He sucked though.
yeah i don't really get it either.

leverage with tynes? insurance if we draft a guy?
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Who? Does this mean Tynes is gone? I don't like that, I love Tynes
Not sure, Tynes is a UFA though. Maybe we give away Beckum's roster's spot for Tynes and this kickoff specialist. Or... Tynes doesn't get re-signed.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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You just want an offensive player. That's what it is.

But yeah, Ansah isn't JPP but he has similar skill set. He's not gonna be JPP. But we don't need him to be. He's gonna play a different position anyway, he would be our LE.

He seems like has more functional strength than JPP. JPP bends better and is a better natural pass rusher. But Ansah is also a freak athlete, and as a LE, I think he's a great run stuffer and a terror off the edge as a bullrusher.

I'm comfortable with Ansah. I had my reservations but he blew me away at the Senior Bowl. Watch the Senior Bowl. He was all over the place.
I'm a bit on the fence about Ansuh as well. The hype machine from the Senior Bowl game has a lot of people overrating him IMO. You have to remember that a game like the Senior Bowl favours raw talent over a finished product. The blocking scheme are basic with little deception or switching of schemes. Mayock said time and again the the Senior Bowl rules are made for a prospect like Ansuh.
I still remember the practices where he was completely negated on every play.
I'll admit I could be dead wrong but IMO, he has a huge bust potential and he will be one interesting guy to follow as a pro.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm a bit on the fence about Ansuh as well. The hype machine from the Senior Bowl game has a lot of people overrating him IMO. You have to remember that a game like the Senior Bowl favours raw talent over a finished product. The blocking scheme are basic with little deception or switching of schemes. Mayock said time and again the the Senior Bowl rules are made for a prospect like Ansuh.
I still remember the practices where he was completely negated on every play.
I'll admit I could be dead wrong but IMO, he has a huge bust potential and he will be one interesting guy to follow as a pro.
See that's fine with me. To me the draft is all about raw talent. I don't really like finished products. I'm not a fan of high floor low ceiling guys. They translate to average players in the NFL.

Ideally you want both great measurables and refined talent, but to me athleticism translates to the NFL. Skill can be taught.

I'm not advocating that you always go with a raw freak, but when you do find one, I think you go through the diligence of digging into him and seeing if he's a piece of clay you can work with. And if he is, I'm all for it.

I feel that Ansah is like JPP in the sense that he's a piece of clay that will work out in the NFL and pay huge rewards under the right coaching and program. In our program, Ansah would flourish. We know how to develop pass rushers.
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