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Old 02-13-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Default Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia

Why is this guy graded as a 3rd round pick? He's 6 4" 265 with 34" arms. Great long frame, long arms, he has an exceptional burst off the LOS, great speed, great motor, good functional strength. He's disruptive.

I saw the Georgia/Alabama game and the Senior Bowl over again and this guy made plays all over the field in both games.

Why such a low grade? Am I missing something? I don't get how a guy like this is a 3rd round pick and a guy like Sam Montgomery is a 1st rounder. I'll take this kid over Montgomery any day of the week.

He looks like a 1st rounder to me. Unless I'm missing something? Sell me on why this guy is a 3rd round pick.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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I love Washington more than most, but he is almost laughably bad against the run (although I thought he held his own against 'Bama, so maybe that's a sign of improvement). The only other issue some might have is that he doesn't produce at the level his talent would indicate.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Lacks pass rush moves, poor change of direction, poor production. Little bit of a tweener, likely has a future at 43 DE rather than 3-4 OLB
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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He seemed to play the run well in the Senior Bowl and Alabama game. *shrug*

I'm not as concerned about production as most. To me I'm looking for athletic talent that translates to the NFL. So I'm looking for size, length, speed, bend, and strength. Pass rushing to me is mostly about athleticism. Moves are overrated. You just need 2 moves. Your primary and change up. Thats it. You don't have time in 2.5 seconds to throw an arsenal of moves on the OT, you just have to use your athleticism to get there.

Maybe I'm higher on him then I should be, but everything I look for is there.

When I look at a Sam Montgomery who screams mediocre NFL DE to me, I don't see how that's a 1st round talent then a guy with elite potential like this guy is a 3rd rounder.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Moves are overrated. You just need 2 moves. Your primary and change up. Thats it. You don't have time in 2.5 seconds to throw an arsenal of moves on the OT, you just have to use your athleticism to get there.
The problem with him from the film I've watched is once he gets stood up he's done. If his initial move doesn't work, he has nothing to fall back on. Poor hand use etc.

That can be taught, I too like him more than most, but I'm not touching him until at least the 4th. Would feel more comfortable taking him 5-7 if he were there
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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He seemed to play the run well in the Senior Bowl and Alabama game. *shrug*

I'm not as concerned about production as most. To me I'm looking for athletic talent that translates to the NFL. So I'm looking for size, length, speed, bend, and strength. Pass rushing to me is mostly about athleticism. Moves are overrated. You just need 2 moves. Your primary and change up. Thats it. You don't have time in 2.5 seconds to throw an arsenal of moves on the OT, you just have to use your athleticism to get there.

Maybe I'm higher on him then I should be, but everything I look for is there.

When I look at a Sam Montgomery who screams mediocre NFL DE to me, I don't see how that's a 1st round talent then a guy with elite potential like this guy is a 3rd rounder.
Its not about using all of your moves on a given play. If you only throw 2 moves at an OT for an entire game, he's going to figure you out pretty easily.

Agreed on Montgomery though.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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To me, run stuffing, moves, they're not as valued as we may think anymore. Look at Bruce Irvin. The guys on TV had him as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. But he had elite pass rushing ability and went in the 1st. And several teams had him as the best pass rusher in the draft and had a 1st round grade on him.

Teams want pass rush. They don't care how refined you are, or how great you play the run or how many moves you have. They want to see a guy have elite pass rush ability or potential to become that.

I think this guy has elite pass rush potential, I think his run stuffing ability is underrated, and I personally value him much much higher than where he's currently ranked. I think the combine might push him up boards as well.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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That's a poor comparison, everyone knew Bruce Irvin could rush the passer. They knew he could even hold his own in the run game.

He was projected as a 2nd rounder because he weighed 245 and he was already 25 years old.

Despite all of that, let's not act like Bruce Irvin has proven anything in the NFL. He's a role playing pass rusher that had 16 tackles, half of them came on his sacks.

Like I said, I like Washington, and if he has good workouts I think he could be a 3rd rounder. But I just don't see anything that would warrant a first or 2nd round selection.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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If he has workout numbers then he'll be first round.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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That's a poor comparison, everyone knew Bruce Irvin could rush the passer. They knew he could even hold his own in the run game.

He was projected as a 2nd rounder because he weighed 245 and he was already 25 years old.

Despite all of that, let's not act like Bruce Irvin has proven anything in the NFL. He's a role playing pass rusher that had 16 tackles, half of them came on his sacks.
I'm torn on that evaluation. I expect more from my first round guys. However Irvin was an impact player and should be more so in the coming years.

He was brought on to advance our 3rd down defense. In that he excelled. Across the board, his 3rd down sacks, QB hits and hurries were each solidly in the top 5-10 for the entire NFL. It's limited scope but being effective on 3rd down has tremendous value. Irvin's stat totals will look pretty lousy but for impact he's done extremely well.

I'm still on the fence on him because of that limited role. Particularly since we're going into 2013 with the same stated #1 need as we had when we went into 2012. Wagner and Wilson absolutely made that draft class.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Turbin is also a boss.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Great name... just like this guy. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54258

Not as good as Cornelius Bennett though.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Killed the combine. 4.53 40, 36 reps with 34 inch arms is incredibly impressive, great broad jump and vertical.

The guy is arguably just as much of a freak if not more freakish than Ansah.

I'm telling you guys, he's gonna be a steal. This guy is a 1st round pick to me.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Yea and Montgomery has tanked it. You might be right come draft day. Washington r1 and Montgomery r3 (or worse)
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Streaky motor and nasty streak, taking some plays off. Some maturity questions after a DUI arrest in Oct. 2011, going 92 miles per hour in a 55 MPH zone (suspended two games). Also attracted some controversy for calling out fans on Facebook this past season.
Sooooooo..He's a dick and he only had half a sack this year. That half sack was in the first game of the season.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Sooooooo..He's a dick and he only had half a sack this year. That half sack was in the first game of the season.
That's what the interview process is for. That's one thing us fans don't have access to that's critical. Teams will ask his coaches about him, they'll interview him and get feedback on what kind of guy he is.

Unfortunately we don't have access to that information. But when I watch him play, then I compare what I like on film to what he shows us athletically at the combine, I see a 1st round pass rusher.

Now the off field stuff I can't comment on, but what I see with my eyes is a 1st round talent. I don't care about college stats. Although I would investigate further why he hasn't produced on the field.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Terrific athlete but the guy isn't a good football player
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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My concern is why didn't he perform better at college

That defense did have plenty if talent.

Was he poorly coached? Poor motivation? Is he now in much better physical shape than college? Is he purely a workout warrior?
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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When I saw him I saw a high motor. He didn't play a lot of snaps but when he was on the field I saw production.

Now granted, I saw 1 game, and the Senior Bowl. So I didn't see a whole season of work. So I do have to look into any potential motor issues. The games I saw I didnt see that as an issue, he played high motor every snap.

But it is a question that needs to be answered. Let's see what Mayock comes up with. He has connections, and he'll find out what the deal was and we'll hear about it.

I'm curious to see what he can find out.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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I want this guy on the Patriots.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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When I saw him I saw a high motor. He didn't play a lot of snaps but when he was on the field I saw production.

Now granted, I saw 1 game, and the Senior Bowl. So I didn't see a whole season of work. So I do have to look into any potential motor issues. The games I saw I didnt see that as an issue, he played high motor every snap.

But it is a question that needs to be answered. Let's see what Mayock comes up with. He has connections, and he'll find out what the deal was and we'll hear about it.

I'm curious to see what he can find out.
As Mayock said, he'll have to go back and watch a lot more film on Washington and see why the overall production just wasn't there. He said maybe Georgia simply had too much talent and Washington got rotated a lot and didn't see the field early in his career. A lot of questions to be answered before we all go overboard about Washington but it will be very interesting to see Mayock's final results.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I jumped on his bandwagon during the senior bowl practice.

And same as Mayock, when I saw him dominate in practice, I wondered what the hell happened during games? where was he?
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:03 AM    (permalink
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I think he was hurt more then anyone with the switch mid career from a 4-3 to a 3-4.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Killed the combine. 4.53 40, 36 reps with 34 inch arms is incredibly impressive, great broad jump and vertical.

The guy is arguably just as much of a freak if not more freakish than Ansah.

I'm telling you guys, he's gonna be a steal. This guy is a 1st round pick to me.
2nd fastest linebacker at the combine while weighing 15-30 lbs more than anyone else. The only guy faster (Zaviar Gooden) was 31 lbs lighter.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Terrible football player.
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