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Old 02-14-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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So I finished watching the Senior Bowl with focus on the DL the entire game.

One note that I didn't expect before I watched the game: If you take the names off the jerseys, and didn't know anything about any of the players, you would think that Cornelius Washington was every bit as dominant if not more dominant than Ansah in that game.

He was just as physically imposing, just as disruptive, played with the same motor, I can make an argument that he had a more productive game. And he played against the LT, whereas Ansah went against the RT all game.

He was extremely impressive. Now what does that mean? They always say that the Senior Bowl is advantageous to guys with elite physical tools bc they get to showcase those tools in a simpler game. So what does that tell me? It tells me that Washington has elite physical tools, which he does, I'm confident he'll have an excellent combine.

And Jordan Hill was all over the place. Those are 2 DLmen from this game that really stood out to me other than Ansah. I think both will wind up being tremendous value picks wherever they get drafted.

I have Washington high on my radar.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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wait. Greene's only played LB for 2 years (one offseason which he spent rehabbing a broken ankle) and used to be a safety and Ogletree has more upside and athleticsm? Huh? I'm trying not to be a homer on this one, but that whole logic doesn't make much sense all around.

And BBD, I washington more of a RE though? We need a LE
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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wait. Greene's only played LB for 2 years (one offseason which he spent rehabbing a broken ankle) and used to be a safety and Ogletree has more upside and athleticsm? Huh? I'm trying not to be a homer on this one, but that whole logic doesn't make much sense all around.

And BBD, I washington more of a RE though? We need a LE
Yes, you're being a homer about this one. Greene is limited by his athleticism, not his skill. Oggletree blows him out of the water as a height/weight/speed/length guy and it's not even close.

Yeah Washington is more of a RE. But I don't want to devalue a guy just bc he is a RE instead of a LE. Ultimately, you want to get the most talented guy, and he passed my evaluation with flying colors. Worst case scenario you can always move JPP to LE although that's not preferable by me.

Or if Washington comes off the board in the 3rd you can just use him as a rush specialist who plays LE on passing downs. You have options. I just want good players.

Carradine is still higher on my board for now, but that doesn't diminish what Washington brings to the table.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Yes, you're being a homer about this one. Greene is limited by his athleticism, not his skill. Oggletree blows him out of the water as a height/weight/speed/length guy and it's not even close.

Yeah Washington is more of a RE. But I don't want to devalue a guy just bc he is a RE instead of a LE. Ultimately, you want to get the most talented guy, and he passed my evaluation with flying colors. Worst case scenario you can always move JPP to LE although that's not preferable by me.

Or if Washington comes off the board in the 3rd you can just use him as a rush specialist who plays LE on passing downs. You have options. I just want good players.

Carradine is still higher on my board for now, but that doesn't diminish what Washington brings to the table.
I totally disagree on speed and total athleticism. hell, greene was a really good safety. that's athleticism. Measureables? Yeah, that's oggletree by far.

see, i don't wanna move JPP to LE because he wasn't as effective this year there. I'd take Washington in the 3rd or so, but he's not a huge need long term as we need a LE, DT and LB's. And CB's. I mean, if he's best value, hell yeah, jump on him and bring back the NYG pass rush we love, but still
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I totally disagree on speed and total athleticism. hell, greene was a really good safety. that's athleticism. Measureables? Yeah, that's oggletree by far.

see, i don't wanna move JPP to LE because he wasn't as effective this year there. I'd take Washington in the 3rd or so, but he's not a huge need long term as we need a LE, DT and LB's. And CB's. I mean, if he's best value, hell yeah, jump on him and bring back the NYG pass rush we love, but still
Here's the problem with limiting yourself to just going after LEs: You basically have either Ansah or Carradine as your only round 1-2 options then. You don't want to limit yourself like that.

And you never know, Washington is a speed rusher but he has a good bullrush too. So it's possible that he can play LE in the future. He has the size and length. He just needs to work on some core strength which I'm sure he would have the chance to do with the Giants as we bring him along slowly, and he can play there if need be. He has the tools to play there.

I mean, if Kiwi can play LE using his length to create separation and get off blocks, I don't see why Washington can't. He's like a Kiwi with more upside.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I am not convinced that DE is much of a draft need if it isn't a special talent such as Ansah, particularly if Kiwanuka is moved full time to DE.

Don't get me wrong, I do like guys like Tank Carradine, Washington etc. But I think Tracy, Trattou and Ojomo can contribute effectively from the 4th/5th DE roster spots.

As far as improving our defense goes, intstead of a DE in the 2nd/3rd rounds, I think we would be better off getting a quality LB or CB and improve he back seven.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I am not convinced that DE is much of a draft need if it isn't a special talent such as Ansah, particularly if Kiwanuka is moved full time to DE.

Don't get me wrong, I do like guys like Tank Carradine, Washington etc. But I think Tracy, Trattou and Ojomo can contribute effectively from the 4th/5th DE roster spots.

As far as improving our defense goes, intstead of a DE in the 2nd/3rd rounds, I think we would be better off getting a quality LB or CB and improve he back seven.
You bring up a good point. If the Giants are high on Yosi and Ojomo, which it sounds like may be the case, then we may not go after a DE unless Ansah is there for the taking.

On the other hand, Tuck is on his final year of his contract. Osi is gone. And Kiwi is on the final year of his contract. There's a good chance that this coming season will be the last season we have both Tuck and Kiwi, and if that's the case, then DE is very much a need. So perhaps we still stockpile?

It's an interesting situation.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I could see us taking Dion Jordan if he's there and Ansah, Warmack and Johnson are gone
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I have to study Dion some more. I soured a little on him bc he lacks strength.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Tank is a pretty special talent, and getting him in round two would be the same type of coup that getting Tuck in the 3rd was all of those years ago. We need a DE who can be a high level starter opposite JPP, maybe not right away, but in a year or two when at least two of Tuck, Osi and Kiwi will be gone. And regardless of how much the team's liked what they've seen out of Ojomo and co in practice and preseason, I doubt we expect them to be high level starters. So DE is a need for us, and between the depth of this draft, our success developing edge talent, and the guys we have on the team, this is a perfect situation to address that need for the next window.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I look at it like this, and maybe I'm wrong, but this is my take:

If the staff really was very high on Yosi and Ojomo, they would have seen more snaps during the season. Both of them literally never saw the field. And with our pass rush struggling you figure they'd at least get a snap here and there or some drives to show something during the season. But it never happened.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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I look at it like this, and maybe I'm wrong, but this is my take:

If the staff really was very high on Yosi and Ojomo, they would have seen more snaps during the season. Both of them literally never saw the field. And with our pass rush struggling you figure they'd at least get a snap here and there or some drives to show something during the season. But it never happened.
I agree with you, their lack of play-time durring the year tells me they aren't seen as the future at DE. I think at best they're seen as situational guys who will have to earn play-time next year. None of these guys are reason enough to pass up on a DE if one falls to us that we like. If we go 7 rounds without taking a DE just because of those 2 and Trattou I will be pissed
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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I look at it like this, and maybe I'm wrong, but this is my take:

If the staff really was very high on Yosi and Ojomo, they would have seen more snaps during the season. Both of them literally never saw the field. And with our pass rush struggling you figure they'd at least get a snap here and there or some drives to show something during the season. But it never happened.
Exactly, if we saw them as future studs to start opposite JPP, they'd at least be coming in for some snaps, I think the hope is to get one quality future rotational guy out of the three of them, but but not a future starter, someone who can push Kiwi for the #3 DE role behind JPP and somebody else, like Ansah or Tank.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Exactly, if we saw them as future studs to start opposite JPP, they'd at least be coming in for some snaps, I think the hope is to get one quality future rotational guy out of the three of them, but but not a future starter, someone who can push Kiwi for the #3 DE role behind JPP and somebody else, like Ansah or Tank.
I'm not sure about that, we were trying to kick start our pass rush and get into the playoffs. You don't bench one of your three pro bowl DEs to give a youngster some reps. That's what happens in the offseason.

I do think the front office likes the upside in Tracy, Ojomo and Trattou. They have potential, but have to develop. That doesn't mean they can't contribute this season, particularly as the 4th DE
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Anyways I did my latest 1 round mock based on my pre-combine thoughts.

I currently have us going with Fluker at #19; both Ansah and Richardson are off the table.

Going by how this mock has shaken down so far; I am thinking CB in round 2 and LB in round 3. I still need to look at how it potentially shakes down.

Here is the mock if anyone is interested:
http://www.ourlads.com/nfl-mock-draf...ck-draft/64290
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Anyways I did my latest 1 round mock based on my pre-combine thoughts.

I currently have us going with Fluker at #19; both Ansah and Richardson are off the table.

Going by how this mock has shaken down so far; I am thinking CB in round 2 and LB in round 3. I still need to look at how it potentially shakes down.

Here is the mock if anyone is interested:
http://www.ourlads.com/nfl-mock-draf...ck-draft/64290
nice mock, but I think you've got Floyd a little too low and I'd be hard pressed to see us passing on him
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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nice mock, but I think you've got Floyd a little too low and I'd be hard pressed to see us passing on him
The reason is that OT is the priority; Fluker has rare physical tools. He is also the kind of mauler RT we had with McKenzie.

I'd like a DT, but I am expecting a cheap FA like Dorsey or Hill to be brought in. There is enough depth at DT that there could be options in the second or third rounds.


btw I can see where you are coming from with Floyd and have flipped the Seattle/Panthers picks (think I was being lazy with the Panthers pick)
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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If we look at DT, the guy I like the most is Jesse Williams.

He isn't going to be the flashiest guy, but he is very powerful and an ideal fit as a 2 gap DT. He is the kind of guy who can crush the pocket. Williams also has excellent stamina, motor and work ethic.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Ogletree got a DUI, no way we take him round 1 now. Maybe round 2, but I doubt it. He's probably off our board completely now
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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For what is worth, Tony Pauline at draftinsider has reported on two different occasions that DJ Fluker and the Giants are being connected.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind Fluker at all. You can't teach what Fluker has.

Once Ansah is off the board, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned. We can go OT, OG, DE, CB, LB, DT, the possibilities are endless. I can name a good 10 guys I would love at 19 once Ansah is off the board.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm slowly falling in love with Arthur Brown. I have a good feeling he'll be there for us in round 2 as well. He makes so much sense for us.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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i'll go out on a limb and say there's 0 chance Brown's there for us in the 2nd
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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I would agree with that. He's too good to fall that far.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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There's too much depth in the trenches for him to go high 2nd. Plus I can see a run at WRs in the 2nd round.

Brown is a hell of a LB, but he lacks the elite physical tools that would make him a late 1st/early 2nd round player.

We saw Lavonte David and Mychal Kendricks fall last year and both are more physically impressive and just as productive as Brown. Undersized 4-3 LBs fall in the draft. He'll be there.
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