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Old 02-14-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
TheFinisher
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Scott has us taking Richardson in his new mock. I was under the impression he was a top 10 guy, but I'd be thrilled if he fell to us. 3T becomes one of the more important positions on our team with the defensive switch, and we don't have a great fit on the roster right now. I think a lot of people are holding onto 2007-circa Ratliff but the truth is he hasn't been that guy in years, he's over the hill and given his cap number, DUI charge, injuries and alleged "poor attitude" we're probably better off cutting him loose... and I think we would if we brought in a guy like Richardson.

Fantastic movement skills for a 300 pounder, I'd love to see Marinelli get his hands on him.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CowboysBeastMode View Post
if cordy glenn can start at left tackle in the nfl, then fluker could hold down the right. with tuck slowing down and osi gone then giants pass rush is less than formidable. kerrigan isn't a explosive pass rusher either. i think with good o-line coach he could be the next eric williams, you simply can't coach that size and length and when put in an nfl strength and conditioning program as long as he's willing to put in the work i think he should be fine, maybe you could break him in as a rookie at guard, before moving him back to tackle
I'm not saying he can't do it. I'd just rather have a dominant Guard than a good Tackle. But either way... I'd be happy to have him. OL is our priority need.

Even if Scott is bent on giving us a defender... Floyd, Vacarro and now Richardson, I really don't think Garrett is going to ignore our OL. With no money to spend in FA, the draft is our best bet.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying he can't do it. I'd just rather have a dominant Guard than a good Tackle. But either way... I'd be happy to have him. OL is our priority need.

Even if Scott is bent on giving us a defender... Floyd, Vacarro and now Richardson, I really don't think Garrett is going to ignore our OL. With no money to spend in FA, the draft is our best bet.
Hopefully you are right and this is a smoke screen.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/ar...2-4f0056a5c25a
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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It's time we build our team through the draft and not via FA. We did do well with Carr last year and he seems like he'll be good for years for us. However, it's time to focus on the draft and picking up contributors in FA.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully you are right and this is a smoke screen.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/ar...2-4f0056a5c25a
Doubt it's a smoke screen. Truly believe team thinks Bernadeu can play center with Leary stepping in at RG. High on Parnell at RT. too early in their minds to give up on Livings/Bernadeu.

Will undoubtedly convince themselves that losing Costa ruined continuity and was major factor in making calls at the line, blah blah.

This team and general manager has never valued O-line. Especially not in the 1st round. Aside from Smith, I can't think of last OL drafted in 1st. and only reason he was drafted was belief he had potential be top-5 LT for a decade.

Guards, no matter how good of prospects they are, rarely have top 20 values. Aside from that, All 5 guys I just mentioned are guaranteed to be on the team next year. Rookie Guard isn't going to have major impact of performance of the team. Again, look at DeCastro who struggled before his injury.

for a team with a new defense that has holes on the D-line and Safety, makes more sense 1st pick will be used here. Ware, Lee, Carter, Carr, Claiborne, Hatcher (final year of his deal?) are all going to be starting. Crawford likely starting. Ratliff & Sensabaugh may not be on the team. Health of Church?

1-2 spots on D-line open, certainly room for depth and rotational players. Safety truly open. And SLB, although not a need and likely filled by Albright, could also be considered uncertain.

Much more uncertainty/immediate need on defense than offense.

I can see no way Cowboys draft OL at 18. Only way I see OL in 1st is if no DL or S available worth the pick and they trade down.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Doubt it's a smoke screen. Truly believe team thinks Bernadeu can play center with Leary stepping in at RG. High on Parnell at RT. too early in their minds to give up on Livings/Bernadeu.

Will undoubtedly convince themselves that losing Costa ruined continuity and was major factor in making calls at the line, blah blah.

This team and general manager has never valued O-line. Especially not in the 1st round. Aside from Smith, I can't think of last OL drafted in 1st. and only reason he was drafted was belief he had potential be top-5 LT for a decade.

Guards, no matter how good of prospects they are, rarely have top 20 values. Aside from that, All 5 guys I just mentioned are guaranteed to be on the team next year. Rookie Guard isn't going to have major impact of performance of the team. Again, look at DeCastro who struggled before his injury.

for a team with a new defense that has holes on the D-line and Safety, makes more sense 1st pick will be used here. Ware, Lee, Carter, Carr, Claiborne, Hatcher (final year of his deal?) are all going to be starting. Crawford likely starting. Ratliff & Sensabaugh may not be on the team. Health of Church?

1-2 spots on D-line open, certainly room for depth and rotational players. Safety truly open. And SLB, although not a need and likely filled by Albright, could also be considered uncertain.

Much more uncertainty/immediate need on defense than offense.

I can see no way Cowboys draft OL at 18. Only way I see OL in 1st is if no DL or S available worth the pick and they trade down.
I don't think draft history is the right indicator to follow in regards to defining Jerry as one who doesn't value OL. He has valued OL... only that he has preferred to spend millions on them in FA versus the draft. Whether keeping our own FA OL or bringing in new FA OL, Jerry has shelled out a lot of money in the past in attempts at keeping that unit viable. So is it really fair to say he doesn't "value" OL? I don't lean that way.

Secondly, the 2nd and 3rd rounds have been a common place for us to take OL. That's showing pretty good importance imo. When we drafted Tyron in Round 1 it was because we had a major need. For years we had Flozell, so the need wasn't a 1st round need. Can you really pin that on Jerry to mean he doesn't value OL? I mean, I know it's a very popular misconception out there in Cowboys Nation, but I never invested much into it myself.

Welcome back Burns. :)
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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I don't think draft history is the right indicator to follow in regards to defining Jerry as one who doesn't value OL. He has valued OL... only that he has preferred to spend millions on them in FA versus the draft. Whether keeping our own FA OL or bringing in new FA OL, Jerry has shelled out a lot of money in the past in attempts at keeping that unit viable. So is it really fair to say he doesn't "value" OL? I don't lean that way.

Secondly, the 2nd and 3rd rounds have been a common place for us to take OL. That's showing pretty good importance imo. When we drafted Tyron in Round 1 it was because we had a major need. For years we had Flozell, so the need wasn't a 1st round need. Can you really pin that on Jerry to mean he doesn't value OL? I mean, I know it's a very popular misconception out there in Cowboys Nation, but I never invested much into it myself.

Welcome back Burns. :)
I think the fact that Jerrah's gotten burned alot by drafting OL has infected his thinking, perhaps would rather a proven thing than a newbie given their track record.

I am assuming we're going d-line rd 1 and then a day 2 pick on OL, unless they window dress like last year to replace Bernie at RG and then it could be the delusional approach of last year where we went into the draft with "no needs".
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I don't think draft history is the right indicator to follow in regards to defining Jerry as one who doesn't value OL. He has valued OL... only that he has preferred to spend millions on them in FA versus the draft. Whether keeping our own FA OL or bringing in new FA OL, Jerry has shelled out a lot of money in the past in attempts at keeping that unit viable. So is it really fair to say he doesn't "value" OL? I don't lean that way.

Secondly, the 2nd and 3rd rounds have been a common place for us to take OL. That's showing pretty good importance imo. When we drafted Tyron in Round 1 it was because we had a major need. For years we had Flozell, so the need wasn't a 1st round need. Can you really pin that on Jerry to mean he doesn't value OL? I mean, I know it's a very popular misconception out there in Cowboys Nation, but I never invested much into it myself.

Welcome back Burns. :)

Off season always brings me back! Thanks.

Sure, those are valid points and another way of looking at things. I just have a sense since joining this board there have been multiple years where many of us think OL is a glaring hole (almost every year) and we all target some beast we believe Dallas should take, and we never do. We always seem to pass on a solid foundation player for a Felix Jones or a Martellus Bennett.. It's ridiculous.

By value, I'm more referring to "Do the Cowboys think OL are worth 1st round picks" -- typically, Jerry's mindset seems to be that OL can be molded. Of course I'm just basing that off personal observation, but I get the sense he believes you can find a Larry Allen, an Andre Gurode, a Doug Free later in the draft and develop them.

He also seems to think you can take another teams trash (Columbo, Leonard Davis, Livings, Bernadeu) and develop them into something.

When simply looking at lack of 1st round picks spent on OL and the history the Cowboys have in "developing guys", I believe Jerry has the confidence in a guy like Callahan to coach up livings/Bernadeu and develop Leary/Parnell

Do I agree? No, not at all. I remember the Stephen Petermans, David Arkins, and grip of other guys who have been drafted only to never see the field and be off the team within 2 years.

But based on the teams historic trends and the switch to a new defense, I imagine Jerry would look to that side of the ball first.

Lets not forget he'd love the ego boost and "genius" that would be attributed to Garrett and himself for making the switch to Kiffin from Ryan. Although irrational, it's almost certainly something that's crossed his mind. Jerry has always wanted credit for being a great GM with a football mind. Getting success from Kiffin acknowledges that notion. Just another reason for him to try and fill the holes they created.

I would rule out Warmack for this team. As I said in an earlier post though, I wouldn't rule out trading back into the 25+ range and grabbing Cooper if they don't see an impact player on D.

I also believe Warford will definitely be around in the 2nd. Although I'm just guessing, I don't think 3 guards have ever been taken in the 1st round. With talks of DJ Fluker and Justin Pugh also being candidates at guard in the NFL, I don't think there is any need to worry about finding a guard with good, starting potential in the 2nd or even 3rd round.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Any Mayock fans? Heres his top 5 DTs in this draft

Defensive Tackle
1. Sharrif Floyd, Florida
2. Star Lotulelei, Utah
3. Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
4. Sylvester Williams, North Carolina
T-5. Kawann Short, Purdue
T-5. Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State

Pretty interesting he has Floyd #1. I knew Broddus was high on him but I dont think he was that high on him. D, I know your not to high on him at 18 but whats your take of Mayock?
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Any Mayock fans? Heres his top 5 DTs in this draft

Defensive Tackle
1. Sharrif Floyd, Florida
2. Star Lotulelei, Utah
3. Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
4. Sylvester Williams, North Carolina
T-5. Kawann Short, Purdue
T-5. Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State

Pretty interesting he has Floyd #1. I knew Broddus was high on him but I dont think he was that high on him. D, I know your not to high on him at 18 but whats your take of Mayock?
Mayock loves to hear his own voice. He also likes to make rankings that are a little on edge in order to get his stuff noticed. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. Bottom line, he's just a media guy looking to make a buck and sustain his credibility. I think he hears what goes on among draft circles and combines that with his own opinion. I like him overall.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:17 AM    (permalink
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Mayock loves to hear his own voice. He also likes to make rankings that are a little on edge in order to get his stuff noticed. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. Bottom line, he's just a media guy looking to make a buck and sustain his credibility. I think he hears what goes on among draft circles and combines that with his own opinion. I like him overall.
Also should be noted that These are supposedly his initial rankings and will change as he does more film study and of course will be altered post-combine

One thing I noticed is that he has Marcus Lattimore at 5. Many think that's too high given the medical red flags. I have no idea how long he's supposed to last but Lattimore in the 4th would be a flyer I'd be happy with as a fan.

His style actually reminds me of Murray. He doesn't have elite speed but he's a smart back. Very patient, great vision. Decisive -- makes a cut, picks his hole and goes. Physical. Has good hands and was used quite a bit in the passing game. Also able to see him pick up the blitz a fair amount of times if you watch the cut ups.

Again, he's not going to hit home runs, but he picks up chains and keeps the offense on the field. That's something I personally value more than a runners ability to break off a big one.

The tandem of Murray and Lattimore would be awesome to me. Dunbar stays as special teams/Change of pace guy. Tanner released. Absolutely loved Lattimore as a freshman, think he's quite a gem if healthy. Having a true time share between Murray and Lattimore should also give both a more realistic shot at staying healthy. Murray couldn't stay healthy in college and has missed 9 games over the past 2 seasons. I'm skeptical that will change as he gets older and takes more hits.

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Old 02-17-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Round 1 Sheldon Richardson



Sticking with Richardson in the 1st

Round 2 Jonathan Cyprien



This guy is flying up draft boards so he may not make it to us but if hes there I think he would be the answer to our Safety prayers

Round 3 Justin pugh



Played tackle for Syracuse but will probably be a guard in the NFL. I hear the Cowboys like him, not that thats a good thing lol

Round 4 Mike Gillislee



RB depth and 3rd down back. Is a hard runner, can catch, and blocks well.

What do you think? Happy or upset if this was our first 4 picks?
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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That'd be a really good draft for the Cowboys, but I doubt any of those guys actually fall to the picks. Richardson is an incredible athlete and has a non-stop motor, and I don't see him falling as far as Scott has mocked recently. Cyprien is likely to be the 2nd safety off the board, and if Vaccaro climbs into the Top 10 range, that could push him into round one to a team like St. Louis, Green Bay, New England or Baltimore. Pugh, while not having a definite spot, provides teams with the versatility of right tackle or pushing inside to guard. Pugh also has terrific tape from this past season, and I have heard he may come off the board in the first half of round two. Gillislee might be the most likely given the position, and it's difficult to gauge where backs will be picked.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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That'd be a really good draft for the Cowboys, but I doubt any of those guys actually fall to the picks. Richardson is an incredible athlete and has a non-stop motor, and I don't see him falling as far as Scott has mocked recently. Cyprien is likely to be the 2nd safety off the board, and if Vaccaro climbs into the Top 10 range, that could push him into round one to a team like St. Louis, Green Bay, New England or Baltimore. Pugh, while not having a definite spot, provides teams with the versatility of right tackle or pushing inside to guard. Pugh also has terrific tape from this past season, and I have heard he may come off the board in the first half of round two. Gillislee might be the most likely given the position, and it's difficult to gauge where backs will be picked.
Thanks fo the input. Your right, there may not be any of those guys available or all of them might be there. Thats what makes the draft so much fun. I bet Pitt never dreamed DeCastro would fall to them either. Or Bruce Irvin going as high as he did. Just never know but Im glad you like the picks ;)
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Thanks fo the input. Your right, there may not be any of those guys available or all of them might be there. Thats what makes the draft so much fun. I bet Pitt never dreamed DeCastro would fall to them either. Or Bruce Irvin going as high as he did. Just never know but Im glad you like the picks ;)
The more I watch the more I'm starting to like Elam>Cyprien. A lot of people seem to be down on Elam though.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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For those wondering...

1st OG taken: 2012-24th. 2011-23rd. 2010-17th (Iupati). 2009-51st. 2008-39th. 2007-29th. 2006-23rd. 2005-32nd. 2004-34th. 2003-33rd.

Warford will definitely be around in the 2nd round. He was particularly impressive vs. Sheldon Richardson, which is what I watched last night.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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That'd be a really good draft for the Cowboys, but I doubt any of those guys actually fall to the picks. Richardson is an incredible athlete and has a non-stop motor, and I don't see him falling as far as Scott has mocked recently. Cyprien is likely to be the 2nd safety off the board, and if Vaccaro climbs into the Top 10 range, that could push him into round one to a team like St. Louis, Green Bay, New England or Baltimore. Pugh, while not having a definite spot, provides teams with the versatility of right tackle or pushing inside to guard. Pugh also has terrific tape from this past season, and I have heard he may come off the board in the first half of round two. Gillislee might be the most likely given the position, and it's difficult to gauge where backs will be picked.
Vacarro doesn't belong in the top 10. He's not close to the prospect Barron was. I doubt any team presses that hard, always possible but there isn't anything overly impressive about him. He's the type of player I'd call solid.
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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The more I watch the more I'm starting to like Elam>Cyprien. A lot of people seem to be down on Elam though.
Elam is strictly an in-the-box safety. He is slightly undersized and his reckless style lends itself to the potential for a short career (think Bob Sanders). Cyprien is a physical safety as well, and he also has the ability to drop back in coverage, which sets him apart for Elam.

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Vacarro doesn't belong in the top 10. He's not close to the prospect Barron was. I doubt any team presses that hard, always possible but there isn't anything overly impressive about him. He's the type of player I'd call solid.
Vaccaro isn't the prospect Barron was in terms of coming up and hitting, but he does excel and is far better than Barron in terms of coverage, and Vaccaro is by no means a soft safety so the potential is there for him to work his way into the Top 10 with the Jets or Titans.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Elam is strictly an in-the-box safety. He is slightly undersized and his reckless style lends itself to the potential for a short career (think Bob Sanders). Cyprien is a physical safety as well, and he also has the ability to drop back in coverage, which sets him apart for Elam.



Vaccaro isn't the prospect Barron was in terms of coming up and hitting, but he does excel and is far better than Barron in terms of coverage, and Vaccaro is by no means a soft safety so the potential is there for him to work his way into the Top 10 with the Jets or Titans.
Why do you think Elam is strictly an in the box safety? He was used a bunch in the slot and cover 2. He's a better prospect and similar player in terms of size, speed and style to Major Wright who graded out as a top 5 safety last year.

I'm just curious if you've watched Elam play or if its just stuff you've read.

On Vacarro, I disagree. Barron wasn't drafted 7 overall because he's a "hitter". He's an all around safety w good coverage ability. He's superior as a prospect to Vacarro in almost every way. The only thing Vacarro has that Barron didnt was a background covering the slot. Still, Vacarro is a fringe 1st rounder who may get pushed up to the middle of the 1st due to overall weakness of class. No way he sniffs top 10.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Why do you think Elam is strictly an in the box safety? He was used a bunch in the slot and cover 2. He's a better prospect and similar player in terms of size, speed and style to Major Wright who graded out as a top 5 safety last year.

I'm just curious if you've watched Elam play or if its just stuff you've read.

On Vacarro, I disagree. Barron wasn't drafted 7 overall because he's a "hitter". He's an all around safety w good coverage ability. He's superior as a prospect to Vacarro in almost every way. The only thing Vacarro has that Barron didnt was a background covering the slot. Still, Vacarro is a fringe 1st rounder who may get pushed up to the middle of the 1st due to overall weakness of class. No way he sniffs top 10.
I have watched plenty of Florida and Elam, and he always impressed me when he was working forward and his objective was to knock someone out, but when it came to coverage he had his fair share of struggles. Elam will struggle if he's asked to play man coverage at all, and that's where Vaccaro happens to excel.

Mark Barron did not possess even above average coverage skills when coming out last year, he had the tendency to be a liability. I even made the analogy last year that Barron had the ball skills of a lesbian, and it came from observations of him being lost with the ball in the air. I had Harrison Smith as the top safety prospect from last year, and he proved more worth than Barron did during their rookie campaigns.

Texas's defense had big issues this past season, but Vaccaro was one of the lone bright spots, and with the way the league has become so pass oriented, Vaccaro's ability to be an asset in pass coverage will only improve his stock.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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Broaddus tweeted that Fluker reminds him of Flozell which I found very intriguing.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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This team outside of the Roy Williams draft pick, has not really valued drafting safeties in the first half of the draft. I'm hoping by bringing Kiffin in and moving to the Dallas 2 that this will change. However, we will have to release one of our current 2 starters in order to do so. Plus if we do value Matt Johnson the way it appears, we might not be going early in the draft. I have to say that I'm not sure I see us going early with the holes we have at IL and DL.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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We could still use a 2nd day guy to develop IMO, Sensy is on the decline and Church/Johnson are still question marks.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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We could still use a 2nd day guy to develop IMO, Sensy is on the decline and Church/Johnson are still question marks.
I'm all about getting a safety with our first 3 picks, I just don't see it happening.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm all about getting a safety with our first 3 picks, I just don't see it happening.
There is a lot of depth I this years class so the value should be right if we want to go that route. I can see the team using a third rounder but I agree that the first two picks would be best used in the trenches.

I really feel Jerry is going to try to move the pick even if someone like Warmack is on the board especially if he can pick up and extra 2nd in the process.

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