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Old 02-16-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
I think you might have a hard time naming 10 safeties period that are better than him.
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
1) He said top 10 FS.
Are you sure about that?
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
see all of this is hilarious, wrong and irrelevant.

But no, I've only watched all of KP's career and the Giants D is night and day without him and his play CLEARLY is overrated and he's living off the hype of being a first rounder...(pick 32 might I add). But, you can continue being wrong. And the Giants flip responsibilities with our safeties, so we're a bit odd in the labeling of which they play, but KP plays deep and has more FS jobs.

Also, he can still be "overrated' if you feel, but is still a top 10 FS in the league, regardless if you feel he's living off his 1st round pick status.

The only argument you have for him being overrated is his injury, and you didn't even use that, so the amount of wrong is pretty high up there with your perception of Kenny Phillips
I never said Kenny Phillips wasn't a top 10 safety at whichever position you classify him.

I was simply stating that DaShon Goldson is a top 10 FS. Every S has their weaknesses, you could survey 20 different people and I think you'd get around 5 consensus top 10 safeties and around 10 others that people would included.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
Are you sure about that?
Yes, I am talking about his initial statement not the following statement.

Sorry for the confusion. Comparing SS and FS is simply too hard because they have different responsibility.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Name your list of guys who will paid big yet flop big and not meet the contract expectations:

Mine are:
- Dominique Rodgers Cromartie CB
- Sean Smith CB
- Dashon Gholdson FS
- Cliff Avril DE
- Jared Cook TE
DRC- I think DRC can be good in the right system. He played well in zona but what was asked of that whole defensive backfield in Philly was laughable.

Sean Smith - I could see this one, with someone trying to get a Brandon Browner type. But he could be a pretty good price and a good fit in many systems as well

Goldson - I think he could be overpaid if a team wants him bad enough

Avril - this is one of the biggest ones, he's a slightly above average DE but will likely get paid big money

Cook - I don't think he'll see FA
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I think he'll be a Bengal
Bengals won't sign any high price FAs. They have Michael Johnson, Andre Smith, Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins that will all be due for extensions or re-signing.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Bengals won't sign any high price FAs. They have Michael Johnson, Andre Smith, Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins that will all be due for extensions or re-signing.
You think they'll invest in both DEs?

Either way, they should have money to do it all, unless they have more cap pushed into future years
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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You think they'll invest in both DEs?

Either way, they should have money to do it all, unless they have more cap pushed into future years
Yes they have the money to spend and they will have to spend so I see them keeping both of them. Mike Wallace will want way to much money for Mike Brown liking.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Okay. Here are FSs I like better than Goldson.

Eric Weddle
Charles Woodson
Ed Reed
Earl Thomas
Jairus Byrd
Tyvon Branch (plays both SS and FS)
Antoine Bethea
Malcolm Jenkins
Michael Griffin
Kenny Phillips

Players I would think about taking before Goldson:
Michael Huff
Ryan Clark
Reggie Nelson

This is a passing league and you HAVE to have able to cover the deep ball. This is one of Goldson's biggest problems.

It doesn't help that he has Donte Whitner playing next to him who has below average range. I will give you that.

In the end, Goldson is not a special player. He's in the middle 1/3 of the league in terms of free safeties. But he will be paid like he can be a cornerstone player on defense.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Charles Woodson isn't really a FS.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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This is a passing league and you HAVE to have able to cover the deep ball. This is one of Goldson's biggest problems.
Which, considering he rarely gets burned deep, (playoffs burned the image but wasn't the whole of the story) this is an arguable opinion.

His skills are legit. The question arises when you consider how assignment-sound he is.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Charles Woodson isn't really a FS.
I'm not sure if he still has it in him, but I've always thought his best position would be FS. I piss myself when I think about Chuck, at 30 years old, playing FS.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Okay. Here are FSs I like better than Goldson.

Eric Weddle
Charles Woodson
Ed Reed
Earl Thomas
Jairus Byrd
Tyvon Branch (plays both SS and FS)
Antoine Bethea
Malcolm Jenkins
Michael Griffin
Kenny Phillips

Players I would think about taking before Goldson:
Michael Huff
Ryan Clark
Reggie Nelson

This is a passing league and you HAVE to have able to cover the deep ball. This is one of Goldson's biggest problems.

It doesn't help that he has Donte Whitner playing next to him who has below average range. I will give you that.

In the end, Goldson is not a special player. He's in the middle 1/3 of the league in terms of free safeties. But he will be paid like he can be a cornerstone player on defense.
I guess it just depends what you want in a FS. To my knowledge, and by most Branch is considered a SS. Bethea hasn't had an interception since 2010-thats not what i want in a FS. Michael Griffins up and down, takes poor angles and misses tackles. Michael Huff played CB last season. I don't consider Ryan Clark close. Reggie Nelson is in my opinion not as good either.

I'd consider Goldson 6th behind Weddle, Reed, Thomas, Byrd and Jenkins
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
Goldston (No "H" guys) is a top 10 FS.
If you're gonna correct people on their spelling, you should probably make sure to spell it correctly yourself.

Goldson, no "T."
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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This is the ridiculousness of the Goldson discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Schein
some team should scoop him up and provide the five-year, $40 million deal that Weddle received. Goldson is a physical playmaker and a leader. I voted for him first-team All-Pro
Link

Goldson is not this good. And the team that thinks otherwise will be bitten by a very bad contract for a guy who gives up too many big plays.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Some of these are decent players who will be paid like they are somewhere between good or elite (i.e. Jermon Bushrod). Some are very flawed players that people think are good because they put up stats (i.e. Brandon Myers). Some are formerly good players who now suck, but will make a living on their reputations/dumbassed statements from TV broadcasters (i.e. Brian Urlacher). Some are just plain bad, but could conceivably get a starter's contract (i.e. Max Starks).

In any case, none of them will be worth what they get paid.

RB Reggie Bush
TE Brandon Myers
WR Donnie Avery
WR Devery Henderson
LT Sam Baker
LT Jermon Bushrod
LT Jake Long
LT Demetress Bell
RT Max Starks
RT Tyler Polumbus
OG Stephen Peterman
OG Kory Lichtensteiger
OC Brad Meester
S Charles Woodson
S Yeremiah Bell
S Madieu Williams
S Ed Reed
S LaRon Landry
S Craig Dahl
CB Cary Williams
CB Aqib Talib
CB Derek Cox
CB Kelvin Hayden
CB Sean Smith
CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Antoine Caon
CB Quentin Jammer
CB Cassius Vaughn
LB Nick Roach
LB Michael Boley
LB DeAndre Levy
LB Chase Blackburn
LB Rey Maualuga
LB Paris Lenon
LB Jasper Brinkley
LB Larry Foote
LB Brian Urlacher
LB Connor Barwin
LB Shaun Phillips
DE Osi Umenyiora
DE Frostee Rucker
DE Cliff Avril
DE Matt Shaughnessy
DE Robert Geathers
DT Glenn Dorsey
DT Sedrick Ellis
DT Dwan Edwards
DT Sen'Derrick Marks
DT Casey Hampton
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if he still has it in him, but I've always thought his best position would be FS. I piss myself when I think about Chuck, at 30 years old, playing FS.
He could play there, no doubt, but he probably gives too much in the box to stick him at FS. It would limit the amount of time he has doing what he does best.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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This is the ridiculousness of the Goldson discussion



Link

Goldson is not this good. And the team that thinks otherwise will be bitten by a very bad contract for a guy who gives up too many big plays.
He says Rey Maualuga is underrated. :crazy: Saying Rey "can frustrate" in coverage is like saying standing on the surface of the sun "can cause discomfort."

...and yeah, Goldson is above average, but he's no franchise player.

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Old 02-16-2013, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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I think you're thinking of Chris Culver.

:( I suck.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Goldson is not this good. And the team that thinks otherwise will be bitten by a very bad contract for a guy who gives up too many big plays.
But he doesn't. You keep saying that but the 49ers have given up VERY few big plays the last 2 + seasons. Are you making a generalization based upon the Falcons playoff game?

Goldson was beaten deep very few times the last couple of seasons. He will sometimes bite up and hang the CB out-to-dry on occasion but the CB was the one who was beaten.

I'm fine with someone not thinking he's a great safety or that he's overrated. But saying that he gets beat all the time is just a falsehood.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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He will sometimes bite up and hang the CB out-to-dry on occasion but the CB was the one who was beaten.
Um... no. If the safety is responsible for a portion of the field and he isn't covering it - then it is his fault for the result of the play (if the play goes into his vacated spot).
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:19 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Um... no. If the safety is responsible for a portion of the field and he isn't covering it - then it is his fault for the result of the play (if the play goes into his vacated spot).
True. IF you know the players responsibilities. Sometimes it's a read. Sometimes it's an assignment. Often it's difficult to tell who "blew" a coverage.

Regardless, he doesn't do it often, which was the crux of my argument.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:29 PM    (permalink
Caddy
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True. IF you know the players responsibilities. Sometimes it's a read. Sometimes it's an assignment. Often it's difficult to tell who "blew" a coverage.

Regardless, he doesn't do it often, which was the crux of my argument.
'If' it's difficult to tell, how do you know he isn't responsible for every error?
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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'If' it's difficult to tell, how do you know he isn't responsible for every error?
I don't. Nor does anyone outside of the film room.

Again, it doesn't even happen very often so even "if" it did, he doesn't give up alot of big plays as what was said.

I don't want to pay him more than Weddle, either. I'm just frustrated with the assertion that he gives up alot of big plays.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Are you sure about that?
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
Yes, I am talking about his initial statement not the following statement.

Sorry for the confusion. Comparing SS and FS is simply too hard because they have different responsibility.
@nobodyinparticular

In case reading comp isn't your thing, I stated that Goldson IS (100% imo) a top 10 FS. Then I added that you "might" (>.001% chance) have a hard time naming 10 safeties (SS included) better than Goldson. That is not synonymous with a statement that I think he is a top 10 overall safety. Equivocation on your part sir.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he's an all pro safety. Dude was exposed in coverage in the playoffs, ALL DAY. Green Bay, Atlanta, and Baltimore all tore him up.
This isn't totally accurate. Goldson is many times assigned to bite down on intermediate routes and let the Corner carry the deep responsibility. This is game planning, not poor judgement on Goldson's part.
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