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Old 02-15-2013, 10:21 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Why can't Bishop and Minter play next to each other?

I would love for the Packers to address their issues at defensive end but after Thompson spent picks on Worthy and Daniels, there's little chance they'll use a high pick on the position.
I just don't see Minter as much of an upgrade over Hawk when playing next to Bishop, honestly. I understand Packer fans want to chase Hawk out of town, but I'll take him over any LB in this draft not named Ogletree. All of the other ILBs I have the same issue with them on third down that I do with Hawk. I'd probably play D.J. Smith on passing downs ahead of Minter just like I would over Hawk.

As for the defensive line situation, I think it's more likely than you think. Thompson frequently drafts a guy not based on this year's "needs" but to head off next year's "needs". So just like Neal was drafted as an intended replacement during Cullen Jenkins' contract year, it's likely that TT will spend a high pick on a DL in a year where Wilson, Neal, and Pickett will all be free agents after the 2013 season.

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Old 02-15-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Jarvis Jones #2

Matt Barkley #7

These are the worst picks of the mock imo. No way a tweener with that kind of medical can be #2 overall, absolutely no way.

Barkley and his noodle arm will not be selected in the 1st round period.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
For one he's a 2 gap DL, probably a NT. The value on those is a lot lower than it used to be. He'll probably never get more than 2 or 3 sacks in a season and he isn't scheme versatile at all. He's a good effort guy, he can occupy multiple blockers and he has a decent bull rush. I don't hate him or anything. He just doesn't have 1st round pedigree. I'd argue he's closer to the 3rd than the 1st, but most likely settles in the 2nd somewhere on a team who can afford to reach for need, like SF as we discussed.
He is versatile and can play every spot on the 3-4 line with a great motor, and there is no guarantee Jenkins will ever be in good enough shape to be consistent for an entire game. Also if the Niners are going to use a first round pick on a d-lineman they are going to want him to play more than 30% of the snaps which is all that ICE played this year.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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I honestly think JPP and Chandler Jones will get Ezekial Ansah drafted top 5 or top 10. I can't see him making it to the Giants (please don't let it happen NFL...)
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by xstamper13 View Post
Mocking Star to the Raiders is just lazy. I get that we need a DT but we have a greater need at pass rusher. I don't see Reggie spending a high pick on a guy with huge question marks regarding his work ethic and passion for the game. This is a guy who's already quit football once and has issues with his weight. He played well against USC but it seems like everybody forgets that Holmes was playing on one leg. I would much rather see the Raiders take Jones, Moore or Werner at that spot. Hell, I'd rather us take Warmack at 3 than Star. And don't give me that 'it's too high to take a Guard' nonsense...getting a future All-Pro with your first round pick is a good thing right? Go back and do a re-draft on the past 8 drafts and you will see that about 50% of first rounders flop and that many of the players from so called 'lower value positions' would be top 5 and top 10 picks.
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Wasn't McKenzie in Green Bay when they selected B.J. Raji in the Top 10?
Don't listen to him Scott. He's just a bored Raiders fan since this is the same pick Oakland fans have seen for months now.

I am interested to know what your take is on the likelihood of a trade at #3.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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@Schupp:

Have to agree with both of these statements. I think Jones slips to the middle of the round (I've got him at #15 to NO) while Barkley will be taken in the second. Glennon, with his physical tools, will have a better shot at the first round than Barkley.


@Nobodyinparticular:

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Raiders trade down, but why? DT is a need, Star is a freakish height/weight guy who can be versatile, and I've seen some say he's the best prospect in the draft. Not too shabby, I'd say.


@Scott

Is it a foregone conclusion that Dallas will pick up a DT? What are the odds that Dallas goes elsewhere with the pick?
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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@Nobodyinparticular:

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Raiders trade down, but why? DT is a need, Star is a freakish height/weight guy who can be versatile, and I've seen some say he's the best prospect in the draft. Not too shabby, I'd say.
It's actually not so much because Star doesn't fit a need, but because the Raiders have so many needs and they are surprisingly old for a team that has been so bad for so long. This team could upgrade pretty much every position and has no NFL quality starters at over half the positions on defense.

The Raiders need multiple assets.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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I just don't see Minter as much of an upgrade over Hawk when playing next to Bishop, honestly. I understand Packer fans want to chase Hawk out of town, but I'll take him over any LB in this draft not named Ogletree. All of the other ILBs I have the same issue with them on third down that I do with Hawk. I'd probably play D.J. Smith on passing downs ahead of Minter just like I would over Hawk.

As for the defensive line situation, I think it's more likely than you think. Thompson frequently drafts a guy not based on this year's "needs" but to head off next year's "needs". So just like Neal was drafted as an intended replacement during Cullen Jenkins' contract year, it's likely that TT will spend a high pick on a DL in a year where Wilson, Neal, and Pickett will all be free agents after the 2013 season.
Kevin Minter is the #1 ILB in this draft, and he'd be a significant upgrade over Hawk. Minter has shown the ability to play in coverage as well.

I know we have those three as free agents next off-season, but I expect Thompson to look to extend Neal's stay in Green Bay because he's still young and he was a guy that TT spent a high pick on.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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He is versatile and can play every spot on the 3-4 line with a great motor, and there is no guarantee Jenkins will ever be in good enough shape to be consistent for an entire game. Also if the Niners are going to use a first round pick on a d-lineman they are going to want him to play more than 30% of the snaps which is all that ICE played this year.
I'm not big enough on Jenkins to defend him, I'm just pointing out that WIlliams is pretty ho hum. Whats his upside, Isaac SOpogoa or something? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like he doesn't have enough upside to be worth a 1st. I'd be shocked if he goes there. He does get mocked there a lot though.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
Jarvis Jones #2

Matt Barkley #7

These are the worst picks of the mock imo. No way a tweener with that kind of medical can be #2 overall, absolutely no way.

Barkley and his noodle arm will not be selected in the 1st round period.
I think you underrated both. Jones is a huge question mark. If NFL doctors don't clear him or put a severe red flag on him, he probably will drop. Tweener or not though, he's the best defender in the draft without taking the health into consideration.

Barkley isn't great, but he's a better prospect than Ponder was. QBs go high and he has experience starting in a pro style offense and showing that he can be accurate and make progressions.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm not big enough on Jenkins to defend him, I'm just pointing out that WIlliams is pretty ho hum. Whats his upside, Isaac SOpogoa or something? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like he doesn't have enough upside to be worth a 1st. I'd be shocked if he goes there. He does get mocked there a lot though.
Jenkins just doesn't fit the mold of defensive lineman the Niners have had under Harbaugh they really like the high motor high effort guys. At worst Williams is an early first to mid second round pick so if the Niners take him at 31 I don't see how that's an issue.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Wasn't McKenzie in Green Bay when they selected B.J. Raji in the Top 10?
Yes, so consider that lesson learned. DT's just don't have the same impact that DE's or OLB's do. I would hope that the Raiders take a pass rusher first (or even Warmack) and get a DT in the 3rd or 4th.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Don't listen to him Scott. He's just a bored Raiders fan since this is the same pick Oakland fans have seen for months now.

I am interested to know what your take is on the likelihood of a trade at #3.
Yes, there are a lot of 'prognosticators' that mock Star to the Raiders. It still doesn't make much sense to me though. We need pass rushers in the worst way and there is more depth at the DT position.

I don't think a trade down happens...just not anyone in this draft worth trading up to the #3 spot for.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Eagles Need Defense!
Give us Brandon Graham and we will let you have Charles Woodson & AJ Hawk.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Give us Brandon Graham and we will let you have Charles Woodson & AJ Hawk.
The Charles Woodson you just released yesterday? I didn't know you could trade players that weren't on your team.

I'm trading Calvin Johnson and Aaron Rodgers to the Chiefs.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Great pick for sf!
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Jenkins just doesn't fit the mold of defensive lineman the Niners have had under Harbaugh they really like the high motor high effort guys. At worst Williams is an early first to mid second round pick so if the Niners take him at 31 I don't see how that's an issue.
I think he lacks upside and will go later than that personally. You never know I guess, but I don't see the Niners especially going that route. I think you can find guys like Williams later in the draft.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Not interested in Sam Montgomery for the Seahawks. I think you can get a similar player in the second round. Give me Ertz or Eifert.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I think he lacks upside and will go later than that personally. You never know I guess, but I don't see the Niners especially going that route. I think you can find guys like Williams later in the draft.
Guess we will just have to wait and see then won't we sir!
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
Jarvis Jones #2

Matt Barkley #7

These are the worst picks of the mock imo. No way a tweener with that kind of medical can be #2 overall, absolutely no way.

Barkley and his noodle arm will not be selected in the 1st round period.
Do you know Jones' medical situation yet? Because I sure don't and neither do NFL teams. That is why I have opted to treat Jones as if there aren't any healthy issues. After all, the guy was cleared to play at Georgia (amongst other programs) and didn't have any problems.

As for Barkley, only time will tell. I still have trouble seeing a guy with his resume and polish sliding out of round one when there are so many teams in need of a good quarterback. With that said, Barkley's shoulder is starting to become a real concern / red flag. The guy got hurt in the middle of November, missed the Sun Bowl, missed the Senior Bowl and still isn't healthy enough to throw at the Scouting Combine more than three months later. What's going on there?
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Guess we will just have to wait and see then won't we sir!
no doubt, it will be interesting. I think the same of Montgomery fwiw.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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If Reed isn't with the Ravens next year I really like Amerson in the second round as his replacement. Losing both Lewis and Reed in one offseason would/will be tough but bringing in Minter and Amerson is a step in the right direction. Good picks Scott, now you just have to get them a pass-rusher in the third round.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Do you know Jones' medical situation yet? Because I sure don't and neither do NFL teams. That is why I have opted to treat Jones as if there aren't any healthy issues. After all, the guy was cleared to play at Georgia (amongst other programs) and didn't have any problems.

As for Barkley, only time will tell. I still have trouble seeing a guy with his resume and polish sliding out of round one when there are so many teams in need of a good quarterback. With that said, Barkley's shoulder is starting to become a real concern / red flag. The guy got hurt in the middle of November, missed the Sun Bowl, missed the Senior Bowl and still isn't healthy enough to throw at the Scouting Combine more than three months later. What's going on there?
Speaking from experience, shoulder injuries can definitely take quite a long time to heal and if you try to throw before being perfectly healthy you end up throwing a lot of dead ducks.

Giving Barkley the benefit of the doubt, it could just be that he is experiencing an injury that takes more than 12 weeks to heal which is normal for shoulder injuries.

If we don't give him the benefit of the doubt, this could end up being a Chad Pennington situation with a guy who already had an underwhelming arm seeing his power as well as accuracy sapped due to a shoulder injury that may never heal.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Not sure where else to put his, but who is the better blocker, Ertz or Eifert?
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