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Old 02-17-2013, 01:50 AM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
@nobodyinparticular

In case reading comp isn't your thing, I stated that Goldson IS (100% imo) a top 10 FS. Then I added that you "might" (>.001% chance) have a hard time naming 10 safeties (SS included) better than Goldson. That is not synonymous with a statement that I think he is a top 10 overall safety. Equivocation on your part sir.
Oh hey good one. Shupp clearly won this one. Because reading comprehension isn't my thing.

Except... I did address "naming 10 safeties better than Goldson." That's exactly what I did.

There. And it wasn't hard either.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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I don't think he's an all pro safety. Dude was exposed in coverage in the playoffs, ALL DAY. Green Bay, Atlanta, and Baltimore all tore him up.
Goldson had good games against the Packers and Ravens. Or rather, he wasn't "exposed". Atlanta sure, but he wasn't being targeted. He had one brain fart in the beginning of the game that resulted in the first 40 yard pass play against the 49ers this year. There was another play were Jones snatched a potential interception from Goldson's hands, but the entire Falcons receivers had their day in the sun against the secondary. That isn't an indictment against Goldson as a player though who wasn't even being targeted in the game that much. I believe it was Culliver.

The funny thing is Whitner is the one that has struggled in coverage at times this season and been a liability. This was obvious in the Super Bowl. Not Goldson, who quite frankly has earned his pay raise after being on the tag for two seasons.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, like others have said beware of Avril. He's the next Ray Edwards. He might work out a bit better though.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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Goldson had good games against the Packers and Ravens. Or rather, he wasn't "exposed". Atlanta sure, but he wasn't being targeted. He had one brain fart in the beginning of the game that resulted in the first 40 yard pass play against the 49ers this year. There was another play were Jones snatched a potential interception from Goldson's hands, but the entire Falcons receivers had their day in the sun against the secondary. That isn't an indictment against Goldson as a player though who wasn't even being targeted in the game that much. I believe it was Culliver.

The funny thing is Whitner is the one that has struggled in coverage at times this season and been a liability. This was obvious in the Super Bowl. Not Goldson, who quite frankly has earned his pay raise after being on the tag for two seasons.
I agree. Whitner is far worse in coverage. It makes it harder to mask Goldson because of it. That front 7 sure does a good job of masking him though.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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Oh hey good one. Shupp clearly won this one. Because reading comprehension isn't my thing.

Except... I did address "naming 10 safeties better than Goldson." That's exactly what I did.

There. And it wasn't hard either.
I didn't say it was going to be hard, read it a 3rd time if you have to. Typical RaiderHater. I feel sorry for you guys.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:15 AM    (permalink
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I agree. Whitner is far worse in coverage. It makes it harder to mask Goldson because of it. That front 7 sure does a good job of masking him though.
Not really. The front seven makes the jobs of the back end easier, but the players are still good in their own right. Or rather, they were the same as they were before. When pressure from the front seven faltered down the stretch this season that didn't make Goldson worse. And Whitner playing poorly at times doesn't boost Goldson's status as a player either. That doesn't really make sense. That's like saying it's hard to tell Kevin Kolb is a below average starter at QB because the other quarterbacks on the roster are worse. And you can still be a good player in your own regard while having other good players around you. Jerry Rice didn't mask Steve Young as a passer for instance. Both happened to be good players on the same team. Goldson is a good player on a good 49ers defense. Personally I don't think he's first team All Pro like he was labeled this season, but he's one of the better safeties in the NFL.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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Ad hominem attacks keep on coming. Good job Shupp.

P.S. You might want to go read your original post before you take this any further.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:44 AM    (permalink
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Ad hominem attacks keep on coming. Good job Shupp.

P.S. You might want to go read your original post before you take this any further.
More of a composition fallacy since I made an assumption on you based on a group you belong to. I'm familiar with my post, you're still having a problem with logical force. Lets drop it before we put everybody else to sleep.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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I didn't say it was going to be hard, read it a 3rd time if you have to. Typical RaiderHater. I feel sorry for you guys.
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Goldston (No "H" guys) is a top 10 FS. He may or may not be in the top 5 so I wouldn't say he is overrated at all. I think you would be hard pressed to name 10 Free Safeties that are better, I think you might have a hard time naming 10 safeties period that are better than him.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Goldson allowed one catch over 20 yards in the regular season. He allowed two in the playoffs, both to Julio Jones. Jairus Byrd, who many consider the best coverage safety in football, gave up two 20+ yard catches in the regular season. Ed Reed allowed seven 20+ yard catches in the regular season and three more in the playoffs.

Goldson is overrated and will be overpaid, but there isn't evidence to suggest that he struggles with the deep ball. At least not this past season.

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I don't think he's an all pro safety. Dude was exposed in coverage in the playoffs, ALL DAY. Green Bay, Atlanta, and Baltimore all tore him up.
Baltimore didn't throw at him once in the Super Bowl.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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The lack of ignorance in this thread is alarming. I have a suggestion, if you don't like a player just say your not particularly found of that player or his game. But don't make claims that this guy 'gets beat deep often' or this guy a 'liability in coverage' when obviously you have no idea how we scheme coverage or what we ask our safties to do against certain personnel and packages. How can you have two liabilities at safety, yet finish 4th in passing defense, and 1st in pass yards per attempt? And before you say the front seven, note that we were in a 4-way tie for 11th in the league in sacks and middle of the pack in QB hurries. The problems that arose in the playoffs against pass were more scheme related and CB driven than about the safeties.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Look at Goldson's coverage stats in 2012:

24/40, 303 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT, 4 PD, only two completions of over 20 yards allowed

Pretty impressive stuff. To suggest that a guy like Michael Griffin, who allowed seven touchdowns, or Malcolm Jenkins, who, like Griffin, surrendered an opposing rating of 100+, are better is ridiculous. Obviously I have some concerns about Goldson's tendency to freelance and his inconsistent year-to-year play, but I think he'd be justified in asking for at least what Griffin got from Tennessee. I agree that he's not a foundational player, but it's hard to find physical, playmaking safeties who didn't allow much in terms of deep completions. He is big enough to potentially cover tight ends as well, so that's an added bonus.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Gholdston is overrated. That entire SF secondary is. They live and die with their front 7.

I don't think Sean Smith is overrated though.
YES to this whole post. Smith is a good CB and that 49ers secondary is/was highly overrated.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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The lack of ignorance in this thread is alarming.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Michael Griffin is not better than anyone. Except Jordan Babineaux. For the love of god, Tits, please go get a new safety.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Look at Goldson's coverage stats in 2012:

24/40, 303 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT, 4 PD, only two completions of over 20 yards allowed

Pretty impressive stuff. To suggest that a guy like Michael Griffin, who allowed seven touchdowns, or Malcolm Jenkins, who, like Griffin, surrendered an opposing rating of 100+, are better is ridiculous. Obviously I have some concerns about Goldson's tendency to freelance and his inconsistent year-to-year play, but I think he'd be justified in asking for at least what Griffin got from Tennessee. I agree that he's not a foundational player, but it's hard to find physical, playmaking safeties who didn't allow much in terms of deep completions. He is big enough to potentially cover tight ends as well, so that's an added bonus.
Pretty much this minus being that impressed with Goldson's ability to take away the deep ball. I think a lot of that PFF number accumulation is a result of Goldson simply not having great range to get himself involved in a lot of plays that other safeties do. When I watch the 49ers play I see the corners challenged lot in man coverage, but the strange thing is I rarely see safety help in any of those plays. Oftentimes it's because the play was designed for them to cover a TE, or they're in single high and have jumped another route. It's not like Goldson is being old Ed Reed and taking off the top of the defense. For example, and correct me if I'm wrong, but he was in single high on that Jacoby Jones 55 yard TD. He cheated over to cover Torrey Smith, but a more natural rangy cover guy may have been able to make that play. He makes plays, but he's been inconsistent from year to year, and if a team picks him up and tries to play him like Reed or Byrd he's going to struggle.

He's going to get paid this offseason one way or another, but he's not a centerpiece in a great secondary. However, in a league where safety play is pretty awful across the board with guys like E. Smith, Babineaux, Gregory, and others starting a good safety is going to get his money. Byrd is clearly the cream of the crop for this FA safety class, but Goldson is another good one.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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On some level I'd add Revis to this list. He's gonna get paid a fortune and coming off that ACL injury there's no assurances that he's going to have the same ability to keep up in coverage.

While not overrated, he could end up being a massive contract albatross for some team.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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On some level I'd add Revis to this list. He's gonna get paid a fortune and coming off that ACL injury there's no assurances that he's going to have the same ability to keep up in coverage.

While not overrated, he could end up being a massive contract albatross for some team.
Revis isn't a free agent.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Revis isn't a free agent.
Oh, right. They were talking about trading him, not free agency.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Dwayne Bowe,Branden Albert and Dustin Colquitt...

Spread the word on how much they suck so no other team goes after them.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
It's not like Goldson is being old Ed Reed and taking off the top of the defense.
And noone is trying to say that an arguably top-10 current safety is the same type of player as arguably the greatest coverage safety in the history of the NFL.

He's also not asked to play centerfield as Reed has played iconically.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
Dwayne Bowe,Branden Albert and Dustin Colquitt...

Spread the word on how much they suck so no other team goes after them.
I think it's more the Chiefs organization and there QBs than these players
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I think it's more the Chiefs organization and there QBs than these players
I think you missed the point.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I think you missed the point.
Nope, I got it. He wants them back with the Chiefs. I think you missed the point, he hit with sarcasm so i did it back
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Again, saying that something might be hard is not the same thing as saying that it will be hard. Amazing how many people cannot comprehend basic English.
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