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Old 02-19-2013, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
he has barkley and EJ MANUEL as second round values. i dont like barkley a whole lot, but EJ MANUEL? Yeah, i dont give a damn what he says, glennon is the best QB available and its not close and i think the combine will show it.

ive gone into my thoughts on geno quite a bit in this thread, i dont feel up to it anymore but i will say that people are seeing what they want to in him and not stepping back and seeing whats there. comparing him to RGIII is shameful, the two are nothing alike as prospects to anyone but the inept.
I think you can easily say that Geno is just as good throwing the ball as RG3. The accuracy and touch is there and he can drive the ball.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Just looking at the history of the NFL Draft and the way that teams value the various positions, I'm fairly confident that the #1 pick won't be an OG or a WR. If I were going to bet on one of those positions going #1, it'd be the OG position. Patterson is pretty far from being a 1/1 WR.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Byrd430 View Post
Adam Schefter reported on SportsCenter that KC would find a way to keep Bowe this offseason, even if it means tagging him for the second straight season (@120% of his pay, correct?).

Does that take Patterson out of the running for #1?
Patterson isn't a candidate for #1.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Patterson isn't a candidate for #1.
Yes he is.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Yes he is.
Spending the 1st pick on a gifted special teamer would be a first. At this point he's not much in terms of being a wide receiver.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Far, far, far better WRs have gone quite a bit lower than #1 overall. Which WRs have gone #1 overall? Keyshawn Johnson and Irving Fryar come to mind. Am I missing anybody?

Positional value might not be a real thing, but it's perceived as being a real thing in NFL circles.

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Old 02-19-2013, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think it has that much to do with it. If there was a Stafford, or a Bradford, or even a Newton it would be case closed Chiefs are taking him, everyone agrees.
There was Geno v. Bradford talk not long ago, and it was fairly consistent that Geno is the better prospect of the two.

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how is this a true statement? If the Chiefs use a #1 pick on Smith, and he fails, there will be regret (and firings). The new contracts are less but no owner wants to find out they just wasted 23 million dollars.
Because the BPAs at #1 other than Smith are guys at positions that aren't going to make or break the Chiefs and at positions where they already have better starters. Joeckel isn't going to bring them more wins, and drafting a DL is a bigger risk than QB and doesn't bring the same value in terms of wins. Not even close. The Chiefs are in a good spot. They could completely not have a first round pick at all and still be looking good going into the season.

And no one's going to get fired over Smith failing. The ramifications of missing on the #1 pick are basically that you missed out on another player (in this case, the other player isn't going to bring a whole lot of wins compared to what they already have on the roster). The financial part of it is fairly insignificant now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Spending the 1st pick on a gifted special teamer would be a first. At this point he's not much in terms of being a wide receiver.
You're acting like he's a glorified return man. He led the Vols in yards from scrimmage last year. He averaged 15.3 yards per offensive touch in the SEC. AND he had a touchdown returning a kick as well as a punt. I see a creative OC putting him in a bunch of different situations and gaining yards in big chunks. I frankly don't really care if he can run a route tree as well as Andre Johnson right now. He can get there in time. Right now what you see is the most dangerous home-run threat in this draft, however you're getting him the ball.

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Far, far, far better WRs have gone quite a bit lower than #1 overall. Which WRs have gone #1 overall? Keyshawn Johnson and Irving Fryar come to mind. Am I missing anybody?
Yeah, and if you look at the Conference Championship games from last year, you see two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, and a 6th rounder at the most important position on the team. Teams find success from having savvy coaches and talent evaluators, not by having the number one draft pick.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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I think you can easily say that Geno is just as good throwing the ball as RG3. The accuracy and touch is there and he can drive the ball.

Yeah, that's the comparison I've been making, as passers.
I don't see much difference between their touch and accuracy, although Griffin's downfield accuracy was insane in 2011.

Arm strength is very close as well.
Both RG3 and Geno Smith bring similar skills and tools to the table as passers.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, that's the comparison I've been making, as passers.
I don't see much difference between their touch and accuracy, although Griffin's downfield accuracy was insane in 2011.

Arm strength is very close as well.
Both RG3 and Geno Smith bring similar skills and tools to the table as passers.
I feel like this comparison drastically underrates how big of an impact RGIII's ability to run affects defenses.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this comparison drastically underrates how big of an impact RGIII's ability to run affects defenses.
It's really about Geno Smith's ability as a passer not RG3's. Since Geno was never considered a run threat by defenses, his passing production at WVU is more impressive IMO because he isn't pulling safeties, LBs and corners up when he rolls out of the pocket.

He also didn't have a 1500 yard rusher next to him in the backfield.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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I'm actually very lukewarm on all of these guys who are being mentioned as top-5 prospects (except the two OGs, who I think are going to be All-Pro players). If I were Dorsey or Reid, I'd be trying to trade the #1 spot to a bad team in exchange for their 2014 first round pick and some change this year. It would be a huge gamble, but nobody is getting fired in KC for at least three years and I'd much prefer to have two chances in the Clowney/Bridgewater lottery, as opposed to overdrafting a guy like Joeckel this year.

You can't tank the season for Clowney or Bridgewater, but you can hope that a team like the Jaguars or Raiders continue to suck.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:59 AM    (permalink
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I've done a ton of work on Geno, and been a fan of his since 2011.

Considering my Chiefs have the #1 overall pick I took a step back, put my bias aside and spent multiple days watch game cut ups of Smith, Glennon, Wilson, Barkley. And I still feel like Geno is the way to go with the #1 overall pick.

It's not that he's the best player in this class. But he's the best player at a position that is of the highest importance in football.

I don't make mock drafts and top 100 boards until after the combine. But that's just me. But if I had to guess where Geno would be on mine right now he's probably somewhere between 7th and 12th.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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get fired over Smith failing. The ramifications of missing on the #1 pick are basically that you missed out on another player (in this case, the other player isn't going to bring a whole lot of wins compared to what they already have on the roster). The financial part of it is fairly insignificant now.
if Geno is picked 1 overall and he fails, that means alot of losses. Losing seasons plus the 23 million dollars is not a great way to keep an NFL job.

funny how all the Geno fans love this guy who can't function in the snow. Doesn't it snow in Kansas City? At important times of the football year?
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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If Andy Reid spends the #1 overall pick on Cordarelle Patterson, an athletic prospect with highly limited production in college, then he deserves to go 2-14 for the remainder of his career as head coach.

That would be a worse Andy Reid pick than his first round drafting of Freddie Mitchell in 2001.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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if Geno is picked 1 overall and he fails, that means alot of losses. Losing seasons plus the 23 million dollars is not a great way to keep an NFL job.

funny how all the Geno fans love this guy who can't function in the snow. Doesn't it snow in Kansas City? At important times of the football year?
He can't function in the snow? Ever? Because of the Syracuse game? One game and he can't function in the snow?

I get that you dislike Geno, but you keep making up these ridiculous comments to try to justify it. We get it bro, get over it.

And it can snow, but it isn't guaranteed to snow in December/January. It has snowed a total of like 5 times this winter season, and none of them were on a game day. Thank you, come again.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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He can't function in the snow? Ever? Because of the Syracuse game? One game and he can't function in the snow?

I get that you dislike Geno, but you keep making up these ridiculous comments to try to justify it. We get it bro, get over it.
Are you admitting that the Syracuse game actually occurred? I thought you stopped watching Geno film after Baylor. taking 2 safeties on national tv does not equal 1 overall pick.

and by the way I like Geno. I just don't like him at 1. Take him 20 slots later I like him fine.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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Are you admitting that the Syracuse game actually occurred? I thought you stopped watching Geno film after Baylor. taking 2 safeties on national tv does not equal 1 overall pick.

and by the way I like Geno. I just don't like him at 1. Take him 20 slots later I like him fine.
When did I ever say it didn't happen? Any of his bad games? I've never said he was a perfect prospect. I never said he was the #1 prospect in the draft. I know he has limitations. I like his upside. And his work ethic. And his attitude.

And you very clearly don't like Geno. It's clear by your posts.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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if Geno is picked 1 overall and he fails, that means alot of losses. Losing seasons plus the 23 million dollars is not a great way to keep an NFL job.

funny how all the Geno fans love this guy who can't function in the snow. Doesn't it snow in Kansas City? At important times of the football year?
Why can't he function in snow? 2011 vs. Rutgers Smith had 64.5% completion, 218 yards, 2 TDs and no interceptions in a snow game.

I also still contend with you that the Pinstripe Bowl wasn't an awful performance for him in terms of his NFL prospects
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Andy Reid has to take Geno.

Reid was in the exact same position in 1999 when he joined the Eagles. What was he going to do? Pick a RB with the #2 overall pick? An OL? And hope that he can find some free agent QB to stake his reputation on?

No. He had to pick the best QB prospect available to build around back then, and he has to do the same now in Kansas City. There is no decent QB on the roster and Reid does not want to build around a retread from some other organization.

Geno Smith is his new Donovan McNabb. Lots of similarities too: Big East schools, mobile quarterbacks, good but not great college careers...
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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The difference between 1999 and now is that 1999 was being compared to 1983. Everybody knew that a couple of these guys were going to be All-Pro type players. Donovan McNabb went against a very good Michigan team and lit them on fire.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Why can't he function in snow? 2011 vs. Rutgers Smith had 64.5% completion, 218 yards, 2 TDs and no interceptions in a snow game.

I also still contend with you that the Pinstripe Bowl wasn't an awful performance for him in terms of his NFL prospects
first off: that was the worst game ever and the coldest I've ever been. Also, also, only 218 yards! WE SHUT HIM DOWN
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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first off: that was the worst game ever and the coldest I've ever been. Also, also, only 218 yards! WE SHUT HIM DOWN
*hugs Scotty*

We know Rutgers is awesome buddy. We all know it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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If our idiot crew guys didn't plow the field for the 2nd half Smith would have had even less yardage in that game.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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The difference between 1999 and now is that 1999 was being compared to 1983. Everybody knew that a couple of these guys were going to be All-Pro type players. Donovan McNabb went against a very good Michigan team and lit them on fire.
Let me tell you where you are wrong. I was 26 in 1999 and I remember that off season well. No one was comparing the draft to the 1983 at the end of the college season. McNabb, Culpepper, McKnown, and Smith all ascended in the off season prior to the draft. The only QB that was thought to be a sure high pick was Tim Couch. With respect to McNabb, he was being talked about as a WR conversion project or a late round QB. Those are the facts. So McNabb's status immediately after the college season was actually significantly LOWER than Smith's.
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