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Old 02-18-2013, 05:31 PM    (permalink
CashmoneyDrew
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
I'd like to see how he does in interviews. Honestly, he hasn't come off as the smartest person from what I've seen. That, coupled with the fact that he's very unpolished as a receiver (The JUCO argument only makes a lack of smarts a more reasonable conclusion. No matter what level he was at, he still could've learned how to play football.) makes me quite hesitant. There's no denying the fact that he's an incredible physical talent, but I don't know if he'll be a world beater once he gets to the Big's. I think he would have to get into the perfect situation (i.e. being teamed up with an elite QB) for his talents to really ring true. That being said, because of his speed and agility, I don't doubt his ability to immediately make impact plays.
I don't think most teams really care how intelligent wide receivers are.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew View Post
I don't think most teams really care how intelligent wide receivers are.
Possibly, but if I look at the top 20 or so receivers in the league, they all come off to me as intelligent/well-spoken (despite whatever bone-headed things they may do on or off the field). I don't really think that's a coincidence. I don't doubt that there's a possibility he could be a top 10 pick, however.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew View Post
I don't think most teams really care how intelligent wide receivers are.


Devin Thomas.
6'2. 230#. 4.3 speed.
Can't learn a playbook. Can't do much for most teams besides play specials.
Apparently has a major learning disability.

Having a learning disability doesn't mean you're 'stupid', but teams do care what's going on with WRs from the neck up.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post

Having a learning disability doesn't mean you're 'stupid', but teams do care what's going on with WRs from the neck up.
You say that like the Redskins didn't spend the 34th pick overall on the draft on him, so I don't think that really does much for the point. He was released because he couldn't play WR.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Even if CP isn't well-spoken or "book smart" he is a good dude and I think his natural instincts and football smarts coupled with his work ethic, will allow him to overcome such a devastating disability. ;)
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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You say that like the Redskins didn't spend the 34th pick overall on the draft on him, so I don't think that really does much for the point. He was released because he couldn't play WR.
Mike Shanahan didn't draft him. VInny Cerrato did.
All Shanny had to see was Thomas blow route after route in OTAs and minicamp, fall asleep in meetings and show more interest in his modeling career than his NFL day job, and he was cut before TC was two weeks old.

Devin Thomas couldn't play WR for the SKins for the same reasons he couldn't play WR for the Giants or the Lions. He's not where he needs to be mentally to handle the position.

Even WRs need to be 'smart enough' to play the position.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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When it comes to intelligence, wide receivers really only have to learn the route tree and the playbook, which isn't that hard. There's very little decision making involved in the position. "Getting open," i.e. finding open spots in the defense is primarily instinctual, neither something you can really teach or be taught. So as long as CP can basically memorize, he's fine.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew View Post
I don't think most teams really care how intelligent wide receivers are.
See: Jerome Simpson, dumb as a stump.

Even Ocho was not smart enough to pick up the pats O quickly, so i would say it is important.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:01 AM    (permalink
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When it comes to intelligence, wide receivers really only have to learn the route tree and the playbook, which isn't that hard. There's very little decision making involved in the position. "Getting open," i.e. finding open spots in the defense is primarily instinctual, neither something you can really teach or be taught. So as long as CP can basically memorize, he's fine.
There is some amount of instinct when it comes to getting open, but a lot of it is also being able to read coverages and tell where a defender will be based on how he is moving. Especially if a team runs a lot of option routes. Even if they don't run options, whether or not you cut your 5 yard slant at 4 yards to get underneath the zone or go 6 yards to get behind it will play a big role in whether or not the receiver will get open.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I second villagewarrior's comments.

Intelligence for WRs may not be quite as important as it is for other positions, but you still have to have some to read the defenses and learn the playbooks. That being said, I think Patterson is plenty smart enough to handle his role.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Mike Shanahan didn't draft him. VInny Cerrato did.
All Shanny had to see was Thomas blow route after route in OTAs and minicamp, fall asleep in meetings and show more interest in his modeling career than his NFL day job, and he was cut before TC was two weeks old.

Devin Thomas couldn't play WR for the SKins for the same reasons he couldn't play WR for the Giants or the Lions. He's not where he needs to be mentally to handle the position.

Even WRs need to be 'smart enough' to play the position.
I never said that Shanny drafted him, I said the Redskins did. I was just implying that by your point "teams care about if a WR is smart or not" didn't do any justice by showing Devin Thomas because they spent the 34th pick on a WR who wasn't very bright at all. He just had the elite tools to work with.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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A lot of people questioned the intelligence and maturity of Dez Bryant coming out but that hasn't stopped him from averaging 957 yards and 9 td in his first three seasons.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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A lot of people questioned the intelligence and maturity of Dez Bryant coming out but that hasn't stopped him from averaging 957 yards and 9 td in his first three seasons.
Same guy who has a babysitter, ask permission ti go out on his birthday, and has a curfew?
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with guys like this:

If you can't catch passes consistently, that's a problem if you're playing WR. I don't care how fast or elusive or strong you are, if you can't catch passes consistently, you should NOT be drafted in the 1st round as a WR.

The only WRs worthy of first round picks are the Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson types who have not only the elite physical tools and size BUT ALSO the elite college production in terms of catches AND yards (which demonstrates ability to consistently catch passes).
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem with guys like this:

If you can't catch passes consistently, that's a problem if you're playing WR. I don't care how fast or elusive or strong you are, if you can't catch passes consistently, you should NOT be drafted in the 1st round as a WR.

The only WRs worthy of first round picks are the Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson types who have not only the elite physical tools and size BUT ALSO the elite college production in terms of catches AND yards (which demonstrates ability to consistently catch passes).
He's got good hands. He dropped way fewer passes than Justin Hunter this year.

Julio Jones had some problems fighting the ball in college. Some of that can be overcome with becoming comfortable within an offense and the supporting cast.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Here's the problem with guys like this:

If you can't catch passes consistently, that's a problem if you're playing WR. I don't care how fast or elusive or strong you are, if you can't catch passes consistently, you should NOT be drafted in the 1st round as a WR.

The only WRs worthy of first round picks are the Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson types who have not only the elite physical tools and size BUT ALSO the elite college production in terms of catches AND yards (which demonstrates ability to consistently catch passes).
julio jones didnt have elite college production, and a lot of people expected him to run in the 4.6s

theres no way you can really believe that guys like bowe, nicks, harvin, holmes, dez, thomas have no place in the first round just because they arent top 3-5 overall players in the draft like fitz, AJ, Calvin, but you dont have to dive in and be a top 3 WR in the NFL to warrant a first round pick
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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julio jones didnt have elite college production, and a lot of people expected him to run in the 4.6s
Julio set the single-season record at Alabama for yards (1,133) and receptions (78) in 2010. Over the course of three years he had 2,653 yards and 179 receptions. That's pretty solid production for a three year period in college.


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theres no way you can really believe that guys like bowe, nicks, harvin, holmes, dez, thomas have no place in the first round just because they arent top 3-5 overall players in the draft like fitz, AJ, Calvin, but you dont have to dive in and be a top 3 WR in the NFL to warrant a first round pick
Bowe: 89 receptions, 1413 yards in 3 years @ LSU.
Nicks: 177 receptions, 2840 yards in 3 years @ UNC
Harvin: 133 receptions, 1929 yards in 3 years @ UF
Bryant: 130 receptions, 2170 yards in 2 years @ OKST

Most of the guys you listed were highly productive in their time with their colleges. Even if none of these guys played for more than three years, they nevertheless put up big numbers in the few seasons they did play as full time starters. The ability to produce, to catch passes, was clearly there.

Patterson only has 46 catches for 778 yards to his credit in his entire college career at Tennessee. That's just not enough production to warrant a first round selection. A first round pick has to be an athletic marvel AND a productive college player, in my opinion, like Julio Jones, and Hakeem Nicks, and all of those other great WRs that came before like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. If one of those guys isn't there in the draft class, than a smart GM would be better off just picking a different position, even if he "needs" a WR.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't be upset if the Saints took him.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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Super talented but raw player. One thing I notice is he seems to let the ball get into his body in the majority of his catches. I've seen him make some nice "hands catches", so I wouldn't say he has poor hands or isn't good at catching the ball but he's going to need to adjust and use his length to his advantage at the next level.

So, refine routes, adjust the way he catches the ball and you've got a potential beast on your hands. I'd think whatever fan base gets him will be pleased. Really like that comparison made above about Jacoby Jones being his floor. Not that anyone would spend a 1st on Jones, but at least it looks like CP can contribute on ST while learning WR.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
You say that like the Redskins didn't spend the 34th pick overall on the draft on him, so I don't think that really does much for the point. He was released because he couldn't play WR.
He was being hyped by Mayock as the top WR in the draft and a potential top-10 pick. He slid in the draft.

Devin Thomas went the JUCO route for a reason, and it didn't have anything to do with talent. He grew up in Michigan's back yard and was an All-State player with elite measurables.

He fell in the draft for the same reason that he almost never played major college football.

Last edited by WCH : 02-20-2013 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:20 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Patterson only has 46 catches for 778 yards to his credit in his entire college career at Tennessee. That's just not enough production to warrant a first round selection. A first round pick has to be an athletic marvel AND a productive college player, in my opinion, like Julio Jones, and Hakeem Nicks, and all of those other great WRs that came before like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. If one of those guys isn't there in the draft class, than a smart GM would be better off just picking a different position, even if he "needs" a WR.
This is mind-numbingly dumb. Why would you even use a phrase like "in his entire career?" You know that's one season, right? Do you know that he was an All-American both years he played JC football, posting 114 catches for 1832 yards in those two years for 24 touchdowns, as well as another 400 rushing yards and 6 rushing TDs? And 6 return TDs in those two years? And then went to Tennessee and was First-Team SEC, showcasing his ability in all phases of the game en route to leading them in yards from scrimmage with over a thousand and 10 more total touchdowns? That he led the SEC in all-purpose yards? What the hell do you mean "he wasn't productive?" That he's a junior college transfer?

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Old 02-20-2013, 07:10 AM    (permalink
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This is mind-numbingly dumb. Why would you even use a phrase like "in his entire career?" You know that's one season, right? Do you know that he was an All-American both years he played JC football, posting 114 catches for 1832 yards in those two years for 24 touchdowns, as well as another 400 rushing yards and 6 rushing TDs? And 6 return TDs in those two years? And then went to Tennessee and was First-Team SEC, showcasing his ability in all phases of the game en route to leading them in yards from scrimmage with over a thousand and 10 more total touchdowns? That he led the SEC in all-purpose yards? What the hell do you mean "he wasn't productive?" That he's a junior college transfer?
I think he means he wasn't a more consistent, productive threat receiving. I feel like Patterson may be the most explosive player this year. His ability to accelerate and cut without needing to break his stride is something that you just don't find very often, and is indicative that he should be able to run very effective routes. I wouldn't be mad if he went to the Chiefs with the 1st pick.

When there's no consensus top player available and the QBs all suck, you should go for explosion.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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Meh, I don't know why you guys are arguing over a 1 year Juco wonder. Throw out the Juco stats, they are worse than D-II, D-IA stats.

Look at his measurables and how he did in the 1 year, hell look at Stephen Hill's numbers and stats. He finished his career with 49 receptions for 1,248 yards and nine. He wasn't a Juco, but that isn't great numbers in 3 years. Now how great of a player he maybe that is a different story.

But guys will get drafted and warrant a first round pick on 1 year of production and measurables. Like a certain qb that just came out recently and went number 1 overall.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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It's not about the stats. It's about his skills, what he can do. As a Broncos fan, I have a good example in Demaryius Thomas.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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This is mind-numbingly dumb. Why would you even use a phrase like "in his entire career?" You know that's one season, right? Do you know that he was an All-American both years he played JC football, posting 114 catches for 1832 yards in those two years for 24 touchdowns, as well as another 400 rushing yards and 6 rushing TDs? And 6 return TDs in those two years? And then went to Tennessee and was First-Team SEC, showcasing his ability in all phases of the game en route to leading them in yards from scrimmage with over a thousand and 10 more total touchdowns? That he led the SEC in all-purpose yards? What the hell do you mean "he wasn't productive?" That he's a junior college transfer?
The vast majority of WRs that are productive in the NFL have productive (2000+ yards, 120+ receptions, 25+ TDs) careers in college. And when I say "college" I'm talking about BCS schools or one step below. Yes, Patterson did rack up some more stats in community college, but it's hard to take numbers seriously against vastly inferior competition. If Patterson went back to Tennessee for another year and put up a monster year with a ton of receptions and yards, then I would consider him a worthy 1st round prospect.

Maybe Patterson is the next Terrell Owens: a highly athletic specimen who caught only 115 passes for 1748 in 4 years at UT-Chatanooga and was then drafted in the third round by the 49ers based on pure talent alone. This is the upside for these types of prospects. But for every Owens, there are lots of guys like Devin Thomas, Limas Sweed, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Ted Ginn Jr - all fast, athletic specimens who did not produce in college as WRs but were overdrafted based on athletic potential, and all subsequently busted in the NFL as WRs.


As a GM, why expose yourself to that kind of risk on a low-production WR in the first round? You can find athletic specimens as WR prospects in the 3rd round, and you'd expose yourself to less risk by spending a less valuable pick to gamble. With your first round pick, as a GM, you should be targeting high-quality prospects with athleticism AND production only. There are prospects that fit this criteria all throughout the first round, but at different positions. The problem GMs run into is when they lock onto a certain position like WR thinking that they "need" that position and then they overdraft / gamble on a prospect. Why take a raw WR like Patterson and risk maybe 60% or more the chance that he busts when you could grab a falling OG like Chance Warmack who has maybe a 90% hit rate based on his production or a OLB like Jarvis Jones who, with his production will hit maybe 80% of the time?

Last edited by AcheTen (Thumper) : 02-20-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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