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Old 02-19-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
scar988
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Originally Posted by dunagan15 View Post
IMO were looking for a power back to carry the ball 15 times a game and establish a running game that keeps teams honest. Were a passing team and will be for a long time, the league has changed.
No. We're not. We're not looking for a power back. Dirk Koetter's offense works best with multiple backs who can do it all. So why waste a pick on a guy who is horrible in the passing game?

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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
If not Lacy then no back in round one IMO... Gio Bernard never jumped off the screen to me and I don't think he fits what we want anyways.
RB's aren't worth Round 1 anymore anyway. Backs who got over 1000 yards last year with their draft positions.

Adrian Peterson - #7 overall
C.J. Spiller - #9 overall
Marshawn Lynch - #12 overall
Chris Johnson - #24 overall
Doug Martin - #31 overall

Matt Forte - 2nd round pick
Ray Rice - 2nd round pick
Frank Gore - 3rd round pick
Stevan Ridley - 3rd round pick
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round pick
Shonn Greene - 3rd round pick
Alfred Morris - 6th round pick
Ahmad Bradshaw - 7th round pick
Arian Foster - undrafted
BenJarvus Green-Ellis - undrafted

why waste a 1st unless i'ts a transcendant back?


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Why? Has to be a reason you're not a fan of him, just curious as to what it is?

His one season wonder? Him benefiting running behind best line in college football? Injuries? Value of running backs not being what they used to be?

Im sure its some of these things but I know you do your homework so would like a little more detail so we can have a discussion about it.
Let's see. Can't pass block. Can't catch. No threat as a receiver.
One year wonder behind the best line in football last year.
As a pure runner, he's worth a 2nd. As an all around threat, he's barely worth a 5th. The Falcons aren't looking for a grinder, so why take a guy who doesn't fit the scheme or the team in the 1st?

Also, I don't want a RB period until the 2nd at the earliest. SUCH a deep class this year that it's pointless to waste a first rounder when you can get a pass rusher or a LB like Arthur Brown.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scar988 View Post
No. We're not. We're not looking for a power back. Dirk Koetter's offense works best with multiple backs who can do it all. So why waste a pick on a guy who is horrible in the passing game?


RB's aren't worth Round 1 anymore anyway. Backs who got over 1000 yards last year with their draft positions.

Adrian Peterson - #7 overall
C.J. Spiller - #9 overall
Marshawn Lynch - #12 overall
Chris Johnson - #24 overall
Doug Martin - #31 overall

Matt Forte - 2nd round pick
Ray Rice - 2nd round pick
Frank Gore - 3rd round pick
Stevan Ridley - 3rd round pick
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round pick
Shonn Greene - 3rd round pick
Alfred Morris - 6th round pick
Ahmad Bradshaw - 7th round pick
Arian Foster - undrafted
BenJarvus Green-Ellis - undrafted

why waste a 1st unless i'ts a transcendant back?



Let's see. Can't pass block. Can't catch. No threat as a receiver.
One year wonder behind the best line in football last year.
As a pure runner, he's worth a 2nd. As an all around threat, he's barely worth a 5th. The Falcons aren't looking for a grinder, so why take a guy who doesn't fit the scheme or the team in the 1st?

Also, I don't want a RB period until the 2nd at the earliest. SUCH a deep class this year that it's pointless to waste a first rounder when you can get a pass rusher or a LB like Arthur Brown.
Ok I can understand your views about not wanting a back in the first, that fine, but to say Lacy cant pass block or catch? Did you watch his games at all? Catching the ball out of the backfield is one of his best attributes IMO.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Ok I can understand your views about not wanting a back in the first, that fine, but to say Lacy cant pass block or catch? Did you watch his games at all? Catching the ball out of the backfield is one of his best attributes IMO.
I did watch his games. Did you notice that it was never on screens and always on play actions where he was wide open?

And since when have 22 catches been enough to prove a guy has any sort of receiving skill? especially since he dropped 3 balls this year too. for a RB, that's unacceptable.

And he can't pass block. He gets run-over or keys on the wrong guy. That's a HUGE issue. He's an overhyped back who played behind a line that made him look better than he was. He's a 2nd round value, and not in the Falcons scheme. If they took him in the 2nd, I'd be ok with it. I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it. If they took him or any RB in this year's class in the 1st, I'd throw something.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm giving serious thoughts into contacting Thomas and telling him he should trade up for an impact pass rusher in the first round. Don't wait till 30. Adding an impact player on defense might be worth giving up the 2014 first rounder for. Thoughts?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm giving serious thoughts into contacting Thomas and telling him he should trade up for an impact pass rusher in the first round. Don't wait till 30. Adding an impact player on defense might be worth giving up the 2014 first rounder for. Thoughts?
Arthur Blank is that you?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm giving serious thoughts into contacting Thomas and telling him he should trade up for an impact pass rusher in the first round. Don't wait till 30. Adding an impact player on defense might be worth giving up the 2014 first rounder for. Thoughts?
if it's trading up to the top 10 for Dion Jordan? I'd be all for it. He'd be scary good in the defense for Nolan
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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if it's trading up to the top 10 for Dion Jordan? I'd be all for it. He'd be scary good in the defense for Nolan
Oh god I hate Jordan lol, obviously we have different outlook on prospects.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Oh god I hate Jordan lol, obviously we have different outlook on prospects.
yeah. mine is right. you must think Sam Montgomery is a good player.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm giving serious thoughts into contacting Thomas and telling him he should trade up for an impact pass rusher in the first round. Don't wait till 30. Adding an impact player on defense might be worth giving up the 2014 first rounder for. Thoughts?
random, but i think i heard you call in to 680 the fan this afternoon about josh smith and his trade speculation.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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yeah. mine is right. you must think Sam Montgomery is a good player.
Chill out, everyone is just giving their opinion. Last time I checked you don't work as a pro scout, even so doesn't mean you can predict the future. Respect other people's opinions. Just because you wrote a few article on a ****** sports page doesn't mean you're above everyone else.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Chill out, everyone is just giving their opinion. Last time I checked you don't work as a pro scout, even so doesn't mean you can predict the future. Respect other people's opinions. Just because you wrote a few article on a ****** sports page doesn't mean you're above everyone else.
No I get annoyed when people attack me for some ********. pro Scouts I've talked to have agreed with my thoughts on Jordan and Montgomery and Lacy. The "attack" as you put it was in response more to his saying that I didn't watch Lacy or know how Lacy played.

Seriously?

I actually watch film. Not highlights, but film, that I've gotten from coaching staffs.

And a few articles? try close to 500. Within a year's time.

If you have a problem with me, PM me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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No I get annoyed when people attack me for some ********. pro Scouts I've talked to have agreed with my thoughts on Jordan and Montgomery and Lacy. The "attack" as you put it was in response more to his saying that I didn't watch Lacy or know how Lacy played.

Seriously?

I actually watch film. Not highlights, but film, that I've gotten from coaching staffs.

And a few articles? try close to 500. Within a year's time.

If you have a problem with me, PM me.
Good job, do what makes you happy. Don't get so defensive though, all I'm saying is that you need to respect other people's opinion. We've all done this long enough to know nothing is concrete when it comes to the NFL draft, you just never know how a player will end up. You're making it sound like everything you say has to be right. Come on scar, I'm pretty sure we've all been wrong few times in the past.

I've had my say. Respond how you want, I'm done with it. Maybe it's just me, idk.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Good job, do what makes you happy. Don't get so defensive though, all I'm saying is that you need to respect other people's opinion. We've all done this long enough to know nothing is concrete when it comes to the NFL draft, you just never know how a player will end up. You're making it sound like everything you say has to be right. Come on scar, I'm pretty sure we've all been wrong few times in the past.

I've had my say. Respond how you want, I'm done with it. Maybe it's just me, idk.
His exact quote:
Quote:
Ok I can understand your views about not wanting a back in the first, that fine, but to say Lacy cant pass block or catch? Did you watch his games at all?
seriously? I wouldn't put an evaluation out there without watching a guy.

That's what I'm saying, Bos. So like I said, if you have a problem with me in particular, PM me. Otherwise, I didn't break any rules and I wasn't being a jerk. I was just giving him the same kind of disrespectful attitude he was showing me.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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His exact quote:

seriously? I wouldn't put an evaluation out there without watching a guy.

That's what I'm saying, Bos. So like I said, if you have a problem with me in particular, PM me. Otherwise, I didn't break any rules and I wasn't being a jerk. I was just giving him the same kind of disrespectful attitude he was showing me.
First off, I asked if you had seen his games. I never said you didnt. I watched 90% of Bama games and Lacy was a big part of their passing offense. Yes he isnt going to be Shady McCoy or Ray Rice but Bama was a running team so the amount of passes he caught in that offense was a decent amount.

Im not saying he is some great route runner or a Marshall Faulk, but for our offense where we are a pass first team with a very weak running game, he would be an asset. We finally this season started implementing screens which he is experienced in, we could never say that about Turner, ever.

Putting aside the negatives about him that you stated, as far as his O-line being the best(Of course it was) He still runs extremely hard, is nimble on his feet as well, has a great cut, uses his blockers well, great vision. On top of that hes a good guy, no off the field issues and just works hard.

Those are all attributes that he would have regardless of the line he is playing behind. Did he benefit greatly b/c of them, well yeah thats a no brainer. I have to ask you as well, what were youre feelings on Trent Richardson? I'm not trying to compare them as prospects but more so on outline.

Trent only was a feature back 1 year. Had the same great O-line, was big and powerful, had elite vision and first cuts, caught the ball well but not a huge amount. Didnt have the 4.3 breakaway speed an he was a blue chipper.

I loved Trent coming out and think he will be a stud in the future. No I dont think Lacy is even close to the prospect Trent was(hence why Trent went #3 and for us would put Lacy at #30) but they come from very similar scenarios. Trent was in the same offense yet his ability to catch the ball was a weapon for him in Cleveland this year.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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And no, I would never draft Montgomery. Guy has a terrible motor and a piss poor work ethic. Can be good if he wants to but disappears way too much.

Im not a giant fan on a lot of the DE's this year in the first round.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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And no, I would never draft Montgomery. Guy has a terrible motor and a piss poor work ethic. Can be good if he wants to but disappears way too much.

Im not a giant fan on a lot of the DE's this year in the first round.
At least we can agree on Monty. There's a ton of good DE's this year in the first. I have a 4th round grade on Monty, though.

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First off, I asked if you had seen his games. I never said you didnt. I watched 90% of Bama games and Lacy was a big part of their passing offense. Yes he isnt going to be Shady McCoy or Ray Rice but Bama was a running team so the amount of passes he caught in that offense was a decent amount.

Im not saying he is some great route runner or a Marshall Faulk, but for our offense where we are a pass first team with a very weak running game, he would be an asset. We finally this season started implementing screens which he is experienced in, we could never say that about Turner, ever.

Putting aside the negatives about him that you stated, as far as his O-line being the best(Of course it was) He still runs extremely hard, is nimble on his feet as well, has a great cut, uses his blockers well, great vision. On top of that hes a good guy, no off the field issues and just works hard.

Those are all attributes that he would have regardless of the line he is playing behind. Did he benefit greatly b/c of them, well yeah thats a no brainer. I have to ask you as well, what were youre feelings on Trent Richardson? I'm not trying to compare them as prospects but more so on outline.

Trent only was a feature back 1 year. Had the same great O-line, was big and powerful, had elite vision and first cuts, caught the ball well but not a huge amount. Didnt have the 4.3 breakaway speed an he was a blue chipper.

I loved Trent coming out and think he will be a stud in the future. No I dont think Lacy is even close to the prospect Trent was(hence why Trent went #3 and for us would put Lacy at #30) but they come from very similar scenarios. Trent was in the same offense yet his ability to catch the ball was a weapon for him in Cleveland this year.
Ahhh, so you are a Bama fan.

Thing is, he's not even a Frank Gore. He's Michael Turner from 2008. Which is great and all, but it's a horrible fit for the offense.

Trent Richardson was a special back. Much better than Lacy was with his vision, balance and cuts. Trent also is a 4.45 guy. Lacy is a 4.55 guy at absolute best.

However, Lacy also has a ton of issues pass blocking. That was never an issue with Richardson. That's a part that he will have to worry about. And honestly, if the Falcons wanted another Turner, they would just re-structure the current one.

I realize you're a Bama homer, but this is starting to get ridiculous. I wouldn't touch ANY of the running backs in the first. Period.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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At least we can agree on Monty. There's a ton of good DE's this year in the first. I have a 4th round grade on Monty, though.



Ahhh, so you are a Bama fan.

Thing is, he's not even a Frank Gore. He's Michael Turner from 2008. Which is great and all, but it's a horrible fit for the offense.

Trent Richardson was a special back. Much better than Lacy was with his vision, balance and cuts. Trent also is a 4.45 guy. Lacy is a 4.55 guy at absolute best.

However, Lacy also has a ton of issues pass blocking. That was never an issue with Richardson. That's a part that he will have to worry about. And honestly, if the Falcons wanted another Turner, they would just re-structure the current one.

I realize you're a Bama homer, but this is starting to get ridiculous. I wouldn't touch ANY of the running backs in the first. Period.
Im a die hard Gator fan...
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Count me in on not wanting lacy early in the draft for all the reasons scar said
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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if you want my homer pick tho, Ill take Gillislee in the 3rd
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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if you want my homer pick tho, Ill take Gillislee in the 3rd
Gillislee in the 3rd would be great. Especially if we get Okafor in the 1st.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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All I want is a pass rusher. Call me a homer, but I'd trade up if Jarvis Jones starts falling. I'm sure Nolan can find a good way to use his exceptional playmaking skills.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Michael Turner 2008 and Eddie Lacy are not the same back. Not even close.

And I like Jordan. Not a huge fan of Montgomery but if he's there and TD likes him then I am more than fine with that. But there are scouts out there who like Lacy, dislike Jordan, and like Montgomery. It's all subjective. Saying "my opinion is right" just makes you sound ignorant. Nobody knows for sure.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Ill elaborate my opinion on Jordan. Honestly he is a great athlete, great body control for a big frame, and has potential. The thing that scares me away from this guy is he is too lean. He needs to add some weight and bulk to be 4-3 DE for this team. Also, what i can't get over is there always seems to be a DE each year that is super athletic, good speed, had alot of sacks, etc that just dont do a thing in the pros. (he just reminds me so much of Michael Johnson and Aaron Maybin leading up to their drafts) so players that fit his mold I just dont like.

Unless its a Clowney type guy, give me a guy that can hold the anchor and get 8-10 sacks a year and I'm happy. Thats 8-10 more that we seem to never get when we need em.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Let's not make the discussion about him, but Michael Johnson has improved every year in the league and has actually enjoyed a 12 sack season last year. He is a great example of a raw athlete at the position who could be more successful in the pros.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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IMO Jordan would play LB for us and most teams. Little chance he sticks as a pure pass rusher IMO.
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