2012 Pittsburgh Steelers Discussion

[Hines]

I see no way the Steelers invest in another first round OL.

[mikehop05]

i'd be hesitant to draft a mingo or a ansah... these raw players that need to be 'coached up'

it just seems like we have a poor track record of drafting good athlete type pass rushers and can never quite "coach them up" to the level of a good player

maybe its the players but it just makes me nervous

[K Train]

ansah would be a terrible pick and would fail in this defense. Mingo i think could be a real factor from day one, his production at DE was hindered by his size at LSU, but he could be an absolute ******* monster at OLB.

Imo Mingo>>>>Aldon Smith

[mikehop05]

Originally Posted by K Train

ansah would be a terrible pick and would fail in this defense. Mingo i think could be a real factor from day one, his production at DE was hindered by his size at LSU, but he could be an absolute ******* monster at OLB.

Imo Mingo>>>>Aldon Smith

yeah dont get me wrong i do love me some mingo... dude has amazing potential

i just worry about some of our other picks of players that were considered "raw" that never panned out at OLB

[mikehop05]

would anyone else not hate taking one of those big TE's in the first?

if patterson is gone i think ertz or eifert would contribute more to the team than say a keenan allen would at #17...

granted we take an offensive playmaker

[Smooth Criminal]

Steelers can use help in so many spots this draft could literally be anything. They really need to go into this draft and come out with help at receiver, RB, G, and can use help on every level of the defense.

NFL network saying Miller could be out all of next season.

[Burden]

Apparently Jarvis Jones medicals did not come out well yesterday and some draftniks are talking about a Da'quan Bowers type fall for him now. Do you see this happening?

[Hines]

Originally Posted by Burden

Apparently Jarvis Jones medicals did not come out well yesterday and some draftniks are talking about a Da'quan Bowers type fall for him now. Do you see this happening?

Just depends on what the team doctors say. If they're comfortable with him in the first round, he will go there. If not, then yes, he can fall.

[Hines]

As much as I want Cordarrelle Patterson or Keenan Allen in the first, there are SOOOOOO many second round WRs though that could do a lot better.

Justin Hunter, Stedman Bailey, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, etc. That would let us go at any position in the first.

[brat316]

I'm all over the place this year with second rounders and first.

I was thinking Cb/S back to back, first second. But now watching the WR damn I don't want to miss out on a few of these guys.

Also a late round triangle number WR, would be whats his name from FSU, just like that height of 6'4, we need a big target WR, with Heath being questionable.

[AcheTen]

Mingo and Ansah are both horrible picks.

I would want no part of a guy with such little college production. All of the great pass rushers in NFL history (or at least 90% of them) have put up like 18+ sacks MINIMUM in college (and most have alot more - like 30+) and 20+ TFL MINIMUM as well, with the great ones putting up 50+.

If I'm the Steelers, I want to draft Jarvis Jones or Damontre Moore if they slip into the middle of the first round, and basically nobody else has any potential to be a great pass rusher in this draft.

[Hines]

As of now, here are how I'd react to draft picks in the first round:


Running down the street screaming:

Jarvis Jones
Damontre Moore
Kenny Vaccaro


Fist pump:

Keenan Allen
Jonathan Cooper
Chance Womack


Not mad, not happy:

Manti Te'o
Tyler Eifert
John Jenkins
Mingo


Mad:

Ziggy Ansah
Tavon Austin (trade down, if anything)
Jesse Williams

[AcheTen]

I agree with your list, but I wouldn't necessarily be mad with Tavon Austin.

This kid is the best WR in the draft class and will be a better version of DeSean Jackson in the NFL.

[brat316]

We won't spend a first on a guard. We were the only team to used 2 first on guard/center in the last few years.

I want a proven pass rusher if we pick on in the first....which we need desperately. Same with the later round picks, proven players. We need depth right now, not potential guys, yet. We have our stable full of potential guys, but none that can play cause they do it well.

This is also the year we can walk away with a big Cb, the top 4/5 guys are bigger the 6'1 so there is no way we can pass them up.

[steelernation77]

Originally Posted by AcheTen

Mingo and Ansah are both horrible picks.

I would want no part of a guy with such little college production. All of the great pass rushers in NFL history (or at least 90% of them) have put up like 18+ sacks MINIMUM in college (and most have alot more - like 30+) and 20+ TFL MINIMUM as well, with the great ones putting up 50+.

If I'm the Steelers, I want to draft Jarvis Jones or Damontre Moore if they slip into the middle of the first round, and basically nobody else has any potential to be a great pass rusher in this draft.

Of 2012's regular season top 5 sack leaders, one had 18+ sacks in college (Von Miller). The other four are J.J. Watt, Aldon Smith, Cameron Wake and Clay Matthews.

[AcheTen]

Originally Posted by steelernation77

Of 2012's regular season top 5 sack leaders, one had 18+ sacks in college (Von Miller). The other four are J.J. Watt, Aldon Smith, Cameron Wake and Clay Matthews.

Cameron wake and Clay Matthews both played 4-3 OLB in college so the rule doesn't apply to them because they weren't rushing the passer in college. (whereas Mingo and Ansah were)


JJ Watt played DT in college, but had 11.5 career sacks. Aldon Smith had something like 17 and we still don't know if he's a fluke product of Justin Smith or not.

And JJ Watt had a ton of TFL in college (33+ I think) so that mitigates his low number of sacks, because usually the elite players have ONE or the OTHER or BOTH in their college careers.

Mingo and Ansah clearly have neither the sacks nor the TFL and are thus 90% likely to be busts.

[steelernation77]

Originally Posted by AcheTen

Cameron wake and Clay Matthews both played 4-3 OLB in college so the rule doesn't apply to them because they weren't rushing the passer in college. (whereas Mingo and Ansah were)


JJ Watt played DT in college, but had 11.5 career sacks. Aldon Smith had something like 17 and we still don't know if he's a fluke product of Justin Smith or not.

And JJ Watt had a ton of TFL in college (33+ I think) so that mitigates his low number of sacks, because usually the elite players have ONE or the OTHER or BOTH in their college careers.

Mingo and Ansah clearly have neither the sacks nor the TFL and are thus 90% likely to be busts.

Watt may have played some DT at Wisky but he played primarily DE. You are right though about his high TFLs. Matthews played a stand-up DE position at USC. Smith had 14.5.

I like college production too, but it's not a perfect predictor the way you are presenting it.

[mikehop05]

watching the wr's i came away the most impressed with robert woods - him and the whitey from duke are by far the two smoothest pass catchers i watched yesterday

i also saw whitey play a bit on our (joke of an) acc network for football and im not sure he ever dropped a pass

i saw somewhere someone made the comparison of woods to reggie wayne and i think thats 100% spot on- both just super solid guys who won't wow you with their measurable but neither seem to have any glaring holes in their game - just solid imo

[AcheTen]

Originally Posted by steelernation77

Watt may have played some DT at Wisky but he played primarily DE. You are right though about his high TFLs. Matthews played a stand-up DE position at USC. Smith had 14.5.

I like college production too, but it's not a perfect predictor the way you are presenting it.

It actually is though.

If you want an elite player in the NFL, there is like only a 5-10% chance that you can get one if you ignore college production.

Look at NFL history. The numbers are very stark. You absolutely have to pick a guy with certain level of college production, or you risk getting a bust.

Of course, even the guys with high production can bust, but the chances are MUCH lower in that situation.

[steelernation77]

When's Jamie Collins from So Miss expected to be drafted? Solid numbers from college and a crazy broad jump. Looks like a good OLB prospect.

[Hines]

Originally Posted by mikehop05

watching the wr's i came away the most impressed with robert woods - him and the whitey from duke are by far the two smoothest pass catchers i watched yesterday

i also saw whitey play a bit on our (joke of an) acc network for football and im not sure he ever dropped a pass

i saw somewhere someone made the comparison of woods to reggie wayne and i think thats 100% spot on- both just super solid guys who won't wow you with their measurable but neither seem to have any glaring holes in their game - just solid imo

Yes, I would love Woods or even Justin Hunter in the second round.

[Hines]

Almost end of Combine mock:

1) Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
2) Robert Woods WR USC
3) Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
4) Jamie Collins OLB Southern Miss
5) Jake Stoneburner TE Ohio State
6) Michael Mauti LB Penn State
7a) Landry Jones QB Oklahoma
7b) Xavier Nixon OT Florida

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Hines

Almost end of Combine mock:

1) Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
2) Robert Woods WR USC
3) Montee Ball RB Wisconsin
4) Jamie Collins OLB Southern Miss
5) Jake Stoneburner TE Ohio State
6) Michael Mauti LB Penn State
7a) Landry Jones QB Oklahoma
7b) Xavier Nixon OT Florida

cant complain about that. Why are you so high on Vaccaro? I like him and all and i think hes a good pick, but the safety class is stacked just not very top heavy.

I still like Jones/Mingo/Jordan/Allen/Patterson in 1

Woods or Hunter would be sweet picks in 2

I like Bernard more and more lately, Ball just doesnt seem like hes gonna be the main guy for a team.

I hated on Landry Jones for YEARS now but thats awesome value in the 7th.

[Hines]

I like Vaccaro because he's the type of S that fits in the NFL these days. He's big, fast, can play high, in the box and can plays in the slot. He needs to work on his tackling, but that can be taught with good coaching. I like a lot of safeties this year, but Vaccaro is the best one IMO. He can match up very well against these freak TEs that the NFL has now.

If the Steelers traded down and got Elam/Jefferson, I'd be more than OK with that.

[AcheTen]

I don't think Mauti and Jones will be their in the 6th and 7th respectively.

Mauti is widely considered a 3rd or 4th round prospect and Jones will definitely be picked before the 5th round.