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Old 02-22-2013, 09:04 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
It's the situation. They decided to go with the LT over the QB, and look where they are now. I don't want the Chiefs to repeat that mistake.
Geno Smith is no Matt Ryan though. Ryan was widely considered a Top 5 caliber pick while Geno Smith is considered by many as the top quarterback in a weak quarterback class and doesn't even draw a first round grade from many draft experts. This draft can't really be compared to any of recent memory because there is no "elite" talent paired with no quarterback deserving of the top spot. It's unique but in a bad way for Kansas City.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
As for Jake Long vs Matt Ryan, they actually were both good picks, by the standard of the draft. If you take a guy and he goes to 4 pro bowls in his first 5 years (with 1 All pro selection) it was a fine pick. Remember some picks are absolutely worthless (like Brady quinn for example). By the standards of the draft both were good picks. Whoever picked Jake Long (Parcells/Ireland) can feel good about that pick. It panned out and so did Matt Ryan. I don't believe it's such a huge regret to take a 4x Pro Bowler in rd 1. There are much worse regrets historically.
The fact that you keep mentioning # of pro bowls so much is hilarious. I don't know why you haven't picked up on that yet.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
Ryan was widely considered a Top 5 caliber pick while Geno Smith is considered by many as the top quarterback in a weak quarterback class
Matt Ryan was considered the top QB in a weak QB class

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16038
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Seriously man, like others have said, Pro Bowls these days hardly mean anything. The only personal achievement he has is his 1 All Pro selection. Which even then doesn't mean **** when your team isnt winning games or getting better each year. LT just dont win you ball games. They protect the guy that is supposed to win you ball games.

If you have any need for a QB whatsoever and he is at least a 1st round grade and an improvement over what you currently have its a no brainer. Draft they guy. I'd much rather live with a mediocre/serviceable LT and solid QB than an amazing Pro Bowlzzzzz and All Prozzzzzzz LT with a horrible QB (see Brady Quinn) or any other Chiefs QB over the past 5-7 seasons.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
Matt Ryan was considered the top QB in a weak QB class

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16038
Overall the 2008 QB was weak, but Matt Ryan was the unquestioned top guy and Joe Flacco carried a first round grade, and for the sake of this discussion we're concerned about the top end guys.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
Matt Ryan was considered the top QB in a weak QB class

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16038
Man its funny going back and reading this
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Ryan was not widely considered a top 5 caliber pick and Joe Flacco carried a 2nd round grade on draft sites. Brian Brohm and Chad Henne were commonly ranked ahead of Flacco. 2008 was just like 2013, with people saying no QB was worth a high pick.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Roddoliver View Post
Ryan was not widely considered a top 5 caliber pick and Joe Flacco carried a 2nd round grade on draft sites. Brian Brohm and Chad Henne were commonly ranked ahead of Flacco. 2008 was just like 2013, with people saying no QB was worth a high pick.
Mel Kiper gets a lot of crap around here, but I remeber he had Ryan tabbed as a high pick and he was also very high on Joe Flacco.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Mel Kiper gets a lot of crap around here, but I remeber he had Ryan tabbed as a high pick and he was also very high on Joe Flacco.
I don't have a problem with Kiper, I actually like his honesty during draft coverage. Every draftnik will have tons of mistakes just like the general managers that make the picks. If you search this forum and other draft sites, you'll see the mass reaction back in 2008 was "this class does not have a franchise QB, Matt Ryan is just 'meh' and some desperate team will move him up."
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Man its funny going back and reading this
Reading that 2007 thread on Matt Ryan is why I love this board.!! Projecting what kind of pro a college player is going to be in the future is both exciting and maddening at the same time.

Man I loved Andre Woodson. And Brian Brohm. And Colt Brennan.
I didn't have any special tingly feelings for Matt Ryan.

That's why I said I don't really think there's that much difference as pro prospects between Geno Smith and Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is taller, that's about it. However Ryan really blossomed in the pros.
He's one of those guys who's without a doubt a better NFL player than he was as a collegian.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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whomever said "scared money don't make money" originally summed it up the best. You make 0 progress as a franchise swapping Joeckel in for Albert and continuing with Matt Cassel as your QB. that does absolutely nothing.

and i'll stop you all before you say it: No. Bringing in Alex Smith isn't the answer.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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whomever said "scared money don't make money" originally summed it up the best. You make 0 progress as a franchise swapping Joeckel in for Albert and continuing with Matt Cassel as your QB. that does absolutely nothing.

and i'll stop you all before you say it: No. Bringing in Alex Smith isn't the answer.
Bringing in Alex Smith for a year while Geno or whichever QB Kansas City selects develops would be the smartest decision for Kansas City.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Bringing in Alex Smith for a year while Geno or whichever QB Kansas City selects develops would be the smartest decision for Kansas City.
well that would, yes. I'm talking about Alex Smith as a long-ish term solution. Or Alex Smith while drafting like Tyler Bray as a late round project.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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between 2009 and 2003 there were 10 QBs drafted that were "Franchise QBs", IMO. i'm not counting any QBs drafted since 2009 to give them at least a few years of development before we anoint them as such. indraft order with the round selected: 2009 Matt Stafford 1st, 2008 Matt Ryan 1st, Joe Flacco 1st, 2006 Jay Cutler 1st, 2005 Aaron Rodgers 1st, 2004 Eli Manning 1st, Philip Rivers 1st, Ben Roethlisberger 1st, Matt Schaub 3rd, 2003 Carson Palmer 1st.

a couple things i notice: #1) everyone but Matt Schaub was drafted in the 1st round. meaning that everyone knew about this prospect. everyone had been there to scout him and watched all his tape. he wasn't a surprize player in the Tom Brady mold.
#2) only 1 year had no "Franchise QBs" drafted, 2007. 2 were drafted in the 1st that year, but neither had any success at all.

in those 7 seasons, only 1 draft was totally devoid of at least 1 Franchise QB. 10 QBs in 7 drafts. not the best of odds. with the #1 pick, the Chiefs have the pick of the litter. there is a high probability that at least 1 guy in this draft becomes a good QB. there is a high probability that this guy is a known prospect that will be drafted in the 1st round. the Chiefs have the FO in place to find that guy and the opportunity to swing for the fences. as Mat said earlier,
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Swing and miss is one thing and standing and watching three called strikes with the bat on your shoulder is quite another.
i know most other fans don't understand this logic. i get it. it might be flawed as hell, but your team has tryed at some point in the last 30 years to get a franchise QB. the Chiefs haven't. my entire life has been spent rooting for another teams BU that we traded for. occasionally that worked out, Montana and Trent Green come to mind. most of the time, it did not. the list of QBs to start a game for the Chiefs over the last few years is pathetic.
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QB's started for KC since Trent Green:
Damon Huard
Brodie Croyle
Tyler Palko
Kyle Orton
Matt Cassel
Brady Quinn
Tyler Thigpen
now, go back and look at the SB winning QBs over the last 10 or so years. damn near all of them are 1st round QBs. heck, most of them are on the list at the top of this post. you gotta take a chance in order to put yourself in the position to succeed. best quote in this thread yet,
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scared money don't make money
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Bringing in Alex Smith for a year while Geno or whichever QB Kansas City selects develops would be the smartest decision for Kansas City.
Alex Smith isn't going to go somewhere for a year. He's not going to go somewhere that's trying to replace him.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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well that would, yes. I'm talking about Alex Smith as a long-ish term solution. Or Alex Smith while drafting like Tyler Bray as a late round project.
I don't think Bray will be a late round project. He will probably get the Mallet treatment and get dropped due to his character concerns to the 3rd round. I don't think he would of come out if his draft projection was lower than a 3rd rounder at worst.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith isn't going to go somewhere for a year. He's not going to go somewhere that's trying to replace him.
Where's Alex Smith going to be able to go where they can tell him he's going to start for more than one season? He's a stop-gap option wherever he ends up.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Where's Alex Smith going to be able to go where they can tell him he's going to start for more than one season? He's a stop-gap option wherever he ends up.
Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo, NYJ, and KC if they opt to not take a QB in the first. If the 49ers just let him go (don't think they will, which is why I don't think he'll be on a different team next year), he has a lot of options.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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scared money don't lose money either

it's great that fans want their team to swing for the fences.

If your job (ability to pay bills, buy food, send kids to college) was on the line you'd probably think differently than "scared money don't win money".
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo, NYJ, and KC if they opt to not take a QB in the first. If the 49ers just let him go (don't think they will, which is why I don't think he'll be on a different team next year), he has a lot of options.
All those teams are in the same boat as Kansas City, they're looking for a young signal caller and Smith would be a stop gap and not a solution. Kansas City, out of all those teams, has enough talent to compete for a playoff spot next season, and that would help his stock more than anything.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
vidae
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scared money don't lose money either

it's great that fans want their team to swing for the fences.

If your job (ability to pay bills, buy food, send kids to college) was on the line you'd probably think differently than "scared money don't win money".
Clark Hunt isn't going to fire Dorsey or Reid if they miss on a QB. Clark knows QB is the #1 need. Anyone with half a brain knows that QB is the #1 need. I think he'd be happy that we're at least TRYING TO FIX IT.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
scared money don't lose money either

it's great that fans want their team to swing for the fences.

If your job (ability to pay bills, buy food, send kids to college) was on the line you'd probably think differently than "scared money don't win money".
if my job was on the line I think I'd do more than let my stud LT walk and replace him with a rookie while still having the largest of black holes in the universe at QB. but that's just me.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:41 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Oakland, Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo, NYJ, and KC if they opt to not take a QB in the first. If the 49ers just let him go (don't think they will, which is why I don't think he'll be on a different team next year), he has a lot of options.
Smith would not be more than a one year seat warmer for Oak. If Palmer restructures his contract, he's the best option. No one is getting anywhere with a stop gap like Smith.
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R4L does security, and strips on the weekend.
He told me the best part is being able to wear the same uniform to both jobs.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
King Carls 5 Year Plan
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
scared money don't lose money either

it's great that fans want their team to swing for the fences.

If your job (ability to pay bills, buy food, send kids to college) was on the line you'd probably think differently than "scared money don't win money".
scared money does lose money. Arrowhead is EMPTY! revenue is going down each and every year because the fans are sick of it. why support a team that isn't willing to support itself? KC is a football town. the Chiefs rule everything, but Clarks pockets will feel it if he decides to let another Franchise QB go by us in the draft.

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the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result
everyones heard that quote. its time for the Chiefs to try something different and expect a different result. drafting #1 overall isn't as near the set back it used to be. you could make an all time bad mistake this year and correct it next year with 1 pick.

Last edited by King Carls 5 Year Plan : 02-22-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
Robcards
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
Clark Hunt isn't going to fire Dorsey or Reid if they miss on a QB. Clark knows QB is the #1 need. Anyone with half a brain knows that QB is the #1 need. I think he'd be happy that we're at least TRYING TO FIX IT.
And history shows that teams that draft based on need are the most successful ones, oh wait.

Seriously, if I'm a Chiefs fan I would be absolutely irate with them lighting a match to the #1 overall pick with a QB. BPA drafting is the proven way to success, not reaching based on need.
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