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Old 02-23-2013, 01:13 AM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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If we go DT in the 1st I'd like to address DE, S, OG, and maybe CB in rounds 2-4. The order in which we pick them I'd just base off of what has the best value at that particular pick.
Yeah, I think Carradine is an elite talent if he weren't for his injury.

As for S, I am undecided on this. George Wilson was a huge get for us, he graded out as the 8th S by PFF last season. With Markelle Martin, I wonder if we will wait. Afterall, the past few years it's seemed like we've went with BPA instead of needs anyway. Because we've needed interior line, DE, and S for a few years now.

Ultimately, I think there will be value at safety in the 4th and early 5th rounds.

Carradine is just a beast, He's my favorite DE since I raved about JPP years ago. I know he may have to sit out the first 6 games of the season, but to me in the 2nd round he's worth that. If he's healthy, I think he's the best DE in the class and one of the most versatile. He's basically Ezekiel Ansah without the question marks.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Personally, I think Carradine will be long gone by the 3rd. I think when all is said and done he will be a late first to mid 2nd. Swearinger and Cyprien are the same, I think Cyprien will be early 2nd to late 2nd and Swearing late 2nd to mid 3rd
But I got him in the 3rd of the forum mock! :D
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I know that was a steal lol.

I think once his health is established he'll start ascending up the boards
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Star came in a bit smaller than expected at 6'2 311lbs.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Star came in a bit smaller than expected at 6'2 311lbs.
I was very surprised by this, he looks a lot bigger on film. He plays bigger, so I can't say this really effects my thoughts on him. But still I think a 6'4" 330 pound DT is more appealing, with the players we currently have, than the 6'2" 311 that Star actually is
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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That size is still perfectly fine in our scheme. It doesn't change the fact that he has great strength.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Wow, so this happened...

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Utah DT Star Lotulelei, projected top five 5 draft pick, will not work out after echocardiogram detected heart condition. Filed to ESPN.

Lotulelei's left ventricle is pumping at 44 percent efficiency - normal range is 55-70 percent. He will undergo more tests in Salt Lake City
https://twitter.com/mortreport/statu...06512301948928

Also Richardson putting up 30 reps is a really good number for him.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Looking more and more like Warmack to me. I just hope we don't have to trade up to get him...
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Casserly had us taking Mingo (the ****?) in his mock draft. Looks like an OLB to me at his size.

Billick's mock had Warmack going to Philly and had us taking Jon Cooper.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I grade out Cooper and Warmack about the same, but I still don't see us picking either one at #10. I'd still give the edge to Floyd, Richardson, and Ansah at this point. Still a lot of time left though.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty content this year (at least to this point) because I'll be fine with us taking just about anyone. Warmack, Cooper, Richardson, Floyd, Ansah, Werner, Patterson. I'm a little iffy on the corners, but I can't say that I'd be upset with Milliner. About the only player I wouldn't be happy about, that I've seen mocked to us a couple of times, is Vaccaro. I don't view him as a top 10 talent at all.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty content this year (at least to this point) because I'll be fine with us taking just about anyone. Warmack, Cooper, Richardson, Floyd, Ansah, Werner, Patterson.
I tend to agree (although I'm slow in the researching process this year). I guess one thing I wanna look closer at is what kinda shape will we likely be in for the 2nd round in some spots (namely O and D lines).

OG may not be real strong in the 2nd? Could we take a C? Convert to OG? Put Valesco at OG? Munch makes it sound like OG is a serious spot of need...
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Wow, so this happened...


https://twitter.com/mortreport/statu...06512301948928

Also Richardson putting up 30 reps is a really good number for him.
Ooooh... That'll be interesting to watch, but I don't think it'll hurt him much at all. Sucks that him and Jarvis Jones have health issues.

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Casserly had us taking Mingo (the ****?) in his mock draft. Looks like an OLB to me at his size.

Billick's mock had Warmack going to Philly and had us taking Jon Cooper.
Casserly is a coke fiend, so we should remember that when listening to him.

I have Mingo as an OLB too. Similar to Ayers coming out. A standup player who can put his hand down in passing situations. I'd hate to see him bulk up to play DE. I don't see the awe inspiring explosiveness that he's supposed to have, and if I don't see it when he's in the 240 range, what will it be like when he gains 25 pounds? Yuck.

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I tend to agree (although I'm slow in the researching process this year). I guess one thing I wanna look closer at is what kinda shape will we likely be in for the 2nd round in some spots (namely O and D lines).

OG may not be real strong in the 2nd? Could we take a C? Convert to OG? Put Valesco at OG? Munch makes it sound like OG is a serious spot of need...
In the 2nd, we could be looking at Kyle Long (who I think Munch will absolutely love), Barrett Jones, Travis Frederick, Larry Warford, Dallas Thomas, and Brian Winters. That's an extremely strong group, in my opinion. Much better than the DL group.

Long and Thomas are OT's who project to OG as well.

Jones and Frederick are C's who project to either C or OG. Jones could even swing to RT if need be.

Larry Warford and Brian Winters are pure OG's in my opinion.

On DL, there's Tank Carradine, Alex Okafor at DE, and Kawann Short, Sylvester Williams, and Brandon Williams at DT. Maybe Jonathan Hankins falls. I'd rank them Carradine, Hankins, then Okafor.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Ooooh... That'll be interesting to watch, but I don't think it'll hurt him much at all. Sucks that him and Jarvis Jones have health issues.

In the 2nd, we could be looking at Kyle Long (who I think Munch will absolutely love), Barrett Jones, Travis Frederick, Larry Warford, Dallas Thomas, and Brian Winters. That's an extremely strong group, in my opinion. Much better than the DL group.

Long and Thomas are OT's who project to OG as well.

Jones and Frederick are C's who project to either C or OG. Jones could even swing to RT if need be.

Larry Warford and Brian Winters are pure OG's in my opinion.

On DL, there's Tank Carradine, Alex Okafor at DE, and Kawann Short, Sylvester Williams, and Brandon Williams at DT. Maybe Jonathan Hankins falls. I'd rank them Carradine, Hankins, then Okafor.
It'll definitely be interesting to see how the Star situation plays out. It could come back that its not a big deal or it could end up being serious and drop him multiple rounds. I hope for his sake that its either not a big deal or its something that is fixable. Can't mess around with heart issues.

Like a lot of people here, I'd be fine with most of the picks at 10. If we get a big ugly I'll be happy.

But as TH laid out, I think there is better value in round 2 for OL than DL. Honestly, both line classes are really strong, but I see some potential DL studs at 10, which are harder to come by. A lot of those interior OL guys that could be there in round 2 look like they could become very good.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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My point was what are they specifically looking for? If Munch says OG is our #1 need and Webster says he's open to OG at 10, are we talking pure OG's? Dominant OG's? If that's the case, it doesn't look as deep as d-line in 2-3 (no shock I know, comparing DE's + DT's to OG's). They may not care as much to trust the #1 need to a guy who would have to switch positions. Otoh, I know some of the guys have done that in college, so they may get consideration.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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My point was what are they specifically looking for? If Munch says OG is our #1 need and Webster says he's open to OG at 10, are we talking pure OG's? Dominant OG's? If that's the case, it doesn't look as deep as d-line in 2-3 (no shock I know, comparing DE's + DT's to OG's). They may not care as much to trust the #1 need to a guy who would have to switch positions. Otoh, I know some of the guys have done that in college, so they may get consideration.
I think OG is clearly our biggest need, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to go there at #10. I read Webster's comment as basically saying they won't rule someone out because of position, but that still doesn't mean it will necessarily be the best value at #10. At this point in the process he's going to say they are open to anything because it keeps his cards close to the chest.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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I know my player values are often different from others around this forum, but I'm usually pretty accurate in prediciting where a player will go.

I don't think anyone can come out and say that Warmack isn't a great Guard, but I don't see any elite status with him. Cooper is a very good guard who reminds me a lot of Davin Joseph.

With Warmack, I don't see quite the athleticism that people like to claim he had. I can't really think of a NFL comparison to him. Will Shields is probably the closest, but he doesn't have the athleticism Will had.

The more film I watch on Larry Warford, the more I like the guy. He pulls very well whether on traps or screen plays. He's the one that reminds me of Will Shields.

I looked up what NFL.com says just to make sure I wasn't the only one in love with Warford, and I found they give him a gradeof 85.3 which is a first round grade, there comparison is Marshal Yanda.

Kyle Long is harder for me to analyze because of the scheme he played in. Can you really achor? I don't know because Oregon is based on quick throws and roll outs.

Barrett Jones is a different type of players, he's not the physical player the true Guards are, he's not overly athletic. He primarily gets by on technique, he's a solid player but he's more of a supporting cast than the star of the offensive line IMO.

My biggest problem is seeing is deciding on the best method to get the best players.

1) G Chance Warmack
2) DE Tank Carradine
3) DT Sylvester Williams
3) SS Shamarko Thomas

OR
1) DT STAR/Richardson/Floyd
2) OG Larry Warford
3) S JJ Wilcox
3) DE Corey Lemonier

OR
1) DE Ansah/Werner/Moore/Mingo
2) DT Kawann Short
3) OG Brian Winters
3) RB Le'Veon Bell
4) SS Bacarri Rambo

OR
1) S Kenny Vacarro
2) DE Tank Carradine
3) OG Brian Winters
3) DT Brian Williams
4) SS Bacarri Rambo

I don't see drastic dropoff in play between the first round S and the 2nd round safety, because I assume either Reid or Cyprien will still be there round 2.
To me, there's not a big different in the first round DEs and the 2nd round DEs. I don't see a ton of different in the first round OG and the 2nd round OG.

But will we want a S in the top 3 rounds since we signed Wilson? I don't think we will. Will we want a DT with Casey, Martin, Klug and probably looking to sign a vet? I don't think we will.

I think Carradine in round 2 is just as good, once healthy, as anyone we'll get in round 1. With Warford in round 2, I think he's very close to anyone in round 1.

So, basically I want 2 2nd round picks
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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The only problem with predicting specific players in any round other than the first is that we have no idea who will be there. I like Warford and Carradine as well, but either has a chance to be gone by then (I could see Carradine going in round 1). Same goes for Winters in round 3. He could very easily be a 2nd round guy, an option for our 2nd rounder, in fact.

I'm not knocking your evaluation, but its just hard for me to say "yes we should pick these guys in round 1 and 2 because we can get this guy in round 3". I look at it more like, this position has a lot of depth into this round, or this position is more top heavy...etc.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Well, essentially that's what I was doing. I just placed a player there to give people an estimate on who may be there.

Carradine could do Round 1, it's very possible. But one thing that's fairly good for us is that the bottom of the first round is stacked with teams that run a 3-4, and mostly have their pass rushers already in place.

Most of the teams at the top of the 2nd have bigger needs than taking a DE coming off an ACL injury, but Datone Jones, Brandon Jenkins, Alex Okafor are all also possibilities.

Like I said, I'm pretty good at placing values on players and being fairly accurate. Of course, there's always the chance of a team doing a Bruce Irvin-like move and take him before most people think.

With that said, I still don't believe DT is a major need for us. Star has a heart problem (to be seen how serious) and he ran a lot of "stand and read the QB" - we don't know how good he really is, not to mention he came in a lot smaller than he was thought to be. He's strong, and has good hand use. But I don't see pass rush ability, nor penetration ability. So I do have question marks on Star.

Richardson has extreme ability and athleticism for his size. But he kind of has a Big Al work-ethic from what I've read.

The more film I've watched on these guys, the more Shariff Floyd moves up my boards. He's the most complete DT in the class.

The value in the top 10 is all Lineman. If we're going lineman, I still prefer Damontre Moore
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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I agree that this draft is great for lineman (which is great for us), but I'm not a Moore believer at all. He never impressed me and today he ran a 4.95 today at 250 and only put up 12 reps. That is horrible and Moore is going to take a serious slide as a result.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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I agree that this draft is great for lineman (which is great for us), but I'm not a Moore believer at all. He never impressed me and today he ran a 4.95 today at 250 and only put up 12 reps. That is horrible and Moore is going to take a serious slide as a result.
Hadn't seen the combine results for more yet. Gotta give him some props for laying it out there for teams rather than faking an injury to get out of it.

It's too bad we likely won't get the benefit of him falling due to bad numbers, but factor in he was projected at one point as the 2nd player taken and it's already a deal.

At DE my 3 favorites are Moore, Ansah and Carradine. Each has there different strengths and weaknesses and I struggle for my Titans on saying if we should take the DE-where we obviously need help or DT position where I am somewhat content.

I've watched a lot of film on most players that are possibilities for our Titans, once FA hits and is gone we can get a clearer image of our needs, until then I will continue to struggle back and forth on who the best selection at #10 is
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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I like Ansah and Carradine, but I'm going to have to disagree on Moore. Giving him all the credit you want for "laying it out there", but 4.95 for a 250lb DE is molasses. That's what 300lb DT's run. If his 10 yard split was fast that's one thing, but he was poor there as well. Not to mention that he put up a pathetic 12 reps on the bench.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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I got a little worried when I saw DaMo's arm length, cause I love long arms on a pass-rusher, but I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't smile when I saw his BP and 40 time. Dude's a 3-4 OLB. That's his pass-rush skillset, and now it looks like it's his athletic skillset as well.

I do believe Zeke Ansah has passed Werner for my personal #1 DE spot after the combine. Werner settles in at #2. Tank Carradine stays at #3, and Dion Jordan stays at #4 too. DaMo was #5, and while I'm not dropping him, several others moved up and gained ground. To Rufus's chagrin, Mingo remains an object of my disdain. The latter two had good VJ's and good...BJ's (which are more important to DE's than 40 time, as it helps measure explosiveness), but they're not so impressive at their size. On the other hand, Ansah's jumping for his size and weight were stellar. As a physical talent, Zeke has passed by the DT trio in my book.

Also feeling Mighty's love of Devin Taylor. Love 'em lanky and explosive.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Oh, and regardless of what happens tomorrow, I have Xavier Rhodes ahead of De Milliner. He's my favorite CB in the draft.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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I want to like Werner but I also seem to come away unimpressed. Hoping to watch more film on him tomorrow so we'll see.

I've always been more impressed with Moore's film than anything. He plays faster than a 4.9, and possesses more strength than 12 reps indicated. Needless to say he really hurt his stock this week.

But, I'm still a fan and still see a lot to like in his game. I still come away fairly umimpressed with the "top DE's" in the class tho
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