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Old 02-25-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
No they aren't.

The Giants, Patriots, Colts, Saints, & Cardinals have all recently made the Super Bowl without good pass defenses. The Giants, Colts, Packers, and Steelers have made the Super Bowl with bad offensive lines. Neither QB in this year's Super Bowl were considered top-ten by many. Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, and a 2nd-year Ben Roethlisberger have led teams to the Super Bowl recently.

It doesn't take teams with top-ten QBs, great offensive lines, great pass rushes, and great secondaries to win Super Bowls because no team has all that. And we are talking about Barry Sanders, who played in a different type of league. Running backs were way more important back then.
It takes one or the other or both: a great passing offense and/or a great passing defense. And RBs don't contribute to either.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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It takes one or the other or both: a great passing offense and/or a great passing defense. And RBs don't contribute to either.
Which one of those did the Ravens have? Nobody thinks Flacco is great. And The Ravens were middle of the road pass defense this year. But once again, talking about what it takes to win the Super Bowl is irrelevant when discussing how great Barry Sanders is. He played in a time when the passing game wasn't as important as it is today. Running backs were far more important in his day and there was not one better. Barry Sanders is a top-ten player of all time. Anyone who says they don't want him on their team is a damn fool.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Which one of those did the Ravens have? Nobody thinks Flacco is great. And The Ravens were middle of the road pass defense this year. But once again, talking about what it takes to win the Super Bowl is irrelevant when discussing how great Barry Sanders is. He played in a time when the passing game wasn't as important as it is today. Running backs were far more important in his day and there was not one better. Barry Sanders is a top-ten player of all time. Anyone who says they don't want him on their team is a damn fool.
As good as Barry Sanders was, it didn't get them close to any Super Bowls.

I'd rather have invested my resources in DL, OL, and the like and become a team like the 1991 Washington Redskins (that steamrolled the Sanders Lions in the playoffs despite Barry rushing for a ton of yards).
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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As good as Barry Sanders was, it didn't get them close to any Super Bowls.

I'd rather have invested my resources in DL, OL, and the like and become a team like the 1991 Washington Redskins (that steamrolled the Sanders Lions in the playoffs despite Barry rushing for a ton of yards).
That is what the Lions did. They invested 30% of their picks during Sanders' Career on the lines. 44% more of the picks went to defensive backs, receivers, TEs, and QBs. They did draft 7 running backs and fullbacks, but every one except Sanders was 7th round or later.

So they built the team the exact same way you say they should. A lot of investment along the lines and passing game. Late round picks on running backs. The problem? The front office sucks. They missed on so many picks. That is the formula for success. Have a great front office that picks up good players. You can win with good defense and running but less passing(see the 49ers). You can win with great quarterback play but weak in other places (Packers). You can win with great defense but sub-par quarterback play (see Ravens in 2000). The common denominator? Great front offices.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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i'd much rather have emmitt smith than barry sanders. i'd also prefer my coffee to be stale and lukewarm, and i like driving in rush hour traffic because i won't get pulled over for speeding. my favorite leadoff batter is jeremy giambi because he has a high on base percentage and doesn't get caught stealing. whenever i'm eating a bowl of lucky charms i make sure to take out all the marshmallows first.

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why people always need to pigeon hole certain positions as the most important or the least important. Football teams are greater than the sum of their parts. We have seen so many different types of football teams get to or win the SB. There isn't a set formula.
I'm glad we can agree that the long snapper is the most important position in football. As for what the OP is actually saying, I actually do get it to a certain degree. I can understand preferring a RB that is going to have positive gains more consistently and dance less in the backfield, but that preference is surrounded by mountains of crap that amount to nothing.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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i'd much rather have emmitt smith than barry sanders. i'd also prefer my coffee to be stale and lukewarm, and i like driving in rush hour traffic because i won't get pulled over for speeding. my favorite leadoff batter is jeremy giambi because he has a high on base percentage and doesn't get caught stealing. whenever i'm eating a bowl of lucky charms i make sure to take out all the marshmallows first.
I'd prefer my morning coffee to be so unpredictable that it either gives me an orgasm in my mouth, or it's so bitter that it makes me vomit all over the place and have to call in sick. I think it's better to go 110 MPH on the highway so that you get to work on time. Sure, you might die in a car accident every now and then, but getting to work on time makes up for it. My favorite leadoff batter is Marvin Benard. He may have an OBP of .200 in June, but in July, it might be .473. Whenever I'm eating a bowl of Lucky Charms I take out everything but the marshmallows. Then I put in pieces of dog **** to mix with the marshmallows, but I also add another cup of marshmallows to the box. Sure, I mostly eat dog **** in the morning, but every now and then, I get a tasty marshmallow, and because I added a cup, I get to eat more of them than in a regular bowl of Lucky Charms.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I like Radiohead and Bears. They're pretty cool. I do not like JordanTaber saying silly things. That's not cool.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Whenever I'm eating a bowl of Lucky Charms I take out everything but the marshmallows. Then I put in pieces of dog **** to mix with the marshmallows, but I also add another cup of marshmallows to the box. Sure, I mostly eat dog **** in the morning
You eat pieces of **** for breakfast?

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Old 02-25-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long. Jordan is wrong. Go watch the youtube link from the OP. Really, take a few minutes and watch the damn video. You're just flat-out wrong if you watch that and conclude that Barry Sanders is a guy that you wouldn't want on your team. Obvious troll is obvious.

As my man Klaus said: "That isn't right. That isn't even wrong."

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Old 02-25-2013, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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I'd prefer my morning coffee to be so unpredictable that it either gives me an orgasm in my mouth, or it's so bitter that it makes me vomit all over the place and have to call in sick. I think it's better to go 110 MPH on the highway so that you get to work on time. Sure, you might die in a car accident every now and then, but getting to work on time makes up for it. My favorite leadoff batter is Marvin Benard. He may have an OBP of .200 in June, but in July, it might be .473. Whenever I'm eating a bowl of Lucky Charms I take out everything but the marshmallows. Then I put in pieces of dog **** to mix with the marshmallows, but I also add another cup of marshmallows to the box. Sure, I mostly eat dog **** in the morning, but every now and then, I get a tasty marshmallow, and because I added a cup, I get to eat more of them than in a regular bowl of Lucky Charms.
marvin benard and barry sanders, now that is a comparison i never thought i'd see.

but to be honest i love arguing in terms of slippery slopes because they further illustrate how idiotic the initial statements were. emmitt smith is a perfectly viable runningback, one of the best of all-time for his consistency and high level of play; barry sanders is also one of the best all-time for his gamebreaking ability and inventiveness. in either case, you would want them on your team; you wouldn't even have to start barry sanders at runningback, you could just stick him on punt returns. or have him be a really shifty waterboy that can quick grab gatorade and run out there and maneuver around the referees and line judges.

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Old 02-25-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the fact that Barry Sanders hurt his team with him running style. He also helped them though.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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In the first half of his career, Barry was a typical boom-or-bust RB. In the second half of his career, he was one of the most efficient RBs in the NFL. He was smart, and he knew where the first down marker was. He knew that a two yard gain on 3rd and 8 wouldn't do jack for his team.

Go back and watch that youtube video from the '94 season. Barry knew where the first down marker was, and he'd fight like hell to get past it. I don't know how the crap you watch that game and think "I wouldn't want him on my team"

The Lions won that game, even though they were the inferior team.
Then 2 weeks later, the Lions lost to an inferior team...the Bucs.

That's how it always was with them. Beat the Cowboys or 49ers, lose to the Bucs or Saints.

I already wrote up my criticisms of him in that game. And in general, my complaint with him isn't just his general refusal to hit the hole. It's his lack of toughness as an inside runner. There's a softness to him that I never liked. People talk about "3 yards and a cloud of dust," but I'm more into 4, 5, and 6. Sanders didn't fight for the extra yards inside...he'd give himself up and get 2 or 3.

I also like backs who get stronger as the game goes on. Emmitt Smith was that way. With Barry, you didn't know what to expect. He might break off a big run or two early, he might do it middle, he might do it late, or he might not do it at all. That's not something I'd want as a play caller in the second half of a close game. If it's Emmitt Smith, I keep giving it to him, even if he hasn't had a good day so far. If it's Barry Sanders, and he has 11 rushes for 22 yards, I'm not sure what to do. The fact that he has the potential to break a long one makes it enticing, but then you run a big risk of setting up 2nd and 13 or 3rd and 12.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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i'd much rather have emmitt smith than barry sanders. i'd also prefer my coffee to be stale and lukewarm, and i like driving in rush hour traffic because i won't get pulled over for speeding. my favorite leadoff batter is jeremy giambi because he has a high on base percentage and doesn't get caught stealing. whenever i'm eating a bowl of lucky charms i make sure to take out all the marshmallows first.
This is easily one of the best posts I've read on this forum.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Tuinei was already on the team 6 years before Jimmy Johnson ever arrived in Dallas. He was a DT in college, switched to OT in Dallas and was a 2x All Pro.
John Gesek came over from the Raiders, don't know how he was acquired.
Kevin Gogan was a 3x pro bowler for the Cowboys. Stepnoski was a 5x pro bowler. Erik WIlliams was a 2x All Pro.

What does where a player was drafted really have to do with how talented they are?? The draft is still more art than science and scouting departments miss on players. The Dallas Oline is a perfect example of this.

Nate Newton struggled early in his career not because of ability, but because he had a weight problem. He gained 50# one offseason under Landry and reported to camp at 360#. When he got on the field however he was still a dominating guard/tackle.

THe freakish agility, quick feet and power of Nate Newton and Larry Allen allowed the Cowboys to run base zone runs, inside zones and stretch plays with 325-330# guards. No Oline in the NFL could boast a combination of jumbo mobile guards like Allen/Newton.

Combine Newton/Allen with Emmitt Smith and you have the best rushing attack in the NFL.

Are you still trying to argue Emmitt really didn't benefit from playing behind a great Oline in Dallas???
My point is, if these guys were as good/athletic as you say, they wouldn't have fallen to such late rounds (or gone undrafted). We know size wasn't an issue, and if they were that athletic, and that good, the scouts would've been on it.

Larry Allen and Erik Williams were small school finds, and they were obviously legitimate (well, Williams was before the car accident). Note how they both went within the first 3 rounds of the draft, though.

So no excuse for Nate Newton. He was huge, and if he'd had the kind of athleticism you're suggesting, there is no way all NFL scouts are so incompetent that nobody would have said, "you know, I think this guy should be high on the draft board."

For the others, it's a big stretch to think that the Cowboys managed to hit on 8th/10th/UDFAs that many times...and with different coaching staffs, and guys who had been cut from other teams in camp.

Newton, Tuinei, Gesek, and Gogan were "phone booth" maulers, and guys like that are a dime a dozen.

The Cowboys never fielded a team with pre-accident Williams and Allen at the same time, and they won their first two Super Bowls with no Larry Allen at all. Emmitt Smith had 3 of his 4 best years without Allen even there.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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barry sanders is better than you
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Blah blah blah I see we're still trolling and talking about the Cowboys OL of the nineties being trash.

Someone's on the "drugs have no calories!" diet.

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Old 02-26-2013, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for the info about the 49ers. Even so that still would be a boon to Sanders' usefulness in the passing game, but onto your concerns.

The yards per reception looks pedestrian, but the truth is you'd be hard-pressed to find any genuine running back with a better average, at least in the 90's (I don't even think LDT managed to average anything significantly better). It actually makes sense since RBs ran less deep routes when compared to the receivers, especially during that time.
Well, here are a few career yards/catch averages for comparison's sake:

(Barry Sanders: 8.3)

Ricky Watters: 9.1
Marshall Faulk: 9.0
Thurman Thomas: 9.4
Earnest Byner: 9.0

Watters, admittedly, was a bit of an anomaly because he was a WR at Notre Dame early on and had rare receiving ability. Shanahan actually tweaked the 49er offense a little to take advantage of that (he was the one exception to what I said as far as backs being used pretty much exclusively as outlets in the 49ers' system), so he sometimes had the opportunity to run more complex/downfield routes than you typically see from running backs. That certainly contributed to his higher yards/catch averages with the 49ers.

Now, that said, Sanders didn't possess those abilities as a receiver...or, at least, he never demonstrated he did. He'd likely be used almost exclusively in the flats, much like Derek Loville was in 1995 (or Floyd, or Craig, Rathman, Tyler, Earl Cooper before them). Loville averaged 7.6 yards per catch in the 1995 season on 87 receptions, and it's baffling why Sanders wouldn't do much better, even with a smaller sample size in Detroit.


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As for receptions, it's worth noting the following;

1. Detroit ran a 3-WR set for almost all of Sanders' career. In '97 and '98 they apparently used a good deal of standard sets with Tommy Vardell picking up the majority of the starts that could normally go to the 3rd receiver.

2. While the O-Line quality is hotly debated, nobody debates the quality of QB's in Detroit's stable. The best they have to offer is a part-season performance from Erik Kramer in '93, a half-season performance from David Krieg in '94, and the time the immortal Scott Mitchell caught on fire in '95. Everything else has been mediocre at best.

3. Sanders' best receiving stretch from '93-'95(you would probably argue for the first two years) co-incided not just with the rare moments of competent Quarterbacking but also with the timely arrival of the Brett Perriman/Herman Moore duo at WR, soon joined by Johnny Morton. This served to actually diminish the balls thrown to Barry since that was the best juggernaut receiving corps until the rise of Megatron and the load of carcasses strapped to his back. Had merely one of those receivers not played it's possible Barry might've achieved a reception total on par with what you'd expect from a backfield pass catcher. The rest of the years you could probably chalk to defenders respecting his danger as a receiver, QBs not quite getting him the ball even as a safety valve, a possible major emphasis on a vertical attack to draw attention off Barry, etc.
I suppose those are fair points, especially the part about them using 3 receiver sets...but I still would think they'd want to get the ball in his hands as much as possible, and getting him the ball as a receiver would put him in space and reduce the number of defenders who could reasonably get to him. Marshall Faulk, whom I would rate as the most elusive back post-Sanders, was an absolute headache catching passes out of the backfield.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:28 AM    (permalink
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Just for the sake of having something I can discuss on this topic, I went to the Youtube Link given in the first post and did the closest I will ever come to a breakdown of all of Barry's plays in that clip. Enjoy, and remember I hate you all.

0:00- Standard I Formation, a rare treat seemingly. Play initially goes left, however either by design or stupidity Lomas Brown engages a linebacker and leaves the lead blocker to handle Chalres Haley(I THINK that's Haley, could be wrong). That and the appearance of 59 in whatever meager gap was there forces Barry to try and cut right. Problem is Russell Maryland beats his blocker and goes for the tackle. Barry jukes outside and leaves him in the dust but then cuts back inside once he sees 92 beat his blocker. Enough dancing to cut down on forward momentum, though it may be a benefit since the play gained four to five yards and might've been two at most.

0:10- Offset I, Lead Blocker on the right side. Play looks to be inside but Leon Lett beats the Guard working on him and slips past Kevin Glover to force Barry to veer outside-right. However 92 is contained enough by 89, the Tight End on the play. This allows Barry to get on the outside and into relative open space, enough to get the first down and somewhere between seven and ten yards on the play. Only one dance when Lett got through the line.

0:19- 3 Wide, TE in motion to the left. Run Outside Left. 28, a defensive back is playing very shallow on the left side despite the multiple wideouts, 2 of which are on the right. 95 in the interior of the defensive line engages Kevin Glover and slips past. This wouldn't be much of a problem for Barry to scoot past, especially since Lomas Brown has engaged Charles Haley and taken him. 89 is initially helping double Haley. However he is forced to switch to 28 at the last possible moment and can't secure the block. With 95 in persuit behind him, Barry can't cut away from 28 who gets a solid tackle just by being right where the rushing attack was supposed to go. Oddly enough there IS no dancing here.

0:24- Standard I, TE on the left this time. Play is going right, and the blocking really doesn't work here. 49 is the Fullback and he just about whiffs against 92. Fortunately by dodging his blocker, 92 has over-comitted to the inside, allowing Barry to juke outside and get past. Meanwhile 73, the Right Tackle, has shot upfield to contain 59, the Left Linebacker. He gets one initial push, then watches helplessly as 59 gets past anyway. So Barry gets a defender grabbing for him anyway and a whole host of defenders in the immediate vicinity. There was practically no effective blocking on this play whatsoever. Either no gain or a loss of half a yard.

0:30- 4 Wide. Draw play form the looks of it. The extra wideouts force the defensive linemen to work without anyone to cover up their mistakes. Apparently 95 and Haley were working a stunt because 95 gave up the inside to curl out, which was fortunate because he vacated the EXACT spot Barry went for. Haley meanwhile disengages from Lomas Brown during the stunt and is actually in position to make a tackle but he just whiffs. Meanwhile the right slot receiver has charged a defender while Glover, the only Lineman who didn't fake any pass protection, engages a significantly smaller defender downfield. After this Barry darts for the sidelines and gets only glancing blows from 37 and 28 but 31 gets just enough of him to force Barry out of bounds two yards shy of the first down marker. Twelve yards total. Barry looks especially frightening on draw plays like this, but I would imagine there's quite a few running backs who would be just as deadly.

0:39- 3 Wide, TE in motion to the left, Slot on the right. The first genuinely negative play. Barry is supposed to go inside and there's a significant gap between the Guards with Glover upfield engaging a linebacker. About the only one who could converge on him for a tackle here is 59?, Left Linebacker(can't quite make out the second number). Instead Barry tries to find something outside instead of exploiting the hole. The problem here is that poor 73 isn't aware of this and is subsequently discarded by 92 who happens to be right where Barry tries to go. One yard gain. So what to make of that brain fart? That Barry is more of a dancer than a brawler is obvious, and that while he doesn't dance on every play that instinct probably overrides whatever level of training he may have had to burst into a debatably covered hole.

0:45- Unbalance. Both wideouts on the right, TE and FB tight on the left. Play goes right initially. However 73 loses contain against 92 and is beaten, leaving 92 right where Barry is supposed to go. This forces Barry to cut inside. Meanwhile Lett is actually taken by 66 but gets back up alarmingly fast while 66 darts upfield to engage another blocker. At the same time 55 actually shot for the same place 92 was and had just enough of an opening to cut inside with Barry. This puts most running backs in a hopeless situation with two defenders in short range without any blockers in their way. But Barry is too fast and darts past them. At this point it's open space for the next five yards until 37 come up to engage. Barry tries veering to the right but 37 manages to secure him in a wrap and stop the momentum. Barry dives forward after breaking the wrap but he's on the ground then. Nine yards. This isn't so much a dance as a 'One Cut and GO' move Barry executed.

0:52- Standard I, TE on the right. Play starts left, Charles Haley takes a bump from Lomas Brown, then another from the Lead Blocker. Meanwhile the entire O-Line advances to the left with only 89 staying home to engage 92. Barry benefits from a surprisingly good block by 63 against Russell Maryland, catching Maryland on the backside and pushing him into the makeshift scrum. Meanwhile poor 92 has completely overshot, as if looking for the sack above all else. This leaves a HUGE hole on the right side, which Barry promptly takes after cutting away from a collapsing Haley. The funny thing is Barry doesn't take it further outside, especially once 37 steps in to make the stop. Then again it looked like 37 had the outside edge on Barry. 37 is assisted by 58 who like the rest of the Cowboys line over-persued on the right but since he's playing left-side linebacker he could catch up easier than most. Six yards and a first down. Proper exploitation of a defensive mishap.

1:07- 4 Wide. Not a draw play. Barry is rather tentative after receiving the handoff. I can see where the sliver of daylight is inside, right between Glover who just pancaked Russell Maryland and where 66 has inside contain on 95. Could Barry have powered through that gap and gotten something out of it? Debatable. 66 doesn't actually have the control on 95 that he appears to. And by lacking control I don't mean where Barry's cut to the left gives 95 the tactical advantage. I'm talking in that brief second or two of on-point engagement when the play wasn't yet broken. Anyway Barry just barely scoots past 95 and then has to slip past Haley who was handled by Lomas Brown and was only disengaged probably because the play was supposed to go to the right and Brown was supposed to move up to the second level. Barry tries to juke inside to avoid a charging 31 but doesn't have the balance to achieve this, ending up with a backwards dive. Three yards, and a telling reminder of how an Improvisational Runner can wreck a deliberate blocking scheme. (On an extra note, you can tell when the camera cuts to Barry that he's actually dissapointed in himself after that one).

1:41- Unbalanced. Both wideouts on the right, TE and FB tight on the left. Defense strong to their right, Detroit's Left. Okay, I see 92's over-persuit and I see the whole.... but I don't see Barry making the cut and zooming off. To begin with, he made a slight juke inside to dodge 92's overpersuit, putting his positioning and footwork exactly where they CAN'T be to make a right cut, at least not a right cut that allows him to do so without sacrificing every last ounce of his momentum. Then you add in the other factors; 73's body needs to be hurdled, Russell Maryland HAS the outside advantage over his blocker, 92 is not out of the play just yet despite over-committing, there's still a linebacker and cornerback that have blockers on them but no real advantage there. Meanwhile, the Detroit blockers on the left side seem to have a big gaping hole for Barry to charge into. Pause at 1:44 and ask yourself if you'd think Maryland would beat his blocker and get Barry on the inside. This isn't a brainfart for Barry but rather a rock solid play by Maryland. Five yards, and I don't believe Barry gets those five yards if he tried to go to his right.

1:47- Offset I, FB to the left, TE to the left. Play is supposed to go left. Blockers take their assignments, but the Lead Blocker doesn't take 58 who was playing right side linebacker. 58 just bounces off and is right there to make the play, so Barry cuts right. 92 has rushed himself out of the picture AGAIN, and this time Barry has the space to do the cut he needs to in order to get to the right side. Russell Maryland gets an 'A' for effort with his spin and dive but this time he fails to secure Barry. Dallas looks like the Keystone Cops as Barry streaks down the right side. He slips past 37, losing a bit of momentum in a semi-stumble, probably enough for 55 to get close enough to influence Barry to the sideline, where he can corrall him out of bounds. Thirty-plus yards and the first BIG run we see in this clip. (By the way, 82 started that little melee after the play)

2:37- Unabalanced. Wideouts to the right. TE tight on the left. FB in motion to the left. Play looks to initially be heading right. By now I'm convinced Haley and 92 are over-committing as if Barry would do long sweeps to the edges. Both are way out there in their rushes again. Except this time Detroit's interior linemen have actually pushed their targets to the right, opening up a gap on the left. Barry takes the cut without hesitation. What he DOESN'T do is try to cut out of 66's way- 66 had gone downfield to engage defenders at the second level, and Barry pretty much runs into him. He loses all momentum and gets gang-tackled by the Dallas hordes. A cut outside might've done the trick. I stress the word 'Might've'. Five yards regardless.

2:42- 3 Wide, TE on the left, Slot on the right. Play seems to be intended to go left. The blockers can't force any holes open so Barry turns for the supposed gap in the center. However Glover can't contain 95 who slides right into the hole. Barry then stops for a split second, then bolts for the outside-left while the Dallas linemen converge for the center. A Detroit receiver makes a [BLEEP]ing sweet blindisde block on 31 to permit Barry to reach the sideline at full velocity. He makes the first down just before 28 pushes him out of bounds. This time the improvisation turned out to be the right call. About nine yards.

2:51- Unbalanced, 2 wideouts and 1 TE on the right, the other TE on the left. Play goes to the right, but the Blockers can't win their matchups. Either he can cut to the outside or to the inside, and he chooses inside. I just don't see where the supposed 'bounce' is. Outside of Brett Perriman on the right? Defenders were converging on the area. An extreme cut for the outside-left? Charles Haley, enough said. It looks like trying to cut against the grain was the best he could do under these circumstances. Only two yards before Russell Maryland closes him down.

2:56- 3 Wide, TE on the right. Play's going to the left, looks between the tackles, with a clanned cut inside. Lomas Brown looks to secure contain against Haley but Haley shoots inside and zips past. Barry cuts outside practically on reflex and darts past. Unfortunately because the other linemen were driving their charges outside, they end up in Barry's way. 28 and 31 end up making the tackle. Four to five yards. Improvisation in this case was unavoidable due to Haley's disruption of the play.

3:05- Standard I, TE to the right. Awful lot of two-back sets. Play is supposed to go left with perhaps a cut right. Charles Haley makes a total fool out of Lomas Brown and poor 49 is forced to divert to intercept him, and he misses too. If Barry was supposed to go into a hole thet Lomas Brown cleared for him, then Haley's almost effortless disruption forces him to cut towards the middle. This little cut robs Barry of his momentum, which makes his cut inside slower than one would like. Even so Barry wasn't dodging that defense at full velocity, if only because 58 was right there. Three yards.

3:12- 3 Wide, FB playing WB on the right. Slot on the left. Plays a lot like a draw with whichever linemen not drawing a mark moving downfield while Barry shoots through the gaps. Detroit uses a passing down to count on the linebackers to not bunch up in the box. That part works. Barry has a natural gap dead center to shoot through. The problem is Haley hangs back unexpectedly, and the blockers on him can't engage him properly. This makes Barry try to shift right to keep away from him. Unfortunately that plays right into Maryland's hands. By turning right, Barry ceases to runin a straight line from Maryland and gives the bigger and slower defender a lethal angle to converge upon. Three yards and a failure to convert on third down.

3:18- Standard I, TE to the right. Play looks to be between the tackles, on the left side. Barry darts for the outside-left immediately after receiving the handoff. Maybe it was designed, judging from Perriman's blocking route. Maybe Barry thought the Line wouldn't pave a hole for him. Or maybe he saw that tract of turf on the outside-left and thought he could outrace the Dallas defenders. Unfortunately for him all three Dallas players in the immediate area had the outside on their blockers and followed him. Haley and 59 in particular proved they could keep up with Barry, and thus he was forced to cut inside. Then he sees 55 coming for him and he tries to cut back outside, only he slams into a lumbering Lomas Brown who was trying to doggedly make a seal block for Barry. The main problem here seems to be Barry's feet are outthinking his brain. Two yards.

3:25- Wing set, TE and FB to the right. The interior seals off the defensive right and makes a hole for the center. Only 58 is left untouched, but 49 who was on the wing stunts inside and engages him. And I think Barry makes the wrong choice here, electing to go into the center off 49's left side instead of cutting to his right. 58 was poistioned to make a play for him since he cut left, and would've been helpless had Barry gone right. Forgiveable in the sense that split-second decisions are VERY tricky. Even so Barry gets eight yards on this play.

3:31- 2 TE, Both wideouts to the right. Play looks to be a deliberate run right. The problem is 73 can't contain 92, who shrugs him off. This forces Barry to cut into the middle. Unfortunately he is met by 58, who had a blocker in 66 but slipped from him with minimal effort. Two blown blocks wreck the inital play and it's a wonder Barry still fought for three or four yards.

3:39- 3 Wide, TE to the right, Slot to the left. Play looks to go left then cut right, and is executed as such. The key screw-up is by 92, who once again over-persues and ends up five yards behind the line of scrimmage with his blocker still riding him hard (so dirty....). Anyway Barry makes the cut and survives another 'A+ Lunge' by Maryland, and suddenly has lots of daylight. 59 can't keep up and tries to find an angle of attack. 37 can't position himself properly this time and has to find that angle too. That just leaves 26 who Herman Moore just left alone to take on 37. Moore makes the block on 37, and Barry hurdles 26 after cutting inside on him. He can't keep his balance and is easily knocked down by 59, but not before ripping thirteen yards and a first down. Good solid blocking in front of him, check. Keeping the moves in check until he absolutely needed them, check.

3:47- Standard I, TE to the left. Play looks to go right. Blocking assignments put Lomas Brown directly on Haley and 66 directly on 95, with Glover and the right side shifting right to lead the way for Barry. The problem? 58 red-dogs it and there's NO ONE to pick him up. He shoots up the gap uncontested and catches Barry from behind. No chance at all. Loss of five or six, but no fault to Barry on that one. Well, maybe half those yards he lost because 58 rode his keister backwards without much of a struggle, but...

3:51- Standard I, TE to the right. Play looks to go left. Barry goes left but cuts inside (what you don't easily see is Lomas Brown fall while blocking Haley). Then Maryland fights through BOTH 67 and 73 and forces Barry to cut completely to the outside (Major kudos to Maryland here, he has been all heart in this clip). After that it's Barry in a footrace with 92, who wasn't remotely blocked well by the TE, with 37 giving support. Barry makes the turn, somehow sneaks past both of them, and somehow staggers his way forward even though 37 got enough of him to totally rob him of his momentum and take away his balance. So Barry stumbles forward past the first down marker like he was running on ice. About thirteen yards or so.

4:05- If I HAD to guess I'd say it's an offset I, FB to the left, TE to the right. Play is supposed to go right. Barry's cutting inside (what I figure is he saw 28 behind Haley ready to make a play on him, or maybe the play was designed to cut right). As for what he is 'Doing', it looks like he tried to keep going right to outrace his persuers and tried to lose them in the scrum- maybe by darting outside it- only 95 shot through and swallowed him whole... or more likely tripped him up. I think it's about two yards.

4:09- 3 Wide, TE to the left, Slot to the right. Play is meant to go right, or at least right-side inside the tackle. Barry cuts outside though. Because of 95? He got ankle-blocked. Maryland? He had the inside at the time of Barry's cut. Unfortunately 73 was working outside contain on 92, who suddenly had Barry in his sights. Barry spins past him, only to run into hapless 73, who by now has probably had one mutha of a day. Loss of two yards. Again, improvisation simply failed.

4:15- Unbalanced. Wideouts to the left. TE and FB tight to the right. Play seems to be intended for the left side. Or was it intended to feint left then cut right? Either way, Barry cut right, either by design or he felt Haley would have him for dinner. 82 and 49 execute a solid seal block on 92 just long enough to let Barry get around. Once he gets around a charigng 26 hassles him but can't seal the deal. Barry manages to push through for a first down. About fifteen yards. These misdirection plays seem to give Barry the best chances for production.

4:24- 2 TE, both Wideouts to the left. Play looks to go left. Barry sees defenders starting to break through and cuts to the right. At this point 49 is on 92 and Barry can cut inside or to the sideline. He chooses inside. Would he have done better outside? Debatable. It may have prolonged the play to be sure, because he makes a decisive cut and burst and is almost immediately brought down by three defenders. About six yards gained regardless.

4:31- Unbalanced. Wideouts to the right, TE and FB to the left. Play looks to go right. However 92 gets to the outside of 73 and Barry tries to cut inside. The cut takes perfect advantage of 59 committing right and both 58 and 95 tripped up and grapsing for air as Barry darts past. 24, who committed inside the box and was also left in the dust, only catches up with him because Barry loses his momentum trying to juke past 37 who was ahead of him. Ten yards.

4:41- Unbalanced. Wideouts to the left, TE and FB to the right. Play looks to go left. However Haley bulls Lomas Brown to the point where he's breaking through and Barry is forced to cut inside. The play almost works despite that flaw. Unfortunately, Maryland overpowers 67 at the point of attack, and manages toi trip Barry up, stopping his forward progress after only about two yards. However, it was a short yardage play- which explains the Dallas Linebacker sneak into the line- and Barry still got the first down.

4:46- 2 TE, both Wideouts on the right. Play looks to go right. When Barry tries to cut inside, it's because Dallas defenders were breaking through. Unfortunately, that attempt to change direction permits 58- who was on the right edge and persuing Barry- to blindside him. This is where Barry's instinct to dance instead of charge costs him. There seems to be some truth in the idea that Emmitt Smith made Offensive Lines better, whereas most RBs, even the great ones, thrive on solid OL play and suffer without it.

4:51- Unbalanced. Wideouts to the right, TE and FB on the left. Play looks to go right. When Barry should be making his move, he's instead veering inside because 92 got past 73 and now Barry has to beat him around the corner. It gets worse because the 'Slot' receiver cannot engage 59 which leaves the Linebacker to zero in on Barry. All this wastes valuable time trying to outrace them through the turn, and by the time Barry does so, more defenders have converged. I think it's 26 who manages to force him to fall. Four to five yards, which is a good deal more than most running backs could probably get under those circumstances.

5:02- 2 TE, both Wideouts on the left. Play looks to go left. 95 stunts to the outside where Barry's going and Barry's response is to cut into the gap 95 left behind. The blocking holds and Barry shoots through a gap in the center. From there he manages to scoot past 58 and just barely scrape past 37 while juking to the left, but he ends up stumbling just enough for 24 to get him properly. About thirteen yards.

5:18- Offset I, FB to the left, TE to the left. Play looks to go left. 49 does a good job turning inside to put down the interior rush while Barry goes left. Then he tries to curve inside as opposed to attempting to shoot through the gap between 82 and Lomas Brown. A safety, I think 24, moves inside since the linebackers blitzed and were neutralized and makes the play on Barry while he's turning to the middle. Only about two yards, could've gotten more but again it's a split-second decision.

5:23- Looks like 3 Wide, 49 tight to the Right, Slot to the right. Play looks to go right. It's 3rd and LONG so that explains why Haley and 77 are bull-rushing. Wiht their over-persuit, Barry darts for outside-right at full velocity. 24 seeks to cut him off and actually has the angle right enough to get to him and haul him down. Dogged effort, that. Barry only gains about six yards due to 24's diligence.

5:27- 2 TE, both Wideouts to the right. Play looks to go right. It looks like 59's zealous attempt to go outside forces Barry to cut inside. Unfortunately 92 knifes past 73 to make the stop. No gain on the play, not much Barry could do there. I don't think trying to cut all the way towards the left side where that huge gap was wouldn't have helped, not with 92 sticking his face in there.

5:34- Offset I, FB to the right, TE to the right. Key 3rd and 2 situation. Play goes to the middle. 49 gets enough of a Lead Block on 55 for Barry to get enough yardage for the first down. Everybody else managed their blocks for long enough. Solid effort, though if Barry could've juked 55...

5:41- 2 TE, both Wideouts to the left. Play looks to go left. What happens here is 95 gets past Kevin Glover and is joined by a rushing Linebacker to stuff the play before Barry could juke his way out of that mess. Just about every juky mess Barry has involves defenders beating his blockers and gettin' up in his grill. Loss of two. He could've tried bursting to the right, perhaps...

5:46- Jumbo Package, TE and FB on the left, extra lineman on the right. Was the play meant to go left? Dallas swarmed that part of the line when Barry got there but he should've gone up the middle. Though he still fought back to the line of scrimmage. (I think this was a time waster, so...)

5:50- Jumbo Package again. Same exact play, only this time Dallas swarms through the line and drops Barry for a three yard loss.


Thirty-Nine out of Forty Carries documented. I don't even wanna count the yards.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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Jordan, please give a list of running backs throughout NFL history that you would rather have than Barry Sanders on your team.
William Andrews
Gerald Riggs
Jamal Anderson
George Rogers
Dalton Hilliard
Ricky Williams
Wendell Tyler
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Garrison Hearst
Frank Gore
Eric Dickerson
Greg Bell
Jerome Bettis
Curt Warner
Edgerrin James
Ahman Green
Gerry Ellis
Chuck Foreman
Robert Smith
Walter Payton
Billy Sims
Warrick Dunn
James Wilder
DeAngelo Williams
Jonathan Stewart
Stephen Davis
Tony Dorsett
Emmitt Smith
John Riggins
Wilbert Montgomery
Herschel Walker
Charlie Garner
Joe Morris
Tiki Barber
Marcus Allen
Darren McFadden
Joe Delaney
Christian Okoye
LaDainian Tomlinson
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Ickey Woods
James Brooks
Fred Taylor
Maurice Jones-Drew
Barry Foster
Ray Rice
Freeman McNeil
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Joe Cribbs
O.J. Simpson
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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William Andrews
Gerald Riggs
Jamal Anderson
George Rogers
Dalton Hilliard
Ricky Williams
Wendell Tyler
Roger Craig
Ricky Watters
Garrison Hearst
Frank Gore
Eric Dickerson
Greg Bell
Jerome Bettis
Curt Warner
Edgerrin James
Ahman Green
Gerry Ellis
Chuck Foreman
Robert Smith
Walter Payton
Billy Sims
Warrick Dunn
James Wilder
DeAngelo Williams
Jonathan Stewart
Stephen Davis
Tony Dorsett
Emmitt Smith
John Riggins
Wilbert Montgomery
Herschel Walker
Charlie Garner
Joe Morris
Tiki Barber
Marcus Allen
Darren McFadden
Joe Delaney
Christian Okoye
LaDainian Tomlinson
Earl Campbell
Corey Dillon
Ickey Woods
James Brooks
Fred Taylor
Maurice Jones-Drew
Barry Foster
Ray Rice
Freeman McNeil
Curtis Martin
Thurman Thomas
Joe Cribbs
O.J. Simpson
Congratulations, Raiders fans. Looks like Darren McFadden > Barry Sanders!
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Congratulations, Raiders fans. Looks like Darren McFadden > Barry Sanders!
Barry Sanders. Not better than Darren McFadden but apparently he is better than Jim Brown.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:11 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Barry Sanders. Not better than Darren McFadden but apparently he is better than Jim Brown.
Well, if you take away all of Jim Brown's runs, he's just a mediocre actor. Can't act your way to a first down.
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