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Old 02-26-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
meh, Ray Rice was seen as too short and too slow.

I'm not worried about Khaseem's measurements. He's a baller and it shows on the field.

I actually do like Moore, but while he's a better athlete, Khaseem's the superior football player. Combine time makes people forget we're drafting football players and not athletes. While athletes are great, there are the Bruce Campbells of the world.

Granted, trbl stuff like Te'o and huge boosts like Washington do help and are telling. but the middle of the pack things are just kinda meh
Measurables are not everything for sure but you basing everything on what he's done on the field is also silly. We've seen plenty of guys not be successful who were not great on the field in college, and we've seen plenty of guys who were below average in college be amazing in the NFL.

I mean, you ripped the JPP pick because of his lack of displaying anything on the field. If it were all about what players did on the field in college a lot of guys in the NFL wouldn't have been drafted.

And Sio was great on the field too, fwiw. He just happens to be a better athlete in addition to that.

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4.50 and 4.62 unofficials for my man Logan. If he's on the board in the 2nd for us I hope we pounce.
That's a pretty big disparity. I'm curious at what he will clock in at officially. 4.62 is too slow. If he's in that 4.5 range I would draft him in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Vaccaro seems like an interesting guy I wouldn't mind drafting.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Measurables are not everything for sure but you basing everything on what he's done on the field is also silly. We've seen plenty of guys not be successful who were not great on the field in college, and we've seen plenty of guys who were below average in college be amazing in the NFL.

I mean, you ripped the JPP pick because of his lack of displaying anything on the field. If it were all about what players did on the field in college a lot of guys in the NFL wouldn't have been drafted.

And Sio was great on the field too, fwiw. He just happens to be a better athlete in addition to that.



That's a pretty big disparity. I'm curious at what he will clock in at officially. 4.62 is too slow. If he's in that 4.5 range I would draft him in a heartbeat.

I will forever eat crow on the JPP pick and has made me shift my standpoint on guys production but with Khaseem, who is one of the guys I will defend to the death, it's not like he racked up numbers because of a scheme. He played LB for 2 years. TWO YEARS. He's had no offseasons to fully prep as a linebacker, being shifted there in the middle of the summer 2 years ago, and rehabbing his broken ankle last offseason. Yet, the dude absolutely dominated. The tackle numbers, the ability to cover as a LB with safety instincts and coverage ability, adjusting to his new weight and his ability to make plays (forced fumbles, sacks) etc. I really am trying to shed the pure homer label and have even downtalked guys like Harrison who are getting way too much internet hype, but Khaseem is a baller. He's got that it factor (i know, i know), his instincts, hitting ability, leadership, work ethic. And yeah, I repeat, he's still new to the position. I'm going down swinging with Khaseem (as Zak will with Logan) but I will put money on some team getting away with a super steal with Khaseem in the 2nd. (and even note I'm not advocating us taking him with our 1st!) But in the 2nd, man I'd be ecstatic. I just don't this perceived lack of athleticism is all that big or that much of an impact on Greene. It's not like he's out there hindered by his not elite speed

I'm concerned with Logan's 2nd run, but haven't watched them. A lot of time a discrepancy will be because of a bad start or stumble out of the gate. We'll see. Another guy I'd love in the 2nd. Perfect Webster replacement, really.

And for what it's worth, I'm a Sio Moore fan. I like his game and wouldn't mind him in the 2nd or 3rd (just not over Khaseem or Logan, of course)
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I mean, he's shifting from safety to linebacker. We're not talking about a guy shifting from defensive end to tight end or something. I think it's silly to try to justify him in that way. I care what he's done at LB to this point. Two years is plenty of time to adjust.

I think Greene is a solid. I don't think he's nearly as great as you make him out to be, but that's fine. I don't think he's a bad player by any stretch of the imagination and wouldn't be overly upset if we selected him in the second.

I just think Greene's upside is limited. He will be a solid player, but he will never be great/elite. If we take a LB that early, I want him to have that potential which is why I'd be happier with a guy like Moore or Brown if we decided to go that route.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I view Greene and Moore as very similar players. I'd be happy with either. I don't think Moore has a more significant upside than Greene though.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Let's just settle this: Ideal giants off-season:

Draft:

round 1: Tank Carradine, DE, FSU

round 2: Logan ryan, CB, THE Rutgers university

round 3: Sio Moore, LB, Uconn

sign Glen Dorsey (DT), bring in cheap vet TE, re-sign Cruz and Beatty.

boom.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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4.56 official for Logan Ryan.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I view Greene and Moore as very similar players. I'd be happy with either. I don't think Moore has a more significant upside than Greene though.
Personally disagree. Moore is much more athletic and is a vastly superior pass rusher. Moore can give us something in terms of blitzing. He had 8 sacks this year. That's unheard of for most LB's these days.

That said, Greene is much of a sure thing and you pretty much know what you're going to get from him.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Personally disagree. Moore is much more athletic and is a vastly superior pass rusher. Moore can give us something in terms of blitzing. He had 8 sacks this year. That's unheard of for most LB's these days.

That said, Greene is much of a sure thing and you pretty much know what you're going to get from him.
Khaseem had 6 and didn't really blitz all that much because he was so valuable in coverage... :/
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Personally disagree. Moore is much more athletic and is a vastly superior pass rusher. Moore can give us something in terms of blitzing. He had 8 sacks this year. That's unheard of for most LB's these days.

That said, Greene is much of a sure thing and you pretty much know what you're going to get from him.
I don't think that's the case at all. We never ask Greene to blitz so it's difficult to compare. I think Greene still had a decent amount of sacks this year on not that many attempts.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Khaseem had 6 and didn't really blitz all that much because he was so valuable in coverage... :/
I just think with his lack of strength/speed he will struggle to rush the passer.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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As far as the differences between Khaseem Greene and Sio Moore goes

The difference between 4.65 and 4.71 is negligible.

There have been plenty of good WLB with 4.75 speed.

Both guys are good players, with good instincts and have been productive.

The difference to me is power, Moore I am pretty sure can also play SLB or MLB whereas Greene I think could be limited to 4-3 WLB.

I really would like to see both on our team :)
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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The DT I like is Brandon Williams

He doesn't have great speed, but he has good size at 6-1, 335 and is very strong with 38 reps

We know he has great hustle and can be disruptive

in the last 3 year (41 games), he has 153 tackles, 49.5 TFL and 25.5 sacks
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Haha, having both would be awesome but sadly it will never happen for a variety of reasons.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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The DT I like is Brandon Williams

He doesn't have great speed, but he has good size at 6-1, 335 and is very strong with 38 reps

We know he has great hustle and can be disruptive

in the last 3 year (41 games), he has 153 tackles, 49.5 TFL and 25.5 sacks
Sounds like a Cofield type of player?
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Maybe but he seems more able to get into the backfield and make plays.

Think he is a little bigger and stronger than co field was coming out of college
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Haha, having both would be awesome but sadly it will never happen for a variety of reasons.
It's a long shot, but not completely impossible.

We do draft multiple needs in the past and we do have multiple needs at LB.
I could see us looking at two LBs in the second and third if they were the highest rated guys on our board (which could happen), I could see Greene being there at 81, he us purely a 4-3 WLB and doesn't have that 4.4 speed that is so fashionable in LB these days.

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Old 02-26-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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I think Desmond Trufant should be in the mix at 19
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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I saw this guy today. Seemed to impress people. However, was he a 1st rounder before the combine?
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I saw this guy today. Seemed to impress people. However, was he a 1st rounder before the combine?
Trufant was considered a late first/ early second after the senior bowl (where he performed well).

I would think he has a mid first round grade at the moment, but there aren't too many landing spots for CBs and teams can still get good options at the top of the second round.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Trufant was considered a late first/ early second after the senior bowl (where he performed well).

I would think he has a mid first round grade at the moment, but there aren't too many landing spots for CBs and teams can still get good options at the top of the second round.
I think teams will stick to the strength of this draft which is OL and DL. I liked Rhodes, but not sure he would beat out the other prospects at the strength of this draft.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I think Desmond Trufant should be in the mix at 19
Yes. This. I've been pimping him ever since the first Senior Bowl practice. He's going to be a great NFL cornerback. I think he will be a top 10 corner in a couple of years. Possibly even better.

In fact, as of right now, I only have Ansah rated higher on my list of players for the Giants.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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looking at this, there's only a few guys I wouldn't like at 19.

Actually, I think the only guy at 19 I don't want is Te'o.

Soooo many good possibilities
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I don't put it past Reese to go with somewhat completely out of left field but I think we will have A LOT of options.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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looking at this, there's only a few guys I wouldn't like at 19.

Actually, I think the only guy at 19 I don't want is Te'o.

Soooo many good possibilities
I will be sooo pissed if we draft Te'o. If he becomes a Giant regardless of which round, I will rage for days in here. He's a fraud, and also a mediocre football player.

Don't get me wrong, this has nothing to do with his obvious homosexuality, I wouldn't even care if we drafted another *** player. It has something to do with his phony demeanor and personality.
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