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Old 02-27-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
Reid is a better coach. Smith is equal to Cassel. 8-10 wins means nothing.

If you're not a Chiefs fan you just don't understand. This team will never be more than mediocre.
As lolworthy as the Alex Smith trade is, I still think you've been a little too close minded on the drop Albert, draft Joeckel (or I guess Fisher) scenario. You're looking at it from the scenario that it doesn't help you get any better in 2013, but it saves you from having to commit an enormous contract to a player that won't be quite worth it, and it allows you to tag the superior long term asset (imo). The patient, frugal approach is probably a tough sell to you guys, but I see plenty of value in Joeckel at #1, from a resource-efficiency standpoint.

OTOH, resource efficiency kinda goes out the window when you use the #34 pick on a QB that almost certainly can't win the Super Bowl. I'm sure he'll be solid playing for Reid, probably won't keep you from competing, but that's because most Reid QB's look solid in his system. So......yeah. That's my half assed attempt to console KC fans.

edit: I meant to quote your post before that, but whatever.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Dropping Albert and drafting Joeckel doesn't make us better next year or potentially in future years.

With the first overall pick you're EXPECTED to get a player that makes you better right away. Does Joeckel do that? No. He keeps us exactly where we are on the offensive line. Lost a LT, draft a LT. No improvement.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
Dropping Albert and drafting Joeckel doesn't make us better next year or potentially in future years.

With the first overall pick you're EXPECTED to get a player that makes you better right away. Does Joeckel do that? No. He keeps us exactly where we are on the offensive line. Lost a LT, draft a LT. No improvement.
This. It isn't like they didn't HAVE a LT and needed a LT.
They have one. Should keep him. Draft defense?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Who on defense? Who makes sense?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Who on defense? Who makes sense?
No one really. Hence the question mark.
But no one on offense does either.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
No one really. Hence the question mark.
But no one on offense does either.
They should have drafted Smith. It would have bought them some time, given them some direction, saved a second round pick, gotten the fans hyped, etc.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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They should have drafted Smith. It would have bought them some time, given them some direction, saved a second round pick, gotten the fans hyped, etc.
Yeah. If you believe that this is a league based on money, I wonder how many season tickets the Chiefs are going to sell this year? I'm betting we'll see a blackout or two at Arrowhead this year.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Dropping Albert and drafting Joeckel doesn't make us better next year or potentially in future years.

With the first overall pick you're EXPECTED to get a player that makes you better right away. Does Joeckel do that? No. He keeps us exactly where we are on the offensive line. Lost a LT, draft a LT. No improvement.
it does make you better in future years if Albert's back continues to be an issue and he's getting double what Joeckel would get. You are quick to throw 50 mil at Albert and a 1 overall at Geno but honestly Joeckel and Smith is a safer way forward. It's not as exciting but it's also not as risky.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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They should have drafted Smith. It would have bought them some time, given them some direction, saved a second round pick, gotten the fans hyped, etc.
Well yes. I have been with vidae on that from the start.
However, that is not the case anymore.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Floyd would be a terrible fit in a 3-4 defense.
Probably. But I see him as their only other option right now. I think he could be a solid fit since he was versatile and played multiple line positions at Florida. Has experience on the edge as well as the interior.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Dropping Albert and drafting Joeckel doesn't make us better next year or potentially in future years.

With the first overall pick you're EXPECTED to get a player that makes you better right away. Does Joeckel do that? No. He keeps us exactly where we are on the offensive line. Lost a LT, draft a LT. No improvement.
But you (probably) have to accept the fact that your scouting staff doesn't deem a QB remotely worth that first pick. So you can take Floyd, lock him for 5 years making about 5 mill per, tag Albert and eventually lock him up to a 5 year/45 million dollar contract with a ton of guaranteed money (I'm ballparking this). You also probably lose Bowe and your hypothetical free agent replacement for him is....Idk, Ramses Barden?.

OTOH, you take Joeckel and lock him up with a 5 million dollar cap hit, you give that Albert contract to Bowe, and you have money to sign a guy like Cullen Jenkins to man the 5-tech that Floyd would. Joeckel may or may not be an immediate upgrade on Albert, but I think the move helps your roster as a whole.

Of course, this is provided that Reid deems Joeckel or Fisher BPA. If it's Floyd or Milliner, by all means, disregard.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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You're naive if you really believe this. Clearly there is upside with a young QB in this draft, and clearly Alex Smith has plateaued.
I'm not naive. I just trust my projection of Geno Smith. And clearly Reid did also.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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This. It isn't like they didn't HAVE a LT and needed a LT.
They have one. Should keep him. Draft defense?
This is what bugs me. Why SHOULD they keep him? I get that he's pretty good, but they can only tag one guy. Why wouldn't it be Bowe? Albert's replacement is readily available to them on a cheap rookie contract. Bowe's is not.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Trade down with PHI and allow them to take the perfect qb for their system(Geno)?

The trade of Alex Smith may or may not open up trade options for KC in which makes losing two 2nd round picks look like a benefit.

Fans must understand, if Reid felt that Geno>Smith the trade wouldn't have occurred. This is the same guy who went against the norm and took McNabb years ago. He knows how to judge talent at the qb position.

Why isn't there talk of Star Lotulelei to KC?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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This is what bugs me. Why SHOULD they keep him? I get that he's pretty good, but they can only tag one guy. Why wouldn't it be Bowe? Albert's replacement is readily available to them on a cheap rookie contract. Bowe's is not.
Re-sign him, tag Bowe.

I understand why a Chicago fan is having difficulty comprehending the desire to retain a good OL. Good OL? What is that? Is that like a unicorn?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Why isn't there talk of Star Lotulelei to KC?
Because he has heart problems.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Trade down with PHI and allow them to take the perfect qb for their system(Geno)?

The trade of Alex Smith may or may not open up trade options for KC in which makes losing two 2nd round picks look like a benefit.

Fans must understand, if Reid felt that Geno>Smith the trade wouldn't have occurred. This is the same guy who went against the norm and took McNabb years ago. He knows how to judge talent at the qb position.

Why isn't there talk of Star Lotulelei to KC?
Because he got sent home from the combine with a heart problem?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Haven't really followed the draft well this year.

Reid values left tackles, but not through the draft. He's always went out and found a proven option at the spot. For him, he would easily pay Albert over Bowe. He's never really went out and signed a proven receiver. Terrell Owens was just a gift to him, as was Moss to NE.

The Packers loved trading down when Ted Thompson began building his roster. For him, it was quantity over quality. When he built his depth, he went out in the draft and traded up to get his guy.

I only see KC trading down.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I understand the frustration of Chiefs fans, but Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over Matt Cassel.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I offer the Chiefs fans symmetry.

KC. Kirk Cousins.
Kid can play and has top 10-15 upside in the league.
Not this season, but I think before 2017 there will be a trade for him, when Reid is let go.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I only see KC trading down.
no one wants that pick. it's a nightmare up there at 1. as this thread proves.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I understand the frustration of Chiefs fans, but Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over Matt Cassel.
this is a key point, im too lazy to look up the stats but it's absolutely true. assume they were both traded for 34 picks, it's not crazy to believe Andy got more mileage out of his 34 than Pioli did. Heck he's getting a former 1 overall pick.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
vidae
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Alex Smith is better, but not #34 pick overall better.

The Chiefs will be a better team, because it's hard to be worse than 2-14, but they won't be much better. 5-6 wins is the ceiling for this team imo.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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What the actual **** ?

Chiefs are ******* everything up
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Alex Smith is better, but not #34 pick overall better.

The Chiefs will be a better team, because it's hard to be worse than 2-14, but they won't be much better. 5-6 wins is the ceiling for this team imo.
I can see 8 to 10 wins. Reid will make it work. The problem is, the ceiling is basically the playoffs instead of the SB.
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