Alex Smith is a Chief

[TonyGfortheTD]

Originally Posted by phlysac

Fairy tale land to require a SB berth for a 2nd round pick. But enjoy the infinite sadness if that's what it takes to satisfy you.

I'll be a Chiefs supporter. Hope you will be too.

If the shoe was on the other foot, I'd be a big 49er supporter too.

[YoJoeBucsFan]

Originally Posted by WCH

After sleeping on it, I like this trade even less. If I were a KC fan, I'd be pretty upset.

The only people that like it are idiot 49ers fans because they finally got rid of a crappy and I do mean crappy QB AND they got a kings ransom from him.

[Monomach]

I liked Chad Pennington as a guy and all...I mean, he was super easy to root for...but I would not have traded #34 and a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him the way the Chiefs just did.

0/10, Could not fap to this.

[niel89]

I thought a 3rd would have been too much for Alex Smith. I can't even understand what they were thinking.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by phlysac

Why ignore the 34PPG average in the other starts. Your point is valid, but it doesn't tell a full story.

If a QB doesn't show up in almost half of his starts n a season then he has a problem. Most teams lose when they score 13 points offensively, and several lose when they score 20-30 points offensively too. It doesn't really matter if the 49ers ran up the score in blowout wins vs. the Dolphins and the Jets, and Alex Smith ran up his QB rating in those games. If he couldn't manufacture any semblance of a consistent offense in 3 of 8 games then he's an average QB, period.

Compare that to Cam Newton who again is pretty much the definition of average QB right now. He scored 14 or less points 5 times over a 16 game season with a far worse offensive core. With crappier support and defense around him they went 7-9 with similar PPG totals.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

If a QB doesn't show up in almost half of his starts n a season then he has a problem. Most teams lose when they score 13 points offensively, and several lose when they score 20-30 points offensively too. It doesn't really matter if the 49ers ran up the score in blowout wins vs. the Dolphins and the Jets, and Alex Smith ran up his QB rating in those games. If he couldn't manufacture any semblance of a consistent offense in 3 of 8 games then he's an average QB, period.

Compare that to Cam Newton who again is pretty much the definition of average QB right now. He scored 14 or less points 5 times over a 16 game season with a far worse offensive core. With crappier support and defense around him they went 7-9 with similar PPG totals.

I guess you can completely ignore that two of those three starts came when Smith had a broken finger on his throwing hand, and the 49ers still won one of them. The 49ers scored 13 or less in two of Kaepernick's seven starts, and only 17 offensive points in another. I guess Kaepernick is pretty much the same as Smith.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

I guess you can completely ignore that two of those three starts came when Smith had a broken finger on his throwing hand, and the 49ers still won one of them. The 49ers scored 13 or less in two of Kaepernick's seven starts, and only 17 offensive points in another. I guess Kaepernick is pretty much the same as Smith.

Well then I guess when a 7 year pro's inconsistency is comparable to 2 2nd year QB's, one of whom is making his first 8 career starts, that is "above average" Qb play.

Also who cares about injury? Every QB is injured at some point in the season, but Alex Smith has been this guy for far longer than the 2 games he had his finger injury.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Well then I guess when a 7 year pro's inconsistency is comparable to 2 2nd year QB's, one of whom is making his first 8 career starts, that is "above average" Qb play.

Also who cares about injury? Every QB is injured at some point in the season, but Alex Smith has been this guy for far longer than the 2 games he had his finger injury.

Not in 2012. I know I have already mentioned this but in the two games with the finger injury,

33/53 (62.3%)
340 yards
6.4 YPA
1 TD
4 INT
55.5 passer rating

Otherwise,

120/165 (72.7%)
1397 yards
8.5 YPA
12 TD
1 INT
119.7 passer rating

It just seems oddly coincidental to me. Maybe an injury on his throwing hand actually affected his play?

[Monomach]

Chad Pennington faked an ACL injury after the 2010 season so he could "retire." He killed Alex Smith, stole his identity, won the starting job in San Francisco, looked like his usual weak-armed-efficient-game-manager self, and got himself traded to Kansas City.

Andy Reid just traded two early picks for a 36 year old game manager.

WHY IS NO ONE INVESTIGATING THIS THEORY

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Chad Pennington faked an ACL injury after the 2010 season so he could "retire." He killed Alex Smith, stole his identity, won the starting job in San Francisco, looked like his usual weak-armed-efficient-game-manager self, and got himself traded to Kansas City.

Andy Reid just traded two early picks for a 36 year old game manager.

WHY IS NO ONE INVESTIGATING THIS THEORY

I'm not entirely convinced Alex Smith is as good as Chad Pennington was. That would render the theory moot.

[ViperVisor]

The Giants game was the worst game Smith played at home since his 1st start in 2005 vs the Colts. 4 INTs 0 TDs and uglier than that line even suggests.

I give half credit to the Giants and coaching staff. But other half was just doo-doo from the 49ers.
Smith was looking like he hadn't for 3 years.
Also running Kaepernick on the field on every drive failing on a 3rd and 6 run, getting a false start, taking a long sack.
A holding wiped out a 1st down.
Leonard dumbo Davis false start turns a 3rd and 1 into 3 and 6. *INT*
Delay of game on 3rd and 11. *INT*
Fail all over.

I didn't pay attention to the finger as all the misinformation and nonsense from coaches throughout the week gives you little reason to believe anything. But it seemed like a factor.

[Halsey]

How is a conditional mid round pick "early"?

I just looked at the 34th pick all the way back the 2004 Draft. It's not all that impressive of a list. A few good players and also some busts. There's a good chance the Chiefs would have used that pick on a QB if they had kept it. Seems to me it can be argued the Chiefs gave up a second round QB in the 2013 Draft and a conditional mid round pick in the 2014 Draft for Alex Smith. Not seeing this huge fleecing that many are claiming.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by Halsey

How is a conditional mid round pick "early"?

I just looked at the 34th pick all the way back the 2004 Draft. It's not all that impressive of a list. A few good players and also some busts. There's a good chance the Chiefs would have used that pick on a QB if they had kept it. Seems to me it can be argued the Chiefs gave up a second round QB in the 2013 Draft and a conditional mid round pick in the 2014 Draft for Alex Smith. Not seeing this huge fleecing that many are claiming.

#34 is essentially a first round pick. It's kind of silly to talk about it like it's trash.

That conditional pick can be a second rounder. Somehow I don't think you'd be in a hurry to give away second rounders or early thirds for marginal players if they were Atlanta's picks.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Chad Pennington faked an ACL injury after the 2010 season so he could "retire." He killed Alex Smith, stole his identity, won the starting job in San Francisco, looked like his usual weak-armed-efficient-game-manager self, and got himself traded to Kansas City.

Andy Reid just traded two early picks for a 36 year old game manager.

WHY IS NO ONE INVESTIGATING THIS THEORY

Smith isn't as smart with the football or as accurate as Pennington was, but he has a much better arm.

[MasterShake]

Originally Posted by Halsey

How is a conditional mid round pick "early"?

I just looked at the 34th pick all the way back the 2004 Draft. It's not all that impressive of a list. A few good players and also some busts. There's a good chance the Chiefs would have used that pick on a QB if they had kept it. Seems to me it can be argued the Chiefs gave up a second round QB in the 2013 Draft and a conditional mid round pick in the 2014 Draft for Alex Smith. Not seeing this huge fleecing that many are claiming.

Pick 36 of the 2011 draft seems to be working out well...

[jrdrylie]

Originally Posted by Halsey

How is a conditional mid round pick "early"?

I just looked at the 34th pick all the way back the 2004 Draft. It's not all that impressive of a list. A few good players and also some busts. There's a good chance the Chiefs would have used that pick on a QB if they had kept it. Seems to me it can be argued the Chiefs gave up a second round QB in the 2013 Draft and a conditional mid round pick in the 2014 Draft for Alex Smith. Not seeing this huge fleecing that many are claiming.

Just because guys picked at 34 have been busts doesn't mean it isn't a valuable pick. Every year, a Pro Bowl player has been drafted in the 34 area. Let's not act like early second round picks aren't important. And no, they would not have used 34 on a QB. They would have used 1 on a QB.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by Monomach

#34 is essentially a first round pick. It's kind of silly to talk about it like it's trash.

That conditional pick can be a second rounder. Somehow I don't think you'd be in a hurry to give away second rounders or early thirds for marginal players if they were Atlanta's picks.

The 34th pick is the 34th pick, regardless of what round you want to call it or what your emotional attachment to it is. History suggests that pick 34 is a long way from a lock for being a good player. That's not talking trash, it's just the way it is.

The Chiefs should know that a second round pick is not always going to turn into a great player. They gave away Tony Gonzalez for Javier Arenas.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Just because guys picked at 34 have been busts doesn't mean it isn't a valuable pick. Every year, a Pro Bowl player has been drafted in the 34 area. Let's not act like early second round picks aren't important. And no, they would not have used 34 on a QB. They would have used 1 on a QB.

If they liked a QB enough to take him #1, they wouldn't have traded for Alex Smith.

[FlyingElvis]

2012 . . . Free Agent Alex Smith. Phone doesn't ring.

2013 . . . Contracted Alex Smith. Worth 2/34 and more.

What changed? Half a season of decent game managing followed by a concussion and loss of job. It's amazing to me that this thread has the legs it has and so many misguided members supporting this trade and/or this 28 year old, mediocre game manager of a QB.



I completely understand the frustration of a fanbase that has to consistently suffer re-tread QBs that provide little chance for true hope that the problem might, for once in a long time, be solved.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by Halsey

The 34th pick is the 34th pick, regardless of what round you want to call it or what your emotional attachment to it is. History suggests that pick 34 is a long way from a lock for being a good player. That's not talking trash, it's just the way it is.

The Chiefs should know that a second round pick is not always going to turn into a great player. They gave away Tony Gonzalez for Javier Arenas.

You can say this stuff about literally every single pick of the draft. I don't understand why people do it. Look at the range of like 25-45. Those are usually the same level of prospects. That makes a lot more sense than looking at a single pick and pretending that it's cursed or whatever. Why do we look at just 34 and not at least the 5 or 6 picks immediately following it? Those players are all available there, too.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

2012 . . . Free Agent Alex Smith. Phone doesn't ring.

2013 . . . Contracted Alex Smith. Worth 2/34 and more.

What changed? Half a season of decent game managing followed by a concussion and loss of job. It's amazing to me that this thread has the legs it has and so many misguided members supporting this trade and/or this 28 year old, mediocre game manager of a QB.

I completely understand the frustration of a fanbase that has to consistently suffer re-tread QBs that provide little chance for true hope that the problem might, for once in a long time, be solved.

Anybody can criticize a trade like this, but where's your better and realistic alternate solution?

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Anybody can criticize a trade like this, but where's your better and realistic alternate solution?

Not necessarily in a best to worst order, though I'd clearly put Cassel as the worst option:

Foles. Younger, clearly a Reid guy. Eagles likely would have drooled over the chance to get 34+ for him. Much higher ceiling and many more years to reach it.

Geno. Younger. Stronger arm and his issues should be something a QB "Guru" like Reid can develop well. Much higher ceiling and many more years to reach it.

Cassel. I won't try to argue that he and Alex are the same guy. Clearly Cassel has proven to be terrible and can't even manage a game. Still, for the price, I think it's a legitimate point that Reid is supposed to be good enough to develop this type of mediocre QB.

If Alex Smith were still 24-25 years old I could buy into this trade some. At 28 (29 in May) it's just absurd. He doesn't have the arm strength to last as an NFL starter into his mid 30s. Trading 34+ for a mediocre QB with a 4 year expected shelf life is just dumb. Is there a chance it works out great? Sure. There's also a chance that a powerball ticket will win the big jackpot.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Anybody can criticize a trade like this, but where's your better and realistic alternate solution?

Resign Brandon Albert. Draft Geno Smith at 1, Tavon Austin at 34. Sign Matt Moore to compete with Smith. Booyakasha.

Resign Brandon Albert. Draft Luke Joeckel at 1, Tyler Wilson/EJ Manuel at 34. Sign Matt Moore to compete, since he's basically Alex Smith lite.

There are a million scenarios better than this one. Or hell, Carson Palmer. He'll be unemployed at some point this offseason. I don't see a big difference between Smith and Palmer at this point in their respective careers, except Carson can still pump it downfield (not like he used to, but still).

[49erNation85]

Damn you'all are still hating on this trade. Let it go peeps. Yea its a killer deal but **** happens and fans are never happy until a team makes it or wins a super bowl.

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

2012 . . . Free Agent Alex Smith. Phone doesn't ring.

2013 . . . Contracted Alex Smith. Worth 2/34 and more.

What changed?

Mostly Smith and 49ers a fit if Manning didn't sign up.

And some NFL Teams are run/owned by cowards/idiots.