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Old 02-27-2013, 03:51 AM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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Are you asking what scouts had him at or draftniks? Because where he goes in the draft has no real bearing on what we thought of them. Did anyone think he was going to be a HOF-caliber corner? Probably not. But I think many thought very highly of him. I know I did. And McKelvin, pre-season of that year, was in consideration for the top corner along with Revis and Leon Hall (and I'm not sure why... or well, I know why, but if people watched them, I don't know why they'd think that).

I find it funny that if people were awful in evaluating players (or the media/scout consensus was similar) they tend to believe that no one else could have gotten it right.
Lol, shots fired at me?

To be honest, I have zero recollection of what I thought of Revis back then. Online cut ups were more difficult to come by and unless you watched Pitt on a consistent basis, most people only had the scouting reports they read to form their opinions. That and a highlight of a punt return.

I'm simply pointing out that when people are ranking the top prospect over the past several years (Claiborne, Peterson, now Millner) they keep lumping in Revis. I'm asking if anyone even had Revis as that level of prospect or if they're letting his NFL career cloud their memory.

Guys like Terrance Newman were far superior prospects to Revis coming out. Obviously, that didnt translate to the NFL. But that isn't the question. The question is what level prospect was he?

I'm not sure anyone outside of Pitt fans considered him elite like a Pacman/Hall/Peterson/Newman/Claiborne

So, mr Ted Ginn show, I'm simply asking a question. No reason to get your thing in a wad.

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Old 02-27-2013, 04:57 AM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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Haha. No, I wasn't calling you out. If you're talking about that second little paragraph, that was just a general statement, because it seems like people here are often like to not give people credit for when they got something right (and, conversely, often times people will only look at what others may have gotten wrong in the past).

It's too bad we don't have a better archive system here. Maybe an official topic of player rankings and analysis right before each year's draft from those that want to participate. Lock that up somewhere and then we can really go back and see where people stood.

In any case, to ask what sort of prospect a person was is kind of difficult because you would probably have to frame your question pretty stringently to get the appropriate answer. If you asked 5 NFL scouts their opinions on a prospect, the answers would more than likely differ. With draftniks, their beliefs would probably be even more widespread. Are you talking about college production and media hype? As a physical specimen? What about character? Are you combining it all? Do certain things weigh more heavily than others? Do you want just what one person's opinion was, what the draftnik community opinion was, what Mayock and Kiper's opinions were, where they went in the draft, what? I just think it's kind of a silly question because it seems like unless people get the answer they had predetermined for their question, they're going to disregard it.

Also, as a side-note, I find it interesting that people keep bringing up Pacman as an elite prospect when he was a known headcase even before he stepped on an NFL field. I'm curious to know then what we are and are not factoring into these prospect evaluations.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
Haha. No, I wasn't calling you out. If you're talking about that second little paragraph, that was just a general statement, because it seems like people here are often like to not give people credit for when they got something right (and, conversely, often times people will only look at what others may have gotten wrong in the past).

It's too bad we don't have a better archive system here. Maybe an official topic of player rankings and analysis right before each year's draft from those that want to participate. Lock that up somewhere and then we can really go back and see where people stood.

In any case, to ask what sort of prospect a person was is kind of difficult because you would probably have to frame your question pretty stringently to get the appropriate answer. If you asked 5 NFL scouts their opinions on a prospect, the answers would more than likely differ. With draftniks, their beliefs would probably be even more widespread. Are you talking about college production and media hype? As a physical specimen? What about character? Are you combining it all? Do certain things weigh more heavily than others? Do you want just what one person's opinion was, what the draftnik community opinion was, what Mayock and Kiper's opinions were, where they went in the draft, what? I just think it's kind of a silly question because it seems like unless people get the answer they had predetermined for their question, they're going to disregard it.

Also, as a side-note, I find it interesting that people keep bringing up Pacman as an elite prospect when he was a known headcase even before he stepped on an NFL field. I'm curious to know then what we are and are not factoring into these prospect evaluations.
Head case for sure but still went 6 overall IIRC? Obviously his return skills were factored into that but people felt pretty highly of him.

I remember he had a battle against Kellen Winslow and the U that seemed to get him a ton of notoriety.

As far as Revis is concerned, I was more exploring whether the consensus was that he was an elite, can't miss CB prospect when coming out. My recollection was that he was a good prospect, and the best in his class, but not elite.

If he were coming out this year or last year, would he be the first CB off the board? I'm guessing probably not. Meaning from a "prospect" perspective, guys like Claiborne and Miller are better.

Of course it's highly unlikely either ever have his success in the NFL

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Old 02-27-2013, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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Revis went #14 in the draft which isn't bad but it clearly means no NFL team drafting 1 to 13 thought he was elite because elite ranked CB's don't get out of the top 10. He was considered a very solid prospect who turned out to be great.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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I had Revis as #1 CB that year without a doubt.


But I can't recall if i thought he was top 10 worthy. I just remember being adament that he was better than Leon Hall.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Also...found this looking through the old Revis threads from 2007...made me chuckle....

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If we pass up on Reggie Nelson, I think Im gonna cry.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Head case for sure but still went 6 overall IIRC? Obviously his return skills were factored into that but people felt pretty highly of him.

I remember he had a battle against Kellen Winslow and the U that seemed to get him a ton of notoriety.

As far as Revis is concerned, I was more exploring whether the consensus was that he was an elite, can't miss CB prospect when coming out. My recollection was that he was a good prospect, and the best in his class, but not elite.

If he were coming out this year or last year, would he be the first CB off the board? I'm guessing probably not. Meaning from a "prospect" perspective, guys like Claiborne and Miller are better.

Of course it's highly unlikely either ever have his success in the NFL
The consensus wasn't that he was elite. Personally, I had loved him since before his Sophomore year, and he was my favorite player in college ball the year he came out. Added to that, as a Jets fan, we had a dire need for a CB, so he was at the very top of the board, so that only fueled the desire to praise him at the time. I thought he was far and away the best CB in that class, but I was also attending Ohio State at the time and got to see plenty of Leon Hall. Revis, to me, seemed special. He had everything you'd want to have in a corner and a good head on his shoulders (unforeseen contract issues notwithstanding). I remember being completely sold on him (especially in the athleticism department) after his ridiculous punt return TD. That year, he was my #4 prospect, behind Megatron, Joe Thomas, and Willis (may have been tied or very close to Michael Griffin and Dwayne Bowe... I remember thinking very highly of them). But really, since people didn't think THAT highly of Revis, I don't think he was ever brought up in conversations of greatest recent CB prospects. Watching them, though, the prospects I thought were better were Hall and Peterson. I didn't really see Newman and Jammer, but everything considered, I'm sure I would have thought they were better. In my original post, though, I only brought up the very most recent prospects because I felt those were the only ones relevant.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Look at Richard Sherman. He was Revis esque this year. He wasn't taken highly. Janoris Jenkins and Casey Heyward, both were probably the best rookie CBs this year out of the 2012 CB class. They weren't 1st rounders.

Having an ELite CB doesn't always translate to Super Bowl victories. Look at the niners and Ravens. Their front 7 were stout and consistently generating pressure. Their back end was solid. (ed reed, is an elite ball hawk).

Even Revis struggled a bit in 2011 due to the Jets lack of pass rush and pressure on the QB.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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Look at Richard Sherman. He was Revis esque this year. He wasn't taken highly. Janoris Jenkins and Casey Heyward, both were probably the best rookie CBs this year out of the 2012 CB class. They weren't 1st rounders.

Having an ELite CB doesn't always translate to Super Bowl victories. Look at the niners and Ravens. Their front 7 were stout and consistently generating pressure. Their back end was solid. (ed reed, is an elite ball hawk).

Even Revis struggled a bit in 2011 due to the Jets lack of pass rush and pressure on the QB.
This is why I absolutely love Milliner and it would be nice to have a piece like him on the Raiders, but I would much rather see McKenzie focus on the front 7.

I think Milliner can be absolutely fantastic. But I don't think he should go #3.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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The consensus wasn't that he was elite. Personally, I had loved him since before his Sophomore year, and he was my favorite player in college ball the year he came out. Added to that, as a Jets fan, we had a dire need for a CB, so he was at the very top of the board, so that only fueled the desire to praise him at the time. I thought he was far and away the best CB in that class, but I was also attending Ohio State at the time and got to see plenty of Leon Hall. Revis, to me, seemed special. He had everything you'd want to have in a corner and a good head on his shoulders (unforeseen contract issues notwithstanding). I remember being completely sold on him (especially in the athleticism department) after his ridiculous punt return TD. That year, he was my #4 prospect, behind Megatron, Joe Thomas, and Willis (may have been tied or very close to Michael Griffin and Dwayne Bowe... I remember thinking very highly of them). But really, since people didn't think THAT highly of Revis, I don't think he was ever brought up in conversations of greatest recent CB prospects. Watching them, though, the prospects I thought were better were Hall and Peterson. I didn't really see Newman and Jammer, but everything considered, I'm sure I would have thought they were better. In my original post, though, I only brought up the very most recent prospects because I felt those were the only ones relevant.
Yeah, if you're a fan of a team with a perceived need that makes sense. I spend a lot more time watching players I think the Cowboys will take, or that I think they should take, and probably consider them better prospects because of my focus on them.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Milliner does not play to that timed speed. I don't see the same talent as Claiborne in Milliner. And I also really like Trufant, I hope he falls to Denver
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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i love milliner. he's a fantastic prospect.... but i had claiborne rated higher. both will be studs heading towards the future.
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