Alex Smith is a Chief

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Splat

Alex Smith is easily better than Matt Cassel but I still hate the trade. Pretty much anyone not named Brady Quinn or Ricky Stanzi would be an upgrade over Cassel.

Under better circumstances, Smith has not been better than Cassel with good offensive coaches. The numbers are completely in Matt's favor.

I like Alex Smith, the move just doesn't make any sense.

[Jvig43]

At BEST, Smith may be marginally better. You don't give up that much more for marginally better.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by nepg

Under better circumstances, Smith has not been better than Cassel with good offensive coaches. The numbers are completely in Matt's favor.

I like Alex Smith, the move just doesn't make any sense.

You are forgetting that both played in different offensive schemes. With Harbaugh and Roman the running attack is emphasized on a lot. So you weren't going to see huge numbers regarding Smith. Heck, Colin Kaepernick's first 300 yard game came against the Ravens.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by Ness

You are forgetting that both played in different offensive schemes. With Harbaugh and Roman the running attack is emphasized on a lot. So you weren't going to see huge numbers regarding Smith. Heck, Colin Kaepernick's first 300 yard game came against the Ravens.

And the coach that just traded for him doesn't run the same scheme. The offense he's going to relies on the QB making more plays. If you're already agreeing that doing so isn't his strong suit, how can you argue this is a good fit?

Unless you're not arguing that. I can't even tell anymore.

[Jvig43]

So Cassel is being punished for being in a system that is reliant on him airring it out more than Smith? That only helps his case. His numbers came in a system where defenses didn't have to respect the run game. I don't see how that helps Smith's case any.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Ness

You are forgetting that both played in different offensive schemes. With Harbaugh and Roman the running attack is emphasized on a lot. So you weren't going to see huge numbers regarding Smith. Heck, Colin Kaepernick's first 300 yard game came against the Ravens.

Charles and Jones ran for nearly 1500 and 900 yards, respectively when Cassel had his second best season which is destroys Smith's 2011

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

So Cassel is being punished for being in a system that is reliant on him airring it out more than Smith? That only helps his case. His numbers came in a system where defenses didn't have to respect the run game. I don't see how that helps Smith's case any.

I'm simply explaining why looking at bigger numbers and exclaiming player A is clearly better B isn't a sound approach. The situation isn't that black and white.

[Splat]

They both suck balls. Alex Smith just sucks a little less.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Splat

They both suck balls. Alex Smith just sucks a little less.

The point is that it was a pointless waste of draft picks and people trying to say it's an upgrade are saying so blindly. ****, the two even have the same contract, essentially.

I'm not going to rule out Alex becoming Brees because I've always liked him, but it's be really stupid to expect anything more than him struggling and this trade looking really awful in a few months.

[Rosebud]

Ness is successful mindfucking us right now

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...cKRL1rk__rCZow

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Ness

I'm simply explaining why looking at bigger numbers and exclaiming player A is clearly better B isn't a sound approach. The situation isn't that black and white.

Well I really am happy to see that a 9er is admitting that in this "Smith debate" (not saying that you werent previously), but that argument was so god damn persistent around these parts for Smiths defense back in the fall, it was obnoxious.

I do agree with you, but that still leaves us with an unanswered question. How is Smith proven to be the better player than what Cassel has displayed, when both were incorporated in heavily talented systems and teams? I don't think that is being adequately addressed here, and is worth noting. Cassel excelling in a pass first oriented system, as you brought up, only helps his case and hurts Smith case for me. I would much rather put stock in a QB's career year that came under a system dependent on them throwing the ball around to win, than a QB who had the crutch of a running game and a defense (San Frans D is so much better than the Pats d the year Cassel was in). I just dont think that argument helps Smith's case here imo Ness.

[WCH]

This thread could really use a JordanTaber scouting report on Alex Smith.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by WCH

This thread could really use a JordanTaber scouting report on Alex Smith.

Better than Barry Sanders!

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Well I really am happy to see that a 9er is admitting that in this "Smith debate" (not saying that you werent previously), but that argument was so god damn persistent around these parts for Smiths defense back in the fall, it was obnoxious.

I do agree with you, but that still leaves us with an unanswered question. How is Smith proven to be the better player than what Cassel has displayed, when both were incorporated in heavily talented systems and teams? I don't think that is being adequately addressed here, and is worth noting. Cassel excelling in a pass first oriented system, as you brought up, only helps his case and hurts Smith case for me. I would much rather put stock in a QB's career year that came under a system dependent on them throwing the ball around to win, than a QB who had the crutch of a running game and a defense (San Frans D is so much better than the Pats d the year Cassel was in). I just dont think that argument helps Smith's case here imo Ness.

I don't know. I don't think it proves one is better than the other. Both players need a good team around them to excel. We'll have to see this year how Reid works with Alex and how he incorporates him into his system. What the Chiefs gave up to get Smith was stupid, but regardless that doesn't mean Alex will be terrible with the Chiefs. As far as both players in different systems are concerned, Cassel and the Chiefs did have a run heavy offense in his best year. The season before that when Charlie Weis wasn't there that didn't seem to be the case though with Todd Haley calling all the shots.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Ness

I don't know. I don't think it proves one is better than the other. Both players need a good team around them to excel. We'll have to see this year how Reid works with Alex and how he incorporates him into his system. What the Chiefs gave up to get Smith was stupid, but regardless that doesn't mean Alex will be terrible with the Chiefs. As far as both players in different systems are concerned, Cassel and the Chiefs did have a run heavy offense in his best year. The season before that when Charlie Weis wasn't there that didn't seem to be the case though with Todd Haley calling all the shots.

I think that after reading this post, we are both pretty much in agreement. The point is, this was a bad trade for the Chiefs.

[Iamcanadian]

The bottom line is that Reid believes that Alex Smith suits his WCO to a tee, Cassel didn't and that is all that matters. If Smith delivers 8-10 wins then it was an excellent trade for KC, if he doesn't then people can come back after the facts are in and be critical, till then, nobody cares what the nay sayers are spouting.
Reid wanted this trade and will obviously live or die by it, he made his choice and we'll just have to wait to see how it works out.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

So Cassel is being punished for being in a system that is reliant on him airring it out more than Smith? That only helps his case. His numbers came in a system where defenses didn't have to respect the run game. I don't see how that helps Smith's case any.

I am pretty sure that the 2008 Patriots running game was better in YPG and YPC than the 49ers in 2011, though.

[Halsey]

If NFL teams were run by fans like many here seem to be, many teams would simply not have a QB. These fans seem to have the idea that any QB who is not a top 10 QB "sucks". Bad news is that there's 32 teams. Unless NFL start sharing QBs, or the league is reduced to 10 teams, most of the NFL will start a QB who "sucks". Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson would be the ideal head coach for these fans, because he likes running an offense without a QB.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

The bottom line is that Reid believes that Alex Smith suits his WCO to a tee, Cassel didn't and that is all that matters. If Smith delivers 8-10 wins then it was an excellent trade for KC, if he doesn't then people can come back after the facts are in and be critical, till then, nobody cares what the nay sayers are spouting.
Reid wanted this trade and will obviously live or die by it, he made his choice and we'll just have to wait to see how it works out.

Yup, pretty much this.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

The bottom line is that Reid believes that Alex Smith suits his WCO to a tee, Cassel didn't and that is all that matters. If Smith delivers 8-10 wins then it was an excellent trade for KC, if he doesn't then people can come back after the facts are in and be critical, till then, nobody cares what the nay sayers are spouting.
Reid wanted this trade and will obviously live or die by it, he made his choice and we'll just have to wait to see how it works out.

I didn't realize 8-10 wins was what you wanted out of your "franchise" QB. I thought it was to win a championship.

This naysayer has seen the light! Bring on Alex Smith!

[Ness]

Alex might have a good season with the Chiefs this upcoming year while the defense tanks or something else causes the Chiefs to implode. We'd have to see how things play out in context.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by Ness

Alex might have a good season with the Chiefs this upcoming year while the defense tanks or something else causes the Chiefs to implode. We'd have to see how things play out in context.

I dunno. Maybe.

No one wants to eat crow on this more than I do, no one, I just don't think I will.

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by vidae

I didn't realize 8-10 wins was what you wanted out of your "franchise" QB. I thought it was to win a championship.

This naysayer has seen the light! Bring on Alex Smith!

If the offense scored 10 more per game the team is still only mid range offense.

Defense 4 less a game gets to average.

That gets approx to 8-8 record

The team SUCKED. Worst point dif by a bit.
And like the 2004 49ers the strength of schedule wasn't abnormally tough. 49ers in 2004 actually was sub .500 with only 2 Wins
Both 31st in TO margin


It requires QB and more to turn around a team.

49ers had already tried to get a tackle in the draft 2 years earlier in 2003. Kwame Harris. He was young like Anthony Davis and maybe just needed more time. Nope. A Bust. Signed LT Jonas Jennings. A Bust.

Brandon Lloyd had flashes but was traded.
Rashaun Woods. A Bust.
A few 3rd round WRs you don't hope for much but neither could be even a role guy.

Gore came in with Smith. Great player but a grinder not game breaker.

Drafted combine stars with some success.
Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson

Patrick Willis + a couple D pieces
Joe Staley a future LT is traded up for.

Kentwan Balmer
Chilo Rachal
2 more Busts seal Nolan and co fate. Do find a role WR late finally.

Michael Crabtree holds out and hops on 1 foot towards bustville for about 2 seasons.

Anthony Davis
Mike Iupati
Due to fail of Christmas past 2 rookies stepped into starting spots.


It should be obvious the lack of a winning record and good offense for years goes beyond Alex Smith and the QB play. A lot of 49ers fans were too bitter/dumb to recognize it.
And the winning turn around is more than Jim Harbaugh is a magical coach. The talent on the team matured and more importantly stayed healthy.
And the 1 missing piece from the team was acquired in that 2011 draft. Not a QB. A pass rush.
Aldon Smith.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by vidae

I didn't realize 8-10 wins was what you wanted out of your "franchise" QB. I thought it was to win a championship.

This naysayer has seen the light! Bring on Alex Smith!

Alex Smith could have a 158.3 QB rating and throw for 450 yards with 6 TDs in the Owl but lose by a two point conversion in the final minute, and you would ***** that you gave up that precious second rounder for a non Owl winning QB. Your constant screaming of "CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPIONSHIP" when you gave up a second and next year third is ridiculous. You didn't give up the Jay Cutler haul, or the Carson Palmer haul, or anything like that.

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Ness

Alex might have a good season with the Chiefs this upcoming year while the defense tanks or something else causes the Chiefs to implode. We'd have to see how things play out in context.

The defense with 5 pro bowlers on it is going to implode?