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Old 02-28-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
Monomach
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Matt Miller tweeted that Matt Barkley wouldn't make it past the Cards. This was also pushed by major national news people.

It would seem the great reach for a QB is on.
I have a super hard time believing this. Can you imagine Arians calling all of those deep balls he likes with Matt Barkley? Opposing safeties would have a field day catching those puntesque bombs.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I have a super hard time believing this. Can you imagine Arians calling all of those deep balls he likes with Matt Barkley? Opposing safeties would have a field day catching those puntesque bombs.
Also, what is this based on? They guy can't even work out, so why would he be on the rise as such?
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Also, what is this based on? They guy can't even work out, so why would he be on the rise as such?
Christain Poinder and Blaine Gabbert can be first round picks but Matt Barkely(who was considered a Heisman canidate at one point) can't? Ever since the rookie salary cap teams are reaching for qbs in the first round.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
I have a super hard time believing this. Can you imagine Arians calling all of those deep balls he likes with Matt Barkley? Opposing safeties would have a field day catching those puntesque bombs.
I don't deny it would be a questionable fit, but it was widely reported.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Barkley in the third if he's still there when the Chiefs are picking. Seems to be a good fit in the WCO and Reid could groom him for a year or two while Alex Smith starts.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Word around the camp fire is that Mike Lombardi is in love with Geno Smith.

:/
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeDan17 View Post
Word around the camp fire is that Mike Lombardi is in love with Geno Smith.

:/
You are more than welcome to trade up to #1 to ensure you get him.

In fact, that sounds like a very Michael Lombardi thing to do. Yayyy!
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Word around the camp fire is that Mike Lombardi is in love with Geno Smith.

:/
Hes supposed to love Ryan Mallett. :(
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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You are more than welcome to trade up to #1 to ensure you get him.

In fact, that sounds like a very Michael Lombardi thing to do. Yayyy!
Either we give you our entire 2013-14 draft in exchange, OR we take the dude who ran the fastest 40 time.

I'm just as numb as you vidae.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Either we give you our entire 2013-14 draft in exchange, OR we take the dude who ran the fastest 40 time.

I'm just as numb as you vidae.
It has to get better for us eventually, right? RIGHT!?
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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It has to get better for us eventually, right? RIGHT!?
Uhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Christain Poinder and Blaine Gabbert can be first round picks but Matt Barkely(who was considered a Heisman canidate at one point) can't? Ever since the rookie salary cap teams are reaching for qbs in the first round.
Who said he couldn't be a first round pick?
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith is either headed to Arizona or Buffalo I get the feeling.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Either we give you our entire 2013-14 draft in exchange, OR we take the dude who ran the fastest 40 time.

I'm just as numb as you vidae.
Lombardi learned from big Al. Just fall in love, baby.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Christain Poinder and Blaine Gabbert can be first round picks but Matt Barkely(who was considered a Heisman canidate at one point) can't? Ever since the rookie salary cap teams are reaching for qbs in the first round.
But is that a good thing to do? doesnt seem to be working out too well...

2013 ? Geno? yuck. Barkley? i dont think so his ceiling is andy dalton.
2012 Weeden
2011 Gabbert (I never saw ponder so im not including him)
2010 Tebow
you could even go to 2009 if you werent a Sanchez guy but i got roped into that so I didnt want to go there =(

all of those guys were clear as day not first round guys, not even close based on their gameplay having very significant holes in college. and yet they landed there. So far theyve played exactly like their talent level suggested they would. Theyve sucked. Geno has more raw talent than those guys save Gabbert whos a wussy with a big P, but he has so many things he doesnt do well and bad habits that generally crush guys moving to the next level.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Word around the camp fire is that Mike Lombardi is in love with Geno Smith.

:/
Why is that a bad thing? Cleveland doesn't have a QB, and Geno is a beautiful fit for Norv and Chud in a vertical offense. Both of them have made far less talented QB's look great, and hell Chud got Derek Anderson to the pro bowl. I don't know why people are so afraid of Geno, Cleveland drafting another LB isn't going to make them any better.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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But is that a good thing to do? doesnt seem to be working out too well...

2013 ? Geno? yuck. Barkley? i dont think so his ceiling is andy dalton.
2012 Weeden
2011 Gabbert (I never saw ponder so im not including him)
2010 Tebow
you could even go to 2009 if you werent a Sanchez guy but i got roped into that so I didnt want to go there =(

all of those guys were clear as day not first round guys, not even close based on their gameplay having very significant holes in college. and yet they landed there. So far theyve played exactly like their talent level suggested they would. Theyve sucked. Geno has more raw talent than those guys save Gabbert whos a wussy with a big P, but he has so many things he doesnt do well and bad habits that generally crush guys moving to the next level.
You have completely NAILED the point I am trying to make. I didn't even bring up old man Weeden. I meant WTF?? You are correct, none of these guys were first round picks from a talent standpoint, but a bevy of excuses were made for all of them. All I am saying is, what's the difference with Geno? Why not excuses for him just like the rest of them? Geno has has flaws, but he is a WAY better passer than all of them! Does that not count for much now adays? Apparently not since supposedly most GMs don't rate him a first round pick.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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You have completely NAILED the point I am trying to make. I didn't even bring up old man Weeden. I meant WTF?? You are correct, none of these guys were first round picks from a talent standpoint, but a bevy of excuses were made for all of them. All I am saying is, what's the difference with Geno? Why not excuses for him just like the rest of them? Geno has has flaws, but he is a WAY better passer than all of them! Does that not count for much now adays? Apparently not since supposedly most GMs don't rate him a first round pick.
see this is where we disagree, it sounds like you think hes being sold short. I think theyre watching his games now and realizing he has a solid arm and can hit what he wants to most of the time.

But he does get happy feet and his system is a huge concern. Hes never read a defense (as evidenced by how often he forced the ball) and hes slow moving from read to read on the rare occassion he looks for a second option at all. Guys like that usually have serious issues at the next level where time is very limited. he has arm talent but teaching those parts of the mental game to someone is very difficult and takes time for the vast majority of QBs if they get it at all.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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see this is where we disagree, it sounds like you think hes being sold short. I think theyre watching his games now and realizing he has a solid arm and can hit what he wants to most of the time.

But he does get happy feet and his system is a huge concern. Hes never read a defense (as evidenced by how often he forced the ball) and hes slow moving from read to read on the rare occassion he looks for a second option at all. Guys like that usually have serious issues at the next level where time is very limited. he has arm talent but teaching those parts of the mental game to someone is very difficult and takes time for the vast majority of QBs if they get it at all.
I feel like this has sort of been underemphasized. I've dinged Geno a lot for not going through reads, but it's not like that means he's "dumb" or "can't read defenses." If he hasn't been doing it already, and has to learn, the fact that he's both going to have to know waaaaay more and have considerably less time to execute is a humongous question mark. Far too many people are pooh-pooing this.

Yes, he can throw beautiful passes. Which does absolutely nothing for your team if he throws it to the wrong place. What will Geno look like when he has to go through progressions? What will happen when his receiving corps isn't two steps above the level of their competition? No one has any idea. The fact that he's looked bad in the few situations where he should've made reads but didn't or has faltered under pressure are not reassuring.

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Old 02-28-2013, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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see this is where we disagree, it sounds like you think hes being sold short. I think theyre watching his games now and realizing he has a solid arm and can hit what he wants to most of the time.

But he does get happy feet and his system is a huge concern. Hes never read a defense (as evidenced by how often he forced the ball) and hes slow moving from read to read on the rare occassion he looks for a second option at all. Guys like that usually have serious issues at the next level where time is very limited. he has arm talent but teaching those parts of the mental game to someone is very difficult and takes time for the vast majority of QBs if they get it at all.
Yes, he is being sold short, but not because he doesn't have his own issues. He's being sold short because comparatively speaking, they ALL had issues, most of which were greater than his. But none of them were said to not be first round QBs as a result.

Also, I don't understand how you can claim this guy had happy feet. I have not heard or personally observed that criticism. I do however believe that given his lack of offensive weapons outside of two very good receivers, he should have ran more and there are reports that his own coaching staff wanted him to run more.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else worry about Geno seeming rather oblivious to outside pressure? He doesn't appear to have a very good feel for what's going on outside his line of sight.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I feel like this has sort of been underemphasized. I've dinged Geno a lot for not going through reads, but it's not like that means he's "dumb" or "can't read defenses." If he hasn't been doing it already, and has to learn, the fact that he's both going to have to know waaaaay more and have considerably less time to execute is a humongous question mark. Far too many people are pooh-pooing this.

Yes, he can throw beautiful passes. Which does absolutely nothing for your team if he throws it to the wrong place. What will Geno look like when he has to go through progressions? What will happen when his receiving corps isn't two steps above the level of their competition? No one has any idea. The fact that he's looked bad in the few situations where he should've made reads but didn't or has faltered under pressure are not reassuring.
There was no viable third option on the field and Smith studies his craft so there is reason to think he will work hard to improve in this area.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else worry about Geno seeming rather oblivious to outside pressure? He doesn't appear to have a very good feel for what's going on outside his line of sight.
I would say yes, this is a concern, but I also wonder how much of that was due to having two receiving options on every play.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Why is that a bad thing? Cleveland doesn't have a QB, and Geno is a beautiful fit for Norv and Chud in a vertical offense. Both of them have made far less talented QB's look great, and hell Chud got Derek Anderson to the pro bowl. I don't know why people are so afraid of Geno, Cleveland drafting another LB isn't going to make them any better.
A.) I don't necessarily think it's bad. I have only watched him play for or five games and it was essentially playground football. I'm just reserved, that's all.

B.) You have to understand why my confidence in the team succeeding in any facet is low.

But you're absolutely right. Chud worked wonders with DA. No reason to think he cant at least be solid under Norv.

Ultimately, I would welcome the selection. I have no further interest in Weeden, I'm sick of the washed up FAs. It's time to try to develop a young prospect.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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Also, I don't understand how you can claim this guy had happy feet. I have not heard or personally observed that criticism. I do however believe that given his lack of offensive weapons outside of two very good receivers, he should have ran more and there are reports that his own coaching staff wanted him to run more.
He has happy feet. I've written that about him since I started scouting him. His feet are always tip-tapping around the pocket. He's always shifting around, not just dropping back, hitting his stride and releasing. He's always locked in on a target, bouncing his feet, waiting for him to come open. He's got no sense of timing.

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Anyone else worry about Geno seeming rather oblivious to outside pressure? He doesn't appear to have a very good feel for what's going on outside his line of sight.
Yes. This is one of my chief concerns. He's never looked instinctive to me. He gets sacked when he has escape lanes. He'll run up against the offensive linemen in front of him. He hesitates to run when he should run, and sometimes his eyes come down and he starts running around when he's got time and he should be standing tall. Shades of Gabbert. I like him better than Gabbert, but I see some concerning similarities between them as prospects, mainly having to do with their pocket presence.

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There was no viable third option on the field and Smith studies his craft so there is reason to think he will work hard to improve in this area.
Oh, bull. "No viable third option" meaning "only two guys who are going to be gone by the third round in this year's draft?" Give me a break.
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