Thoughts on cap penalties for Boys and Skins?

Guru · 02-27-2013, 08:02 AM

I'm sure you all have heard the story by now. During the uncapped year these two teams refused to partake in a gentlemens agreement Salary Cap and were stripped of tones of cap dollars. This is obviously collusion at it's core but I'm not sure the NFL has to play by those rules.

I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this?

jrdrylie · 02-27-2013, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

I'm sure you all have heard the story by now. During the uncapped year these two teams refused to partake in a gentlemens agreement Salary Cap and were stripped of tones of cap dollars. This is obviously collusion at it's core but I'm not sure the NFL has to play by those rules.

I'm curious to see people's thoughts on this?

The players could actually have a good case in this. The owners basically had a handshake agreement to limit spending to around $123 million during the uncapped year and punishment was possible if this number was not obeyed. Essentially, the NFL owners were working under a salary cap despite the contract explicitly stating that 2010 would be an uncapped year.

These moves were obviously a breach of the CBA. The NFL was purposefully keeping more money in the hands of the owners while preventing the players from receiving more money. The problem is no players really got screwed in this, it was the Cowboys and Redskins, so the players aren't going to do anything about it.

Trogdor · 02-27-2013, 08:46 AM

The penalty from a legal standpoint was illegal and wouldn't have a chance if it had made it to open court PRIOR to the NFLPA lifting the lockout. The league covered it's behind nicely by coercing the NFLPA into agreeing with the sanctions when the lockout was lifted which *should* keep this out of courts even if the Redskins pursue it. Owners NEED each other and you won't be a member of the "good ol boys" club for long if you consistently challenge the other owners.

That being said the fact the penalty was accessed harshly only to the team that were division rivals to Giant's owner John Mara speaks volumes to the competitive spirit of ownership and the lengths they are willing to go with their power. Keep in mind Mara is the chair of the NFL management council and actually pushed for both teams to lose draft picks in addition to the fines.

Jughead10 · 02-27-2013, 08:50 AM

It's a whole team first vs. league first mentality argument. Mara and his father have been battling Jerry Jones on this for years in a number of different aspects. Mainly TV money. It's a slippery slope the NFL as whole walks because they act as 1 corporation when it benefits them, but then they'll act as 32 separate corporations when it benefits them also.

killxswitch · 02-27-2013, 08:51 AM

A couple things. First, it's stupid that any team could be penalized for spending in an uncapped year. If there's a penalty for spending, that means there was a cap. Second, the Cowboys and Redskins weren't the only two teams that massively frontloaded contracts during that year. I remember the Texans and at least one western team did the same and were either penalized to a much lesser degree, or not penalized at all. I forget the details, which is unfortunate. It does seem like Mara took an opportunity to kick some division rivals in the ass.

All that said I don't like either team that got screwed so I'm not too torn up about it.

LonghornsLegend · 02-27-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor

Keep in mind Mara is the chair of the NFL management council and actually pushed for both teams to lose draft picks in addition to the fines.

Haha really? I always thought it was weird that you can get punished for something that wasn't breaking any written rules. Then again, I'm more upset about Doug Free's contract and the fact that he is still on the team more so then I am this cap money.

Guru · 02-27-2013, 09:25 AM

Well it certainly is hurting players on both squads as now they'll have to cut some big contracts in order to get under the cap, due directly to the cap penalty, collusion, etc. I think Moss, and Hall are the biggest two with Steiger and Polumbus being others as I doubt they start for any other team in the NFL. And that also directly affects competitive balance, which is one reason these penalties were levied.

WCH · 02-27-2013, 10:40 AM

I believe the current CBA has language that prevent the NFLPA from filing suit over violations of all previous CBAs.

Basically, Demaurice Smith is a dumbass.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-27-2013, 10:44 AM

It was more of an accounting issue rather than a spending issue. Also, collusion doesn't matter in the NFL because they are exempt from antitrust laws.

FUNBUNCHER · 02-27-2013, 10:47 AM

Snyder IMO is about to pull an Al Davis.
The talk you hear in D.C. is he's about to unleash his lawyers and sue the NFL to get that cap money back.

I support my team owner standing up for the franchise, but we all know there will be retaliation by the other league owners.

Goodell took $36 mil in cap space away from the SKins. He's got to find a way to get some of that money back.

Guru · 02-27-2013, 11:09 AM

How is what the redskins and boys did to free up money any different than what NE did with Brady's contract?

niel89 · 02-27-2013, 11:40 PM

Honestly I morally think the penalties are bogus, but its against Jerry Jones and Snyder so I don't really care.

Monomach · 02-28-2013, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

How is what the redskins and boys did to free up money any different than what NE did with Brady's contract?

Well, it's different because the two situations don't resemble each other in any way.

There's a cap this year and Brady signed an extension that isn't frontloaded at all.

Examples:

Cap hits for Brady:
13.8
14.8
13
14
15

Cap hits for DeAngelo Hall:
5.3
19.7 <----
5.0
6.5
8.0
9.5

Monomach · 02-28-2013, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89

Honestly I morally think the penalties are bogus, but its against Jerry Jones and Snyder so I don't really care.

Pretty much where I am. I think if the league was dumb enough to let an uncapped year exist, teams should have been able to do whatever the hell they wanted.

On the other hand, Jones and Snyder are giant d-bags, so whatever.

Forenci · 02-28-2013, 12:20 AM

Didn't the league specifically tell the teams NOT to do what the Cowboys and Redskins did though?

Monomach · 02-28-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Didn't the league specifically tell the teams NOT to do what the Cowboys and Redskins did though?

Yeah, but it wasn't an official rule or anything. It was just a general case of collusion on the part of the owners.

Forenci · 02-28-2013, 12:25 AM

Gotcha. Still, you have question the owners for doing that after they said not to.

Rosebud · 02-28-2013, 01:11 AM

**** the Cowboys and the Redskins. They didn't technically break any rules or nothing, but **** em anyway for thinking they're hot ****.

FUNBUNCHER · 02-28-2013, 01:26 AM

Die John Mara, DIE!!

He's the real reason the SKins are in cap hell. He's the one who pushed for the $36 mil cap penalty and wanted to take draft picks from the Skins too.

Jerruh is scared cause he's an old man.

Danny boy ain't scared of nothing.

Guru · 02-28-2013, 11:37 AM

Regardless, of whether you like either team, the impact could be devastating because I highly doubt either of these teams will sign off on a new CBA in future years or if they'll be as willing to share revenue. The aftermath of this could turn the NFL into baseball and these two teams into the Yankees. JMO though.

Not to mention the league approved these contracts. Why were they approved if they were illegal?

Jughead10 · 02-28-2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Regardless, of whether you like either team, the impact could be devastating because I highly doubt either of these teams will sign off on a new CBA in future years or if they'll be as willing to share revenue. The aftermath of this could turn the NFL into baseball and these two teams into the Yankees. JMO though.

They've never wanted to share revenue. That's the basis of all of this. When they had an opportunity when there was no salary cap they took advantage of it despite all the owners have a gentlemen's agreement. I also think you can sign a CBA in future years if it was 30-2 from the owners. If Jerry and Dan had any real power, there would already be no salary cap. If was definitely a little petty by Mara and the other owners, but there is definitely a divide there. And they seem to be tired of butting heads with Jerry and Dan on revenue, tv rights, cap, etc. So when they had a chance to stick it to them, they did.

Rosebud · 02-28-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

They've never wanted to share revenue. That's the basis of all of this. When they had an opportunity when there was no salary cap they took advantage of it despite all the owners have a gentlemen's agreement. I also think you can sign a CBA in future years if it was 30-2 from the owners. If Jerry and Dan had any real power, there would already be no salary cap. If was definitely a little petty by Mara and the other owners, but there is definitely a divide there. And they seem to be tired of butting heads with Jerry and Dan on revenue, tv rights, cap, etc. So when they had a chance to stick it to them, they did.

Exactly. **** em.

dan77733 · 02-28-2013, 05:25 PM

I'm a 49ers fan but no fan of any team should be happy with what the NFL did to the Cowboys and Redskins. After all, the NFL approved the contracts at the time they were sent to the league office and did nothing about anything until 8 months later. Sorry but both teams were screwed over and if I was Snyder and or Jones but especially Snyder, I would sue the league and go through with it because its not fair.

If the other 30 teams didnt want to spend any money, thats up to them but the Redskins and Cowboys should have never ever been penalized for doing what they did in an UNCAPPED YEAR.

Guru · 03-01-2013, 11:17 AM

Didn't the Texans do the same thing with Schaubs contract and the Bears with Peppers contract? Where are those penalties? If true, where are those penalties?

Monomach · 03-01-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Regardless, of whether you like either team, the impact could be devastating because I highly doubt either of these teams will sign off on a new CBA in future years or if they'll be as willing to share revenue. The aftermath of this could turn the NFL into baseball and these two teams into the Yankees. JMO though.

Not to mention the league approved these contracts. Why were they approved if they were illegal?

lolwut

These two teams have been fighting revenue sharing forever. The other 30 owners would just kick them out of the league and render their franchises worthless before allowing them to end the salary cap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Didn't the Texans do the same thing with Schaubs contract and the Bears with Peppers contract? Where are those penalties? If true, where are those penalties?

Nope. Schaub's had a fairly standard unguaranteed roster bonus toward the end of his contract. This happens a lot to inflate the "media value" of contracts. If he'd sucked before it came around, he would have been cut and the Texans wouldn't have risked nearly as much money as they would otherwise. Common practice...unless you reeeeeally think the Texans said "3 years from now, instead of working out a CBA, we're going to descend into a clusterfuck and have an uncapped year. Let's take advantage of that!"

Peppers contract didn't have one crazy inflated year. His 2010 cap number wasn't crazy out of line with the rest of the years. It was only about 5 million higher. people are just looking at spotrac now and seeing that low 2011 number and assuming things without knowing that he restructured that year.

The Redskins and Boys restructured existing contracts during the uncapped year, when they already knew a CBA was not going to be in effect, to move money from other years into that year...and they did it with truly enormous amounts of money. For example, they did a Haynesworth voidable years restructure. They made his cap number 25.6 million..it's was originally 8.8 million!

It's entirely different. They didn't break an official rule, but they WERE doing some egregious stuff no other teams were dong.

Frankly, the amount of whining and crying and pretending that it was business as usual their fans are doing about it kind of makes me happy that they got ***** slapped.