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Old 02-09-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Tom Haverford
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Well I liked when we were young because we had SO much potential in terms of bringing in great players. We had a chance at so many guys, even after we signed Stat. We had a REAL chance at Melo, Stat and CP3. We blew that when we were idiotic and signed Chandler. Sorry he will never be worth his contract or having him on the team because signing him cost us much more than just 60 million dollars. It cost us a chance at building a team capable of competing with the Heat year in and year out.

Age isn't overrated at all. Big deal, the Celtics won a championship. Not only that but it was BECAUSE of their age they didn't win more. Constant injuries, guys getting wore down, etc. And if you think we're good as the Celtics were you're fooling yourself. Pierce was fantastic, KG was like Chandler but with an offensive game, and Allen was just a lights out shooter. Look at the Celtics now. They are going no where in the near future and are foolish enough to keep aging guys around in some faint glimmer they might repeat.

Oh and they had a fantastic coach in Rivers. Woodson isn't that special. He's a great defensive coach but those are a dime a dozen in the NBA. He is terrible offensively. You're not a great coach if you're inept on one side of the ball. Fortunately for us we have a bunch of ball dominating guys so it works right now. It won't work in the playoffs, where as you say, it's a different animal.

And we're built to beat the Heat? So laughable. An ancient Camby and one dimensional defender in Chandler is the size that will beat the Heat? A limited Stat? Absurd. Heat will run all over us and take their defense to another level in the playoffs like they always do. I don't care we've beaten them twice. Means absolutely nothing.

I'm sorry, I just have a hard time taking you seriously when it comes to the Knicks for two reasons: 1) You're a massive homer, 2) Unlike Rosebud and LtGiants you never gave a **** about the Knicks when they sucked. It was only once we did started preforming well that you gave a damn. So don't mock me when you're saying I loved this team when we sucked and don't when we're decent. I love the Knicks, but not the team we're fielding.

I'm just a realist when it comes to basketball. It's not like football, hockey or baseball. It's different. We're not beating the Heat. I don't understand how you can even think of that when have had ONE playoff win under Woodson. That's garbage. You're already talking of crushing the Bulls and facing the Heat. I'll be happy if we win more than one damn game for a change.

And being old does hurt us. Mike Woodson doesn't know how to manage an old team properly.
If our team is so bad why do we keep winning? Explain that one to me. How are we the 2 seed?

And don't even go there. I was a Knicks fan longer than anyone here. Just bc I didn't post about it didn't mean I wasn't a fan. Why would I post about them? I knew after being a Knicks fan through the Ewing era that there was no point of even getting excited about them until they either cleared their cap space or got the #1 pick. Like you said basketball is different. You know who is gonna compete. The dark ages from 2000 - 2010 were not even remotely interesting for Knicks fans other than laughing at our own mediocrity. So yeah, I'm not gonna post about it. It was a waste of time. Who was there to get excited about?

And yes, I'm a homer. And proud!

I don't get how you can hate Chandler. Centers are so rare in this league. Right here right now name me 3 Centers you'd want over Chandler.

Dwight? When healthy of course, but he's been hurt, he's a *****, and his offense is grossly overrated. Bynum? He's never healthy. Noah? He's basically a younger shorter version of Chandler who is in the same salary range. Hibbert? He's soft.

We have a top tier Center. Defensive player of the year. His size is instrumental for us to use Melo at the 4. We can't do that if we don't have Chandler next to him.

You're way under rating Chandler.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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If our team is so bad why do we keep winning? Explain that one to me. How are we the 2 seed?

And don't even go there. I was a Knicks fan longer than anyone here. Just bc I didn't post about it didn't mean I wasn't a fan. Why would I post about them? I knew after being a Knicks fan through the Ewing era that there was no point of even getting excited about them until they either cleared their cap space or got the #1 pick. Like you said basketball is different. You know who is gonna compete. The dark ages from 2000 - 2010 were not even remotely interesting for Knicks fans other than laughing at our own mediocrity. So yeah, I'm not gonna post about it. It was a waste of time. Who was there to get excited about?

And yes, I'm a homer. And proud!

I don't get how you can hate Chandler. Centers are so rare in this league. Right here right now name me 3 Centers you'd want over Chandler.

Dwight? When healthy of course, but he's been hurt, he's a *****, and his offense is grossly overrated. Bynum? He's never healthy. Noah? He's basically a younger shorter version of Chandler who is in the same salary range. Hibbert? He's soft.

We have a top tier Center. Defensive player of the year. His size is instrumental for us to use Melo at the 4. We can't do that if we don't have Chandler next to him.

You're way under rating Chandler.
When did I say we were bad? I never said that. I said I don't think we're going to do a whole lot in terms of getting in the finals. Yes you've been a Knicks fan longer than anyone here but that's not saying much. I've been a Knicks fan since I was a kid. You just happen to be older.

So your team gets crappy and you just don't follow them? I'm sorry but that's not being a true fan. I still followed them despite them being god awful. I still supported them despite having a terrible head coach. I still followed them knowing damn well it'd be years before they turned it around. And guess what? I still follow them now, even if I don't like the players on the team. And liking players doesn't have anything to do with liking the team. I love the Knicks.

And big deal about Chandler. When's the last time a great center has been apart of winning championships? Shaq with the Lakers? You don't need a great center to win. And I'm not going to hold centers getting injured as a reason to choose them over Chandler. You could argue that Chandler has been fairly injury prone over the course of his career too. I'd take Noah, Dwight, Brook Lopez, Andre Drummond (based more off project-ability), Javale McGee, and Chris Bosh over him. Granted it's not Bosh's true position but its what he plays. Also Tim Duncan, but again, that can be argued due to technical position. Hell, despite your rants against Anderson Varejao the man is a damn good player and center. I don't know why you always knock Brodeur for that when Varejao has played great.

Chandler is a great defensive player. I'm not disputing this. I don't give a **** about his whole, "I'm the defensive captain, I make the team accountable on defense" garbage. No, the head coach makes the team accountable for that. Woodson has done this his entire career.

I'm not saying it would have happened, but a chance at CP3 FAR FAR FAR outweighs a one dimensional center. You don't need a great center to win in the NBA anymore. And I don't even have a problem with the deal itself, really. Big men and players get super overpaid in the NBA. It's the opportunity cost by signing him which makes him and overrated player and signing.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Who said I stopped following? I just said I never posted about them. Like you do now. You watch the games you just don't talk about them.

I did the same. I still followed them. I didn't watch every game but I saw at least 40% of em. I actually rooted for them to lose. Bc I felt we needed good draft picks to rebuild. But we never lost enough to get the 1 overall or have a chance at it, or we pissed away the picks. If rooting for them to lose makes me a bad fan then I'm guilty of that. I felt it was for the greater good of the team. But I followed them.

I admit I was excited when we got Steph. And Malik. Hell even Nazr.

I hated the trade for mcdyess. I wanted Stat that year or Nene. And I wanted Boozer in the 2nd. That's why Stat is my favorite Knick. I loved him before he ever was a Knick. I wanted Bynum instead of Frye.

Anyway long story short I always followed the team. Just never talked about it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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Made a quick Shumpert sig if anyone wants it
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Except my reasoning for not posting was completely different. I still follow and watch 80-90% of the games. The reason I don't post about it is two fold, though. The main reason is I'm just busy with grad school. For me, I'd rather spend my time talking about the Giants than anything else.

Two, I don't post in the NBA thread because it's basically just became a name calling session. Oh lets make fun of Brodeur all the time because he has a different opinion, oh lets make fun of somebody else. It's become somewhat of a bullying affair and it's stupid to me.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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When did I say we were bad? I never said that. I said I don't think we're going to do a whole lot in terms of getting in the finals. Yes you've been a Knicks fan longer than anyone here but that's not saying much. I've been a Knicks fan since I was a kid. You just happen to be older.

So your team gets crappy and you just don't follow them? I'm sorry but that's not being a true fan. I still followed them despite them being god awful. I still supported them despite having a terrible head coach. I still followed them knowing damn well it'd be years before they turned it around. And guess what? I still follow them now, even if I don't like the players on the team. And liking players doesn't have anything to do with liking the team. I love the Knicks.

And big deal about Chandler. When's the last time a great center has been apart of winning championships? Shaq with the Lakers? You don't need a great center to win. And I'm not going to hold centers getting injured as a reason to choose them over Chandler. You could argue that Chandler has been fairly injury prone over the course of his career too. I'd take Noah, Dwight, Brook Lopez, Andre Drummond (based more off project-ability), Javale McGee, and Chris Bosh over him. Granted it's not Bosh's true position but its what he plays. Also Tim Duncan, but again, that can be argued due to technical position. Hell, despite your rants against Anderson Varejao the man is a damn good player and center. I don't know why you always knock Brodeur for that when Varejao has played great.

Chandler is a great defensive player. I'm not disputing this. I don't give a **** about his whole, "I'm the defensive captain, I make the team accountable on defense" garbage. No, the head coach makes the team accountable for that. Woodson has done this his entire career.

I'm not saying it would have happened, but a chance at CP3 FAR FAR FAR outweighs a one dimensional center. You don't need a great center to win in the NBA anymore. And I don't even have a problem with the deal itself, really. Big men and players get super overpaid in the NBA. It's the opportunity cost by signing him which makes him and overrated player and signing.
This very center two years ago? With Kidd by his side, an unconscious elite scoring matchup-nightmare at the 4, and role players stepping up.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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This very center two years ago? With Kidd by his side, an unconscious elite scoring matchup-nightmare at the 4, and role players stepping up.
Damn if only we had the same formula we'd be set!
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why Woodson decided to experiment with his lineup vs the Clippers of all teams today. That lineup was brutal. Hopefully we can bounce back. Pirgioni is awful btw. I wish we could find a better 3rd PG so we can cut him.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why Woodson decided to experiment with his lineup vs the Clippers of all teams today. That lineup was brutal. Hopefully we can bounce back. Pirgioni is awful btw. I wish we could find a better 3rd PG so we can cut him.
Eric Bledsoe.......
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Eric Bledsoe.......
We don't have the assets to trade for him. I'd love to have him.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Forenci is right too. Felton is pissing me off. Get your fat ass in gear Felton. He's been terribly inefficient lately.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Felton being terribly inefficient? The **** you say...
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I mean, it's not surprising at all. He's in his career norms which is why I was a bit surprised when you guys hammered me for saying he wasn't that good.

He is what he is. Average/below average. Poor/inconsistent defender, poor scorer, and solid distributor.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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To me, him being an average offensive player was good enough. At least that's what I thought. But until Shump can get healthy and give us some perimeter defense we're in trouble, bc Felton's main issue is there.

He's good enough to me from an offensive perspective, he's not great, but we don't need great, but we need some perimeter defense in the worst way.

For the price though, I think he's more than earned his paycheck. We got good value with him.

Kidd is breaking down. Natural, I expected that. We're forced to play him way too many minutes right now. We need Camby to get healthy asap, we need Kidd to play less minutes, and we need Shump to heal quickly.

And if Sheed can't get healthy, we need to sign Martin asap. We need another body.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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I heard something interesting on the radio today:

In the 1st quarter, we rank 26th in the league on defense. In the 2nd quarter, 26th. In the 3rd quarter, 14th (i think).

In the 4th quarter...4th. So that tells me this team is capable of playing good defense and turns it on when the game starts winding down, and really clamp up in the 4th when they make their run.

My question is, why can't they do it for 4 quarters? And is this evidence that perhaps the defense while mediocre now, will intensify in the playoffs when the games are more important?
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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I just don't like how old we are. That's the main reason I don't like this team. The Celtics lucked out and had everyone healthy that season they won it all. After that it was chronic injuries. Their success after that came from the development of Rondo which really made them successful. He doesn't get enough credit for their first ring. The Celtics basically almost had four star/great players.

I just don't see that happening for us. We're too old. We're too slow. The Heat in the playoffs will run ALL over us.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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My concern is just that: teams that can run all day. The Rockets killed us this year by doing that, and that's the blueprint on beating us. Quick guards who can run all day.

But I'm hoping that Shumpert can alleviate some of that. He needs to get healthy. And hopefully we can go big with Camby back (we desperately need him back) and that can counter some of these guards bc when they win off the dribble they have to run into Chandler and Camby in the post.

That's all we can hope for.

The other way to beat us is the Chicago blueprint. They have Deng who can guard Melo 1 on 1, and they flood the 3 point line with defenders. That takes away our shooters.

But Stat getting better should help there. Bc now we'll have 2 post players. If Stat can give us 20 minutes a night the way he has, we'll be fine there.

But perimeter defense is scaring me. We need to find some kind of solution there.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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And the thing is the Heat will bump their defense up CONSIDERABLY in the playoffs. Their defense from the regular season to the playoffs is night and day. They absolutely shut teams down in the playoffs. LeBron at the 4 vs Melo in the 4 favors LeBron big time. LeBron is just a much better defender at this point. I don't think we match up well with the Heat all, to be honest.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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My goal is to play the Heat in the ECF. To me anything after that is gravy. Nobody is gonna beat the Heat. They're the best team in the league. But at least show me something. That's all I want. Let's play them for the right to make the Finals. That's all I want, and I think we can conceivably get there.

Now how we match up vs the Heat really depends on the health of our front court IMO. We need all those big bodies healthy and able, bc we're gonna need them to beat up on LeBron and Bosh down low to have any chance.

But why can't we beat everyone else in the East? I think we're capable of doing that. And that's my expectations for this season. Meet the Heat in the ECF. And take it from there.

But this team should set that goal. They are capable of getting there. It's not like the East is loaded like the West. The only other 2 teams we need to worry about are Chicago and Indy, and I think we can beat both of them.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Our perimeter defense is just terrible. Felton looks like he got fat again and he's pissing me off.

Bc they suck so hard on the perimeter now Chandler is playing on the perimeter and it's taking away our paint presence.

Offensively no one is moving without the ball anymore. They fell into these awful habits and it's not being coached out of them.

The only solutions I can think of is we need to go 2 big with Chandler and Camby. Our offense will naturally take a hit bc now Melo goes to the 3, but our defense would drastically improve bc now we have our paint presence back and a strong paint presence to make up for Guards penetrating our perimeter at will.

And we just have to hope Shump improves his agility with more time. He's slowly getting back to last year.

In the draft they need to look at perimeter defenders. That needs to be the goal of this draft class. We have a 1st and 2nd, we gotta make em count with 2 good perimeter defenders.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Our perimeter defense is just terrible. Felton looks like he got fat again and he's pissing me off.

Bc they suck so hard on the perimeter now Chandler is playing on the perimeter and it's taking away our paint presence.

Offensively no one is moving without the ball anymore. They fell into these awful habits and it's not being coached out of them.

The only solutions I can think of is we need to go 2 big with Chandler and Camby. Our offense will naturally take a hit bc now Melo goes to the 3, but our defense would drastically improve bc now we have our paint presence back and a strong paint presence to make up for Guards penetrating our perimeter at will.

And we just have to hope Shump improves his agility with more time. He's slowly getting back to last year.

In the draft they need to look at perimeter defenders. That needs to be the goal of this draft class. We have a 1st and 2nd, we gotta make em count with 2 good perimeter defenders.
I think Felton was just a little less fat. Now he's regular fat like he usually is. Fat.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I think Felton was just a little less fat. Now he's regular fat like he usually is. Fat.
Yeah once that pinky broke it's like his fatass went into fatass mode again.

And Kidd was due for an oil change like 10k miles ago.

So we have a serious perimeter defense problem. And we seriously need to feed Stat in the post whenever he's in the game and Melo isn't. I don't get why he isn't the primary focus of our offense when Melo goes to the bench and he comes in. His post game is actually pretty damn good now, we need to utilize that.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Probably because Mike Woodson doesn't know how to run an offense.

Just sayin'.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Here's the problem though. Who are we gonna replace him with? There aren't any HCs available that would be an upgrade to Woodson.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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BUMP! Basketball season is here fellas!

All Knicks fans are welcome (even Forenci). I'm excited about this season. I'm looking forward to seeing Shump develop. Please please please don't be dumbasses and trade him Knicks. I seriously hate James Dolan.

But here's to a championship run in 2014!

*raises glass*
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