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Old 03-02-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace
He showed with his bench that he's lazy in his workout habits too and we know he can't learn from his mistakes with the weed. Not interested in any round.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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i think he would be an excellent little tiny FS
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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He's undersized and not very strong. The guy had all year to work on doing nothing but combine tests. He comes out and throws up 4 bench presses, runs way slower than he needed to at his size, and just didn't measure up. From the combine, combined with game film, his playstyle just doesn't look like it will translate to the next level at all.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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He's worth a shot for a 4th or 5th rounder to have as a RS and NB.

Teams have been drafting players specifically for being a nickel back the last 5 or so years.

Teams will sit down and assess the drugs and what now through the interview process. On film, I'd say he's likely a 2nd or 3rd, but with the added risk I'd slide him to a 4th. Ultimately, I think he'll go somewhere in the late 3rd-early 5th range
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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He showed with his bench that he's lazy in his workout habits too and we know he can't learn from his mistakes with the weed. Not interested in any round.
I can't blame you for that, he does have a ton of baggage. I'm not going to blame him too much for the weight and lack of training because he was out of the football program. We don't really know it but there would be a bunch of guys if out of the program could realistically keep themselves in football shape.


I mean he has been gone since August right? All things considered, does anybody realistically believe his combine would have been exactly the same if he had been with the LSU S&C coach for 7 months straight? So taking that into consideration I thought his combine looked great, he's very fluid and natural, great awareness, I just think he'll be a good football player. What it boils down to, is he's lazy and smokes weed.


I don't want that in a QB or a team leader, but I'd guess there are a bunch of guys in the same situation right now in the NFL. People killed Dez for his pro day and everywhere you read it was considered lack luster. He couldn't finish some drills, was out of breath, and he was still out of shape for Training Camp that year. It had been a long time since he'd done anything with a football program, but now that he has for awhile and has a structure to push him to workout everyone forgets that if it was a lockout he'd more then likely be lazy.


Plus, I think guys who can create turnovers on D, and score points on special teams, are wildcards to have on a football team and ultimately win games. He's not good enough to warrant taking in the 2nd for me but there is a high bust rate of 3rd rounders as is and skill wise he's a safe pick IMO.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Jeremiah said he's never in his experience heard a DB downgraded due to the bench press.

And while he's not a perfect off-the-field case by any means, I think players with far more baggage have been drafted way higher than Matheiu. He just doesn't seem like a guy I'd label with character issues. I think he was immature and made some dumb decisions but overall he handled it and that showed maturity. I'd argue the coke rumors for Mallett were more concerning than what happened here.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Tyrann Mathieu, better know as Honey Badger had a pretty good Combine.
He showed the instincts of a shut down CB and some say, he was a mile ahead of every other CB at the Combine in that area.

MR. Dukes, an analyst on the 'Path to the Draft' even suggested, he could go round 1, that's how he saw him perform at the combine.

What say you all?

I have to admit, he really impressed me with his combine performance but I'm still inclined to think he will be no better than a late round 2 or round 3 pick. His hip rotation was out of this world, why are there so many talented head cases in this year's draft, Christine Michael is just another terrible waste of talent.
At the combine Tyrann reminded everyone he is one of the best players in the nation. Tyrann was invited to Heisman Presentation as a Sophomore DB. Tracking and catching footballs in shorts is birthday cake for him. His talent has always been 1st round quality.

He is going to slide because of his off the field. Tyrann is saying he changed his life around, but if you take him you need to be ready to tolerate a few failed drug test. Which is why some teams won't have him on their boards.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace
His upside is Bob Sanders though.


Definitely worth a 3rd round pick or later. I'd pick him up in the 3rd round in a heartbeat. It's worth it to gamble on elite talent like that.

However, 2nd round is dicey for me. If I really felt good about him after interviewing him, and I was a team with very few elite players on my defense, I'd strongly consider gambling on him in the 2nd round like the Rams gambled on Janoris Jenkins last year.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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His upside is Bob Sanders though.
His upside is having two good seasons and getting paid like he had 5 before becoming a tiny, broken wreck and an official bust?


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Old 03-03-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Jeremiah said he's never in his experience heard a DB downgraded due to the bench press.
The only time I would really take the Bench test seriously for a DB is if a guy's already got character concerns, since the BP is really an off-the-field test anyway. If you're worried about a guy not being a self-starter, not being motivated, and not willing to put in work anyway when he goes to the combine and lifts poorly then I'm concerned regardless of position.

If a DB lifts poorly but is clean off the field I don't care at all. If a DB lifts poorly and is a concern off the field I have questions, but not questions I can't resolve by talking to people. So Matthieu's BP really only hurts him if he doesn't interview well and if coaches/staff/background checks reflect poorly on him.

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Old 03-03-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see how those shutdown corner instincts work for him against a Brandon Marshall. Prediction: 15 catches for 200 even with safety help.

He's weak and small.
coincidentally Cutler would have 15 completions for 200 yards that game
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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The only time I would really take the Bench test seriously for a DB is if a guy's already got character concerns, since the BP is really an off-the-field test anyway. If you're worried about a guy not being a self-starter, not being motivated, and not willing to put in work anyway when he goes to the combine and lifts poorly then I'm concerned regardless of position.

If a DB lifts poorly but is clean off the field I don't care at all. If a DB lifts poorly and is a concern off the field I have questions, but not questions I can't resolve by talking to people. So Matthieu's BP really only hurts him if he doesn't interview well and if coaches/staff/background checks reflect poorly on him.
Good point. The problem for me is he ####ed up but then didn't really use it as a learning opportunity. At some point you have to wonder how he'd be with a bunch of money in his pocket. Then again maybe going from LSU to the NFL you have to take a pay cut. There is that.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I think he goes in the 3rd round. He showed his movement skills and that he has the speed to play in the league. Alone with him playing ST and returning punts and kicks he's a 5th round pick. With him being able to play nickel CB takes him to a 3rd rounder. Would have been a 2nd rounder but he likes to smoke bud, which to me is not that big of a deal. He was a good player while smoking it. But sitting out games is why you don't want him too
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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His upside is having two good seasons and getting paid like he had 5 before becoming a tiny, broken wreck and an official bust?
Ah man, how can anyone hate on Bob Sanders?? Guy put it all on the field everytime
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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He's an idiot, and I wouldn't trust him to stay clean to make him a significant part of any gameplan, but numbers be damned, Tyrann does NOT play the game weak. He's very physical and can definitely hold his own strength wise with much bigger players.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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He's an idiot, and I wouldn't trust him to stay clean to make him a significant part of any gameplan, but numbers be damned, Tyrann does NOT play the game weak. He's very physical and can definitely hold his own strength wise with much bigger players.
Some game film out there says otherwise.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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No. Most game film agrees. Dude is physical as a small DB can be.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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6th-UDFA, anything more for an accesory with his size and strength is grounds for firing. Maybe he could play man on Chad Hall.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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He's an idiot, and I wouldn't trust him to stay clean to make him a significant part of any gameplan, but numbers be damned, Tyrann does NOT play the game weak. He's very physical and can definitely hold his own strength wise with much bigger players.
Yeah, he did that in college...

When your #1 attribute is "tenacity" and you throw up 4 reps it reflect very poorly on your ability to continue that playstyle in the NFL. On top of that, when you don't really separate yourself athletically from the other corners, missed a season because of a million failed weed tests, and are under-sized anyway... I tend to discard that person as someone I'd draft.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, he did that in college...

When your #1 attribute is "tenacity" and you throw up 4 reps it reflect very poorly on your ability to continue that playstyle in the NFL. On top of that, when you don't really separate yourself athletically from the other corners, missed a season because of a million failed weed tests, and are under-sized anyway... I tend to discard that person as someone I'd draft.

Again, do you realize how difficult it would be to seperate yourself athletically from other corners who have played an entire season of football and trained within the program for the past year? You guys make it seem like increasing bench press reps once your into an NFL program is brain surgery, he'll have that over 10 before September. Anybody who misses an entire season of football and is away from the program for the last year is going to be lacking athletically, I don't care who it is. You won't find one person who won't and he's no different.


But for some reason nobody takes that into consideration and looks at his combine as if that's the best he has to offer.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:54 AM    (permalink
badgerbacker
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I'd be happy if the Packers took him in the late 3rd round or 4th round although they typically stay away from these types of guys. Obviously a gamble, but he has the potential to be a difference maker as a slot cornerback and returnman. He can be a poor man's version of what Charles Woodson was on defense the last two years and can replace Randall Cobb on punt returns. I'd roll the dice, but I'm guessing the Packers won't.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I don't care about the off-field stuff. He seems sincere and honest and in fact it's sort of admirable that he cut weed out of his life. I don't think NFL teams will have an issue with that and I think they'll trust him going forward. It only takes one team also.

He's a weapon with upside. I'd be surprised if he lasted past the 2nd round.

IMMEDIATELY he steps in as a big-time return threat and high-end specials prole (wow). He can also play the nickel which is basically a starter. He can play man or zone inside, make plays on the ball, strip the football, and he's a terrific blitzer. And he's got the potential to play outside as well.

Defensive coaches who want help in the secondary (so all defensive coaches) are going to want this kid BADLY. He's can make an immediate impact and has the potential to be an outside starter. If your team trusts him, it's worth it as high as the 2nd.

I usually have a rule. Prospects whose only on-field concern is his size are usually worth drafting at a discount. Matheiu has the make-up and production to be a terrific NFL player. On the field the only thing that isn't ideal is his size. This happens with guys liek Sproles, Jenkins, Wilson, and Harvin every year. I'll never forget Parcells showing us his H-W prototypes for each position. Just badly pigeon-holing himself and missing out on awesome prospects without even seeing a snap of their ability. Stupid.

And I would not be surprised if Pete Carroll took him at 25.
I tend to agree with this assessment although round 1 may be a little high. No doubt Cincy also will be in the running for his services. Zimmer seems to have a real nack for getting something out of character issue players. It is amazing how many defenders on Cincy were problem prospects.

The guy will never be a press CB but in man to man coverage, he is about as good as it gets except for his height limitations. He is a very fierce competitor and totally confident in his ability.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by badgerbacker View Post
I'd be happy if the Packers took him in the late 3rd round or 4th round although they typically stay away from these types of guys. Obviously a gamble, but he has the potential to be a difference maker as a slot cornerback and returnman. He can be a poor man's version of what Charles Woodson was on defense the last two years and can replace Randall Cobb on punt returns. I'd roll the dice, but I'm guessing the Packers won't.
Considering that Casey Hayward will be a second year player and is on track to being one of (if not the) best slot CBs in the league, I would think GB would see Matthieu as much less valuable than virtually every other team (i.e. those who don't have a 23 year old high end slot CB.)

Particularly since GB has a rep for being one of the most hard-line teams on character, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

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