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Old 03-04-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
It only has a correlation when 2 prospects are considered to have a realistic shot to be successful at the next level, it means little when a prospect fails the eye test as Jones does.
What is the "eye test"? Is that the test that made Tom Brady drop into the 6th round and made Vernon Gholston a lock top-10 prospect?

If you say a prospect has no shot to be successful just because you don't like the way he "looks" to you, then that is just as bad as me saying that a prospect is a lock to be a top-10 QB because of his stats in college.

Stats in college should be a baseline, or should bring up red flags for some other prospects. The stats show that Landry Jones fits the profile of successful NFL QBs, much more so than other prospects in this draft. Does that mean that he is a lock to be this in the NFL? No. But he should be given more weight than the other guys with the exception of Geno Smith and maybe EJ Manuel. He certainly shouldn't be dismissed as a 5th round prospect or worse.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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What is the "eye test"? Is that the test that made Tom Brady drop into the 6th round and made Vernon Gholston a lock top-10 prospect?

If you say a prospect has no shot to be successful just because you don't like the way he "looks" to you, then that is just as bad as me saying that a prospect is a lock to be a top-10 QB because of his stats in college.

Stats in college should be a baseline, or should bring up red flags for some other prospects. The stats show that Landry Jones fits the profile of successful NFL QBs, much more so than other prospects in this draft. Does that mean that he is a lock to be this in the NFL? No. But he should be given more weight than the other guys with the exception of Geno Smith and maybe EJ Manuel. He certainly shouldn't be dismissed as a 5th round prospect or worse.
Because the eye test puts the stats in perspective. There is a reason why Texas Tech QBs are not starters in the NFL. The eye test will tell you WHEN bad things happened and good things happened. The eye test will tell you when a guy was open and he missed him, or when he had a better option. The eye test will tell you that Landry sometimes appears to give up on plays in which he stops reading his progressions and fires off some junk.

As far as Gholston, he didn't pass my eye test no matter how much I yelled. And much of my yelling was on this board. McShay was the only major media guy who agreed.

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Old 03-04-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Jones has everything physically you look for in a franchise QB, size, arm strength etc. but something is missing mentally. His pocket presence is mediocre and you see him panic when things don't go as desired. These are things that are very difficult to overcome through training, a QB is either mentally tough or he's not and Jones isn't, end of story.
He's sort of a poor man's Brandon Weeden.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Mental Toughness is a completely intangible quality that is extremely hard to measure based on simply watching some game tapes of a player. How can you accurately judge such an ephemeral quality because you saw a guy throw a football or fail to step up in the pocket when you thought he should have? It just isn't a reliable assessment.



'why is Russell Wilson, with all the physical tools in the world, getting so little love from pro scouts and GM's, even with all his great stats in this class of QB's?'

Height was the only problem with Wilson. And scouts and GMs were shown to be wrong about that prejudice against lack of height.

Similarly, "not winning the big game" and "lack of toughness" are the problems with Landry Jones. I believe that scouts and GMs will be proven wrong about these prejudices against completely non-quantifiable qualities this year too.
Well, if it comes down to judging QB's and who I think have a lot more knowledge and judgment, I'll rely on pro scouts and GM's opinions over yours, everyday of the week, especially when I can see for myself the same weaknesses they are mentioning. You might think they aren't that noticeable, but IMO, they standout by quite a wide margin in Jones' case.

If we were arguing about a ranking and I hated Jones and you loved him and there were definitely scouts and GM's who loved Jones, I would think my argument was ridiculous, since it was strictly based on my opinion with little support from those who are paid to judge, but in this case, it is you who have zero support from scouts and GM's so I think you need to ask yourself why, and maybe if you go back over Jones' film you can really learn from the experience and see why Jones is getting so little love. Forget the stats and look at the player under stress and learn from the experience.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Because the eye test puts the stats in perspective. There is a reason why Texas Tech QBs are not starters in the NFL. The eye test will tell you WHEN bad things happened and good things happened. The eye test will tell you when a guy was open and he missed him, or when he had a better option. The eye test will tell you that Landry sometimes appears to give up on plays in which he stops reading his progressions and fires off some junk.

As far as Gholston, he didn't pass my eye test no matter how much I yelled. And much of my yelling was on this board. McShay was the only major media guy who agreed.
Yea they are usually 6'0 tall and 190lbs with avg at best arms. Landry Jones is a big strong armed passer - I think he is a 3rd/4th round guy now but can be coached up and developed.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE FOR OR AGAINST A PLAYER... GROUP THINK IS A PROBLEM
Lewin Career Forcast is Correct in reguard to Landry Jones… I feel that scouts and gms and coaches can be victim to hype and leave logic and real performance behind.. This forcast has a good track record… and is a valuable tool.. The hype against Russel Wilson was as it turns out wrong and wilson should have been a 1st or 2nd Round pick..

Carreer stats total passing and rushing Yards tD’s passing and rushing

Gino Smith 11662 yards Td’s 98 attempts 1465 Ints 21 66% average comp. 78 sacks
Robert Griffen 12623 yards TD’s 111 attempts 1192 Int’s 17 66% average comp 79 sacks
Landry Jones 16646 yards TDs 123 attempts 2183 Ints 52 63% average comp 54 sacks
Andrew Luck 10387 yards 89 Tds attempts 1016 Ints 22 66% average comp 23 sacks

So yes half the attempts means half the ints.. but look at the results… I know Luck and RG111 are good but so is Landry.. But I think that a high sack ratio to low Interception ratio may seem like the ability to do well under pressure.. but with low attempts and higher completion ratio it can say….They didn't try to throw it away which would lower their completions and mean an attempt or int… they took the sacks meaning lost possessions to punts which could be the same as an INT….. How many of those 79 sacks resulted in punts…. on certain parts of the field an int as good as a punt..

Scouts are getting caught up in group think and hype against Landry… This forecast shouldn't be ignored and teams who want yards and production should ignore hype and draft Landry….
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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He's sort of a poor man's Brandon Weeden.
I don't think you are being too kind to Weedon. Jones panics in the pocket when pressured, he lacks any mental toughness, Weedon was just too old to be worth a 1st rounder and the Cleveland management team paniced itself after losing out in the RG111 trade.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you are being too kind to Weedon. Jones panics in the pocket when pressured, he lacks any mental toughness, Weedon was just too old to be worth a 1st rounder and the Cleveland management team paniced itself after losing out in the RG111 trade.
You are right. A homeless Weeden with a flask of Scotch in his tweed blazer and a pair of disgarded Wolverine work boots.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE FOR OR AGAINST A PLAYER... GROUP THINK IS A PROBLEM
Lewin Career Forcast is Correct in reguard to Landry Jones… I feel that scouts and gms and coaches can be victim to hype and leave logic and real performance behind.. This forcast has a good track record… and is a valuable tool.. The hype against Russel Wilson was as it turns out wrong and wilson should have been a 1st or 2nd Round pick..

Carreer stats total passing and rushing Yards tD’s passing and rushing

Gino Smith 11662 yards Td’s 98 attempts 1465 Ints 21 66% average comp. 78 sacks
Robert Griffen 12623 yards TD’s 111 attempts 1192 Int’s 17 66% average comp 79 sacks
Landry Jones 16646 yards TDs 123 attempts 2183 Ints 52 63% average comp 54 sacks
Andrew Luck 10387 yards 89 Tds attempts 1016 Ints 22 66% average comp 23 sacks

So yes half the attempts means half the ints.. but look at the results… I know Luck and RG111 are good but so is Landry.. But I think that a high sack ratio to low Interception ratio may seem like the ability to do well under pressure.. but with low attempts and higher completion ratio it can say….They didn't try to throw it away which would lower their completions and mean an attempt or int… they took the sacks meaning lost possessions to punts which could be the same as an INT….. How many of those 79 sacks resulted in punts…. on certain parts of the field an int as good as a punt..

Scouts are getting caught up in group think and hype against Landry… This forecast shouldn't be ignored and teams who want yards and production should ignore hype and draft Landry….
Wilson dropped because of his height, when every short QB but Brees failed over a decade, you cannot blame GM's and scouts for being wary of drafting one too high.

While there is the occassinal failures by scouts and GM's, the vast majority of who they draft are successful and more important, the reason why they draft players are sound in most cases especially when you look at successful GM's. The majority of draft failures come from GM's who have a very poor record of drafting successful products. It is not a group think overall but a group think by GM's with a poor track record for success.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Yea they are usually 6'0 tall and 190lbs with avg at best arms. Landry Jones is a big strong armed passer - I think he is a 3rd/4th round guy now but can be coached up and developed.
Correct, Jones has much better physical talent- which wasn't the point of my comment. The point I was making is that the OP has little to offer in his analysis of any prospect other than statistics. He did the same thing in the DE thread.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Wilson dropped because of his height, when every short QB but Brees failed over a decade, you cannot blame GM's and scouts for being wary of drafting one too high.

While there is the occassinal failures by scouts and GM's, the vast majority of who they draft are successful and more important, the reason why they draft players are sound in most cases especially when you look at successful GM's. The majority of draft failures come from GM's who have a very poor record of drafting successful products. It is not a group think overall but a group think by GM's with a poor track record for success.
Well, in the case of Vernon Gholsto, it absolutely was a case of group think. Completely. Apparently that year everyone's memory of Mike Mamula was erased.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Landry is not undervalued, except perhaps if you are talking about in direct comparison to some of the other QB who have been overvalued IMO, and that does not equate to a compliment. Anyone who has watched Landry and not simply pulled up his stats can tell you that he is flat out bad in pressure situations. He is never the difference in a positive way, regardless of the talent around him. Under pressure, his accuracy, his decision making and his pocket presence all idle down a notch or two. And he's shown that consistent trend throughout his career. I recall one game in which the announced summed it up nicely. Oklahoma was behind in the 4th quarter. The announcers challenged him to step up and make himself relevant in this defining situation. Of course he flopped. But the commentary let's you know that the book on Landry was out a long time ago. You asked, I answered.
Jones is Victim to the high Expectations of OU Fans.. They have had how many 10 win seasons in a Row.. To OU Fans its National Championship or Nothing Which means perfection 13-0 win every game.. So Jones sucked Cause he went 8-5 12-2 10-3 10-3 I watched all of his games and this pressure claim is just a hand full of plays that every Quarterback makes.. All QB's do worse with pressure.. Why good pass rushers is important. Is Geno Smith better cause he took 79 Sacks with just 1400 atemps and Landry 54 Sacks in 2183 attempts... Taking a sack not a good thing it results in huge lost yards and a punt that results in a turnover.. RG111 took 78 sacks in 1100 attempts.. Landry may have had a few mistakes but at least he didnt just "take the Sack"

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Old 03-04-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Well, in the case of Vernon Gholsto, it absolutely was a case of group think. Completely. Apparently that year everyone's memory of Mike Mamula was erased.
Hard to tell. Would everyone have taken him or were the far better talent appraisers, doubtful about him. We will never know because they never had a shot at him.

It always amazes me how well some team's draft while other teams never seem to get it right. Of course being a Detroit fan, I had to live through the Matt Millen years and he wasn't the only bad GM through that period.
Ditto today. there are bad GM's and there are solid GM's. I don't think the solid GM's ever really are group think types.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Jones is Victim to the high Expectations of OU Fans.. They have had how many 10 win seasons in a Row.. To OU Fans its National Championship or Nothing Which means perfection 13-0 win every game.. So Jones sucked Cause he went 8-5 12-2 10-3 10-3 I watched all of his games and this pressure claim is just a hand full of plays that every Quarterback makes.. All QB's do worse with pressure.. Why good pass rushers is important. Is Geno Smith better cause he took 79 Sacks with just 1400 atemps and Landry 54 Sacks in 2183 attempts... Taking a sack not a good thing it results in huge lost yards and a punt that results in a turnover.. RG111 took 78 sacks in 1100 attempts.. Landry may have had a few mistakes but at least he didnt just "take the Sack"
Scouts and GM's had no such expectations, they judge prospects on athletic ability, performance and intangibles and Jones came up lacking in intangibles namely pocket prensence when under pressure. There he failed and thus his ranking to go rounds 3-5. His interviews and combine performance changed nothing.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I must say, I just don't think Landry Jones on-field performance justifies him going in the first three rounds. When I watch Jones, he just doesn't have consistent accuracy, suffers from a substantial lack of pocket presence, doesn't throw on the move well, and makes too many poor decisions. His completion % is not that good when you consider how many screen passes he threw. Jones may have a big arm, but he has played for a while now and still seems to lack a great sense of timing and accuracy. Personally, I would take Colby Cameron or Matt Scott ahead of Jones when it comes to drafting spread QBs. Cameron is the better QB right now and Scott has more potential as a developmental prospect in my opinion.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Hard to tell. Would everyone have taken him or were the far better talent appraisers, doubtful about him. We will never know because they never had a shot at him.

It always amazes me how well some team's draft while other teams never seem to get it right. Of course being a Detroit fan, I had to live through the Matt Millen years and he wasn't the only bad GM through that period.
Ditto today. there are bad GM's and there are solid GM's. I don't think the solid GM's ever really are group think types.
No, not the case with Gholston. Mayock, Kiper, they were all over him. There was a complete love fest going on. The Jets were making solid picks at that time, so I don't think it was a case of bad GMing moreso than a groupthink love affair with this guy who looked like a miniature incredible Hulk. Many people had this body builder rated above the pure football player, Chris Long.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Scouts and GM's had no such expectations, they judge prospects on athletic ability, performance and intangibles and Jones came up lacking in intangibles namely pocket prensence when under pressure. There he failed and thus his ranking to go rounds 3-5. His interviews and combine performance changed nothing.
OU Fans started the mantra That Jones sucked and couldnt deal with pressure and the media picked it up and it stuck with Him... I have watched his games it is over literally a hand full of playsThe media has him ranked as a 3-4 guy... GM's I bet have him higher. Answer me this He threw 2183 times in 4 years almost as much as Luck and RG111 put together had 63% completion 16647 yards 123 td's and 52 int's with 54 sacks... DId he have no pressure?? Big 12 playing nationallly ranked teams ..... How could he do so well if he was so bad at pressure... RG111 only had around 1100 attempts in his college career and took 79 Sacks... No wonder he threw so few int's and has such a high completion percentage... (Sacks equals punts and turn overs Landry should have just taken the sacks but he didnt'
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
Jones is Victim to the high Expectations of OU Fans.. They have had how many 10 win seasons in a Row.. To OU Fans its National Championship or Nothing Which means perfection 13-0 win every game.. So Jones sucked Cause he went 8-5 12-2 10-3 10-3 I watched all of his games and this pressure claim is just a hand full of plays that every Quarterback makes.. All QB's do worse with pressure.. Why good pass rushers is important. Is Geno Smith better cause he took 79 Sacks with just 1400 atemps and Landry 54 Sacks in 2183 attempts... Taking a sack not a good thing it results in huge lost yards and a punt that results in a turnover.. RG111 took 78 sacks in 1100 attempts.. Landry may have had a few mistakes but at least he didnt just "take the Sack"
Your response is N/A. I am not a OK fan and I had no expectations. Also, Landry didn't go 8-5 or 12-2, the team did and the talent around him was very good. All QB's may do worse with pressure, that's not a revelation. But some do decidedly better than others. Mark Jones down for "other."

As far as his comparision to Smith, try 70% completions on the year.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
Attyla the Hawk
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He is not undervalued at all.

Simply, his decision making breaks down rapidly under duress. It's not just an eye test thing. You can palpably see this, as he attempts to process the rush and try to deliver the ball where it needs to go.

I don't know if it's mental toughness. I do think it's mental acuity. It appears that he recognizes where pressure is coming from well enough. But it doesn't appear that he makes that leap from knowing what's coming, to what it means in terms of checking down, or how to attack the pressure. He seems to lose his offense altogether and doesn't process where he needs to go with the ball quickly enough.

This is pretty obvious too. I mean even amateurs can see this multiple times in most games he plays, and certainly all good defenses he faces.

Physically, he's ideal. But that doesn't translate to on field success. Honestly, when I see him on tape, I see the Aaron Curry of QBs. He has all the measurables you'd want. But you don't see him performing well at all in NFL type situations.

Curry was the least aware player on the field any time he was on it. Jones doesn't have that awareness to process events in real time and act accordingly. Like Curry, he seems to be eternally unsure of what he's supposed to do if his read isn't patently obvious.

I don't think he trusts what he sees fully. He can read and hit guys that are NCAA open. But smaller windows give him pause. And he will often times just wait for the guy in case he gets more open later. He shows serious difficulty 'flipping the page' and getting on with the play.

I see a guy who is going to get swallowed up whole with the speed of the NFL game and the unreal shrinking of what passes as an open receiver at the pro level.

I can't say if he has mental toughness. He could be a gritty/tough guy for all I know. I don't see that. What I see is a guy whose decisiveness is easily compromised. There could be many factors for that.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
NMfootball85
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I must say, I just don't think Landry Jones on-field performance justifies him going in the first three rounds. When I watch Jones, he just doesn't have consistent accuracy, suffers from a substantial lack of pocket presence, doesn't throw on the move well, and makes too many poor decisions. His completion % is not that good when you consider how many screen passes he threw. Jones may have a big arm, but he has played for a while now and still seems to lack a great sense of timing and accuracy. Personally, I would take Colby Cameron or Matt Scott ahead of Jones when it comes to drafting spread QBs. Cameron is the better QB right now and Scott has more potential as a developmental prospect in my opinion.
The Completion percentage isn't as good because of screen plays.. That charge needs to be applied more so to Geno Smith who threw 33% of his passes were screens and Jones was only 20 Barkly had around 30% screens.. 20% of Jones passes were 5 yards and 20% were 10 yards... Throwing out of the gun a 10 yard pass travels 20 yards.. Sorry man but your opinion doesnt jive with the stats.. 2183 attempts 63% that is very consistent accuracy...
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Jones is Victim to the high Expectations of OU Fans.. They have had how many 10 win seasons in a Row.. To OU Fans its National Championship or Nothing Which means perfection 13-0 win every game.. So Jones sucked Cause he went 8-5 12-2 10-3 10-3 I watched all of his games and this pressure claim is just a hand full of plays that every Quarterback makes.. All QB's do worse with pressure.. Why good pass rushers is important. Is Geno Smith better cause he took 79 Sacks with just 1400 atemps and Landry 54 Sacks in 2183 attempts... Taking a sack not a good thing it results in huge lost yards and a punt that results in a turnover.. RG111 took 78 sacks in 1100 attempts.. Landry may have had a few mistakes but at least he didnt just "take the Sack"
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No, not the case with Gholston. Mayock, Kiper, they were all over him. There was a complete love fest going on. The Jets were making solid picks at that time, so I don't think it was a case of bad GMing moreso than a groupthink love affair with this guy who looked like a miniature incredible Hulk. Many people had this body builder rated above the pure football player, Chris Long.
See I think GM's and Scouts can fall prey to the group think in the sports media.. I hear on boards the same stuff about players that was repeated over and over in the media.. I think as far as QB's Barkly is way over hyped.. I heard mayock say Barkly didnt have a strong arm wasnt the most athletic but was still a first round pick.. Then Bill Polian said those are good qualites of a good back up.. lol Polian thinks Jones is the best QB in the Draft... Sea Hawks Prowbowl CB Sherman was a 5th round pick and said it was because of the media hyping other players...
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
NMfootball85
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Originally Posted by Attyla the Hawk View Post
He is not undervalued at all.

Simply, his decision making breaks down rapidly under duress. It's not just an eye test thing. You can palpably see this, as he attempts to process the rush and try to deliver the ball where it needs to go.

I don't know if it's mental toughness. I do think it's mental acuity. It appears that he recognizes where pressure is coming from well enough. But it doesn't appear that he makes that leap from knowing what's coming, to what it means in terms of checking down, or how to attack the pressure. He seems to lose his offense altogether and doesn't process where he needs to go with the ball quickly enough.

This is pretty obvious too. I mean even amateurs can see this multiple times in most games he plays, and certainly all good defenses he faces.

Physically, he's ideal. But that doesn't translate to on field success. Honestly, when I see him on tape, I see the Aaron Curry of QBs. He has all the measurables you'd want. But you don't see him performing well at all in NFL type situations.

Curry was the least aware player on the field any time he was on it. Jones doesn't have that awareness to process events in real time and act accordingly. Like Curry, he seems to be eternally unsure of what he's supposed to do if his read isn't patently obvious.

I don't think he trusts what he sees fully. He can read and hit guys that are NCAA open. But smaller windows give him pause. And he will often times just wait for the guy in case he gets more open later. He shows serious difficulty 'flipping the page' and getting on with the play.

I see a guy who is going to get swallowed up whole with the speed of the NFL game and the unreal shrinking of what passes as an open receiver at the pro level.

I can't say if he has mental toughness. He could be a gritty/tough guy for all I know. I don't see that. What I see is a guy whose decisiveness is easily compromised. There could be many factors for that.

Fact... All QB's do worse under duress.. Thats why JJ Watt helped the texans be so successfull.... Why isnt this same charge leavied against Glennon who had 17 int and a 58% completion Rate and took 36 sacks... You cant make this claim against Jones on a handfull of plays... Either he wasnt pressured at all or he handeled it just fine or he was pressured the same as everyone else and handled it just fine.. His stats tell a different story.. 2183 attempts thats almost as much as Luck and RG111 put together 63% completion 52 int's in 4 years and only 54 sacks... Either he does fine with pressure or wasnt pressured at all. I think taking the sack makes you look better statistically but doesnt help the team.. in 1100 attempts RG111 took 79 sacks.. if what your saying is true then there is no way Landry could have won 39 games and set all those records.. Yes he had a handfull of bad plays... Every qb does..
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Your response is N/A. I am not a OK fan and I had no expectations. Also, Landry didn't go 8-5 or 12-2, the team did and the talent around him was very good. All QB's may do worse with pressure, that's not a revelation. But some do decidedly better than others. Mark Jones down for "other."

As far as his comparision to Smith, try 70% completions on the year.
I meant that OU Fan expectations and opinions about Landry got picked up by the media and are way out of wack to his performance and reality. He had a handfull of bad plays in big games(all games are big) so he got that rep. I feel its not right fair and doesnt even match his statistics.. OU did pretty well with Landry considering they had a 50th ranked defense.. Landry threw the ball 700 more times than Geno smith did in his career.. yes 70% is good but Jones would be higher too if 33% of his passes were screens to Tavon Austin.. I looked it up landry had 2183 attempts Luck and RG111 had 2300 put together.. Luck had 23 int to 24 sacks about half of what Jones was but half the attempts.. You cant throw that much and have that much success without handling pressure or he had no pressure and a GM will emulate ou offense and draft him and he will still kick but...
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, having faced him twice. And watching numerous OU games over the past few seasons with him.

I truly think he is a system QB.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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I meant that OU Fan expectations and opinions about Landry got picked up by the media and are way out of wack to his performance and reality. He had a handfull of bad plays in big games(all games are big) so he got that rep. I feel its not right fair and doesnt even match his statistics.. OU did pretty well with Landry considering they had a 50th ranked defense.. Landry threw the ball 700 more times than Geno smith did in his career.. yes 70% is good but Jones would be higher too if 33% of his passes were screens to Tavon Austin.. I looked it up landry had 2183 attempts Luck and RG111 had 2300 put together.. Luck had 23 int to 24 sacks about half of what Jones was but half the attempts.. You cant throw that much and have that much success without handling pressure or he had no pressure and a GM will emulate ou offense and draft him and he will still kick but...
You fail to see the irony in your own post!! The QBs you cited as having similar bad stats are all easily BETTER than Jones! That's why you can't make a stats based argument.
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