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Old 03-06-2013, 12:37 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
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As usual, the team likely knows something that we fans don't or it's just a simple case of that they put a value on him that may not match his demands.

I like Goldson's highlights as much as anyone and would love to have him back next year but the way this team is building for sustained success, his asking price seems to be too high. We'll see how committed he is to the organization that drafted him in the 4th round and helped him develop, playing behind studs like Justin Smith and Patrick Willis. I don't think he is immediately replaceable with a rookie but he could be, proving that the scheme supersedes individual talents once again.

I really think that there's a chance that they draft safety solid depth and a starter to groom for 2014 and then bring in a savvy vet that is 'one more ring' hungry like Reed or Woodson to play FS next year, filling the potential hole.

Either way, I'm not seeing Spillman as our starting safety next season and I'd much rather that they lock up young studs (Iupati, Davis, Aldon, Boone and Kap) with available money before they would even slightly overpay Goldson.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
Its about allocation, not the 8 mil. You can't pay Goldson, Willis, Bowman, and Rogers. If we would have let Rogers walked, I don't believe Baalke would be so hesitant about giving Goldson the 8 mil. 8 mil is top 6 safety money. Goldson is a top 5 safety. If Michael Huff and Michael Griffin can get more than 8 mil, I don't see what's wrong with Goldson asking for 8 mil. I have no problem with what he's asking and I really don't think Baalke does either really. Its the fact that you can't pay everyone and paying Bowman and Rogers was utlimately cheaper than extended a top 5 safety. Both those contracts individually, were less in total money than extended Goldson at market value would be.
Between ditching Alex and Akers being cut on it's way they have the money to resign Goldson I just don't think they will at his price.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:52 AM    (permalink
dan77733
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Even though the reason Goldson hasn't been resigned is because he wants more than Baalke's price tag for him just like last time? And the Rodgers decision has nothing to do with this?
First, re-signing Rogers does have something to do with letting Goldson walk because if Baalke didnt re-sign Rogers, he would that money to use on Goldson. From what I have read and heard, Goldson wants $8m a season and if Rogers is worth this - (from rotoworld)

"3/13/2012: Signed a four-year, $29.3 million contract. The deal included a $5 million signing bonus. Another $2 million is available through incentives. An annual $100,000 workout bonus and $250,000 roster bonus is available throughout the life of the deal. 2013: $5.5 million, 2014: $6.25 million, 2015: $7.25 million, 2016: Free Agent"

Goldson is EASILY worth $8m a season especially since he's a few years younger and our best player in the secondary. Quite honestly, I would rank the secondary like this - Goldson, Culliver, Brown, Whitner and Rogers.

I'm sorry but for a GM who's supposed to know when to let players walk, he's letting the wrong guy walk and in favor of what? An old CB who declined just like I said he would and will decline even more in 2013 and get released in a year from now.

I like Baalke but I didnt like him re-signing Rogers at all especially now since it appears that its at the expense at losing Goldson. As for who we have at FS, Spillman? Sorry, he's not going to scare anyone and is a special teamer for a reason. McBath, Robinson? Good luck with that.

The only FS I was hoping for would have been Jairus Byrd but he was franchised and while Ed Reed is an awesome FS, he would just be a stopgap at best and cost more than Goldson plus he's older.

As much as I like Baalke and give him credit for making the 49ers an awesome team, you're supposed to know when to let guys walk and when not to. In the case of Rogers, he should have let him walk a year ago because like the saying goes, better to let a guy leave a year earlier than a year later.

Granted, you could say that with Goldson but the difference is that Goldson has played his best the last two seasons while Rogers played bad last season and had a fluke of a season in 2011.

I just dont get why Baalke is willing to take a chance on hoping a draft pick, a veteran or who we already have is going to be good at replacing Goldson. While the draft is deep at safety, there's no elite or must draft prospect. I liked Goldson even years ago when most here didnt and said that he would get better. With Fangio, he finally did and I just dont see why Baalke would let him walk for free but yet, brought Rogers back for four (or more likely two) more years.

You guys say this to me all the time -

This isnt Madden and you're right but the difference is that in Madden, I prefer to keep the younger core instead of old washed up veterans who arent worth the cap space they're eating up. And just so you know, I just started playing with the 49ers and have already re-signed Goldson, Walker and Jean-Francois to multi year contracts. Granted, they're not getting paid what they should be but im not the one who developed the game so cant blame me for that. Either way, while he wont be a 49er in relaity, at least Goldson is alive and well on my 49ers in M13. :)
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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Wouldnt be surprised if the Rams go after Goldson as they could definitely use a safety. Dont want to see Goldson leave and still cant believe that Baalke decided to spend money on re-signing Rogers a year ago as opposed to letting him walk and using that money towards keeping Goldson. Oh well.
Absolutely correct Dan. We overpaid a 31 year-old CB coming off the best game of his career rather than paying our 27 year-old (his age last year) stud FS. Now it is coming back to bite us square on the a$$.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Believe whatever you wanna believe Dan.


@Vafa-ya

The more I see of Kwann Short the more I like him. I think for my wish list of D-lineman early I am really set on either Jessie Williams or Short. I also really think Justin Hunter would be a great complement to Crabtree with his skill set. I think the part that is the most exciting is that after the Alex trade they would get either Short and Hunter or Williams and Hunter.

Also I really like Wheaten and i'm glad you posted that because I think Mannion improved from his freshmen year to sophmore year more than any player in the country. If he continues to improve he could be competing for a top QB spot in the draft he comes out in. Not saying that for the Niner purposes but just a guy that caught my eye watching Oregon State.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Another reason why I hated last year's draft so much. We filled absolutely no needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we spent another high pick on a WR this year after Jenkins was a no-show. On the bright side we have 3 good RB's...yippee....instead we should have drafted at least 1 DL or DB so we wouldn't be forced to fill so many holes this year.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Another reason why I hated last year's draft so much. We filled absolutely no needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we spent another high pick on a WR this year after Jenkins was a no-show. On the bright side we have 3 good RB's...yippee....instead we should have drafted at least 1 DL or DB so we wouldn't be forced to fill so many holes this year.
Why? Last years draft was all for depth with the entire starting lineup was already essentially set. Jenkins wasn't expected to contribute as a rookie. None of them were. Jenkins was taken because of his upside. James was taken because he was BPA, and the Niners are probably going to employ a full running back by committee when Gore hangs it up. Looney was insurance in case Boone didn't pan out. Fleming was also for OLB depth, and Robinson was for safety depth and special teams. It wasn't like they needed a rookie to come in and contribute right away.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Its about allocation, not the 8 mil. You can't pay Goldson, Willis, Bowman, and Rogers. If we would have let Rogers walked, I don't believe Baalke would be so hesitant about giving Goldson the 8 mil. 8 mil is top 6 safety money. Goldson is a top 5 safety. If Michael Huff and Michael Griffin can get more than 8 mil, I don't see what's wrong with Goldson asking for 8 mil. I have no problem with what he's asking and I really don't think Baalke does either really. Its the fact that you can't pay everyone and paying Bowman and Rogers was utlimately cheaper than extended a top 5 safety. Both those contracts individually, were less in total money than extended Goldson at market value would be.
Yes. It is what it is. Goldson is my favorite 49er, but I can see him trying to make the best for himself. This is probably the only chance he'll get at a huge payday. At the same time the 49ers have a lot of high profile players and they won't be able to keep everyone. Like you said it's just a numbers game. Sucks, but it's reality.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:03 AM    (permalink
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Believe whatever you wanna believe Dan.


@Vafa-ya

The more I see of Kwann Short the more I like him. I think for my wish list of D-lineman early I am really set on either Jessie Williams or Short. I also really think Justin Hunter would be a great complement to Crabtree with his skill set. I think the part that is the most exciting is that after the Alex trade they would get either Short and Hunter or Williams and Hunter.

Also I really like Wheaten and i'm glad you posted that because I think Mannion improved from his freshmen year to sophmore year more than any player in the country. If he continues to improve he could be competing for a top QB spot in the draft he comes out in. Not saying that for the Niner purposes but just a guy that caught my eye watching Oregon State.
I also love the Jessie Williams/Kwann Short draft selection @ 31. Here's a really well done (but very brief) evaluation of Short http://youtu.be/ji5LINpTBX0

If we don't re-sign Goldson I think we have to take a hard look at Johnathan Cyprien @ 34. I do love Justin Hunter though....
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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I also love the Jessie Williams/Kwann Short draft selection @ 31. Here's a really well done (but very brief) evaluation of Short http://youtu.be/ji5LINpTBX0

If we don't re-sign Goldson I think we have to take a hard look at Johnathan Cyprien @ 34. I do love Justin Hunter though....
I need to watch more film on Cyprien I've seen his stock is on the rise.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Why? Last years draft was all for depth with the entire starting lineup was already essentially set. Jenkins wasn't expected to contribute as a rookie. None of them were. Jenkins was taken because of his upside. James was taken because he was BPA, and the Niners are probably going to employ a full running back by committee when Gore hangs it up. Looney was insurance in case Boone didn't pan out. Fleming was also for OLB depth, and Robinson was for safety depth and special teams. It wasn't like they needed a rookie to come in and contribute right away.
Why? Because we had a starting 31 year-old CB, a 33 year-old Center, and a 32 year-old DE starting for us. We also had a franchise tagged safety, a 31 year-old NT entering his final year of his contract and our TE2 also entering into the final year of his contract (Also don't forget that Alex Boone was still unproven at the time and Cordy Glenn was still on the board @ #30 but I actually like Looney and Boone surprised the hell at of me so that turned out well).

We should have tried to fill at least ONE of these holes in last year's draft rather than a 3rd RB and an extremely raw WR...if we were hell bent on drafting a WR project then I would have preferred Stehen Hill.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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I need to watch more film on Cyprien I've seen his stock is on the rise.
There's always the option to trade up for Vaccaro but I hate the idea of giving up high picks.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbMEu96hcE

Here is Jesse Williams against A&M and LSU this year. He does a great job anchoring against double teams and love his motor.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qbMEu96hcE

Here is Jesse Williams against A&M and LSU this year. He does a great job anchoring against double teams and love his motor.
Stud......a little more versatile than Short maybe. Jesse can play all 3 positions in the 3 man front but I'm not sure short can play NT.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:29 AM    (permalink
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Why? Because we had a starting 31 year-old CB, a 33 year-old Center, and a 32 year-old DE starting for us. We also had a franchise tagged safety, a 31 year-old NT entering his final year of his contract and our TE2 also entering into the final year of his contract (Also don't forget that Alex Boone was still unproven at the time and Cordy Glenn was still on the board @ #30 but I actually like Looney and Boone surprised the hell at of me so that turned out well).

We should have tried to fill at least ONE of these holes in last year's draft rather than a 3rd RB and an extremely raw WR...if we were hell bent on drafting a WR project then I would have preferred Stehen Hill.
The defensive end one I will buy, but they believe the answer for center is already on the roster in Kilgore. They also were playing Looney at center some this year too. I know they really like Perrish Cox and they like Brock coming into the year. Maybe they see Cox being the nickel guy in the future with his upside.

As far as WR there was a lot to like about Hill with his size and skill set, but Jenkins has far better hands and also natural hands which was a concern with Hill. Jenkins also has deep speed and nice explosion. Hopefully he can get bigger and stronger this off-season and grasp the playbook. It was good to hear he and Kap are room mates and very close.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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Old 03-06-2013, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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Stud......a little more versatile than Short maybe. Jesse can play all 3 positions in the 3 man front but I'm not sure short can play NT.
That's what I thought too, but I thought short actually did a pretty solid job against double teams in the games I watched of him. Not as good as Williams at that, but better than I thought he would be.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:40 AM    (permalink
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We should have tried to fill at least ONE of these holes in last year's draft rather than a 3rd RB and an extremely raw WR...if we were hell bent on drafting a WR project then I would have preferred Stehen Hill.
Well our 3rd runningback came in handy when Kendall Hunter got hurt. I was glad we had him.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:56 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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I don't like Jessie Williams. I've watched plenty of his games/tape but he doesn't impress like Short, Hankins, Richardson, and others. And I don't like his build. Smaller lower body, heavy up top. Those guys usually have problems anchoring at the next level. I wouldn't be mad if he was drafted but I just don't see what everyone else sees, sort of like Elam.

I really like Cyprien but he's more of a SS. I think he's going to be a good one though. Hard to tell because of the comp he face but he was everwhere watching his tape. And hits hard too. I really hope Baalke moves up to get Vaccaro. He's the only real cover FS in this draft. Just watch him against West Virginia and what he did, in the slot, versus Tavon Austin. Not many CBs can hang with such a explosive guy like Austin, and in the slot no less, but he did as a FS. I usually hate Texas DBs but Vaccaro can ball. I think he had a bad Combine though. He looked much faster and fluid on film. Needs some work with bad angles run recognitjon but he's the only guy I feel like is a legitmate starting FS in this draft. Though I have a sleeper I like in Keelan Johnson from Arizona State but he probably won't even be drafted. I really like Aaron Hester of UCLA as a FS at the next level but he's more of a project.

I've always like Hunter. Local kid from nearby who I knew was going to be the next NFLer from this area. I really, really like the kid from Rutgers though, Harrison. He's huge(6'3, 230 lbs) and has some wheels. Has that build up speed though(you can tell by his slow 10 yard split) so teams might think he can't hack it at WR off the line and might want to turn him into a H-Back type but he reminds me of a bigger, stronger Josh Morgan. Wheaton is going to be a steal for somebody. Him and the kid from Lousiana Tech, Patton. Really like Corey Fuller as well. He has all the tools, just needs to be coached up a little.

@Shupp
What you have to realize regarding the draft is that Baalke has proven he stays true to his board. Last year, his board dictated the picks. Baalke has a m.o. He always goes with the biggest need with the first pick. Than he drafts off his board. Point blank, he goes where the talent takes him. You don't draft a DE just because you have a need for depth. You draft the best players left on the board, within reason. We needed to get more explosive on offense. The first two picks last year reflected that. We needed depth at a few places. The rest of draft reflected that. He got great value for Looney, who should have been drafted higher but his injury kept him from working out for teams last year this time. I liked Robinson before last year's draft. Fleming too. It was a solid draft. It didn't have the same impact as 2011's draft because they're weren't as many holes to fill. We found a starter and depth at WR in free agency so Jenkins was needed. And our defense was stacked so no defensive player was going to come in and take any snaps from anyone, barring injury. It complimented the 2011 draft very well IMO. Different drafts have different strengths. The DE class last year isn't nearly as stacked as it is this year. So he did the right thing, signed some guys he could develop through the UDFA route, and he did with Jerrod-Eddie and Masfilo(I still like TJE). And look to get better value out of this upcoming stacked class of DTs. That's what the good GMs do....go where the talent takes them. When you stray from that formula and draft based on needs, that's when u get into problems.

@Menardo
They really don't have the money to sign Goldson. Will they have the cap space? Yeah. But we already have one of the highest paid defenses in the league. It was either Bowman or Goldson if you look at it. Bowman was younger and willing to sign a little below what he could have gotten in the open market. So that's why he got his deal and Goldson didnt. They have to have allocate future cap space for guys on offense like CK, Iupati, and maybe Crabtree. Right now the defense takes up a majority of the cap. No way they were going to add another huge contract to it. That's why the Revis rumor is just stupid, media-driven hyperbole. Trading for Revis, even for just a year rental would mortage our cap future and leave us some tough decisions when it came time to extend both CK and Aldon.

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Old 03-06-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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I'll be paying attention to what happens with Kenny Phillips. He's one of the better deep safties in the league and with Goldson not coming back, I'd be interested in seeing if he would be a cheaper alternative. I don't see commanding the type of money Goldson would. And he would have to make the change from SS or FS but he has the range and ball skills to make it work IMO. His injury history is a concern though.

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Old 03-06-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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I'll be paying attention to what happens with Kenny Phillips. He's one of the better deep safties in the league and with Goldson not coming back, I'd be interested in seeing if he would be a cheaper alternative. I don't see commanding the type of money Goldson would. And he would have to make the change from SS or FS but he has the range and ball skills to make it work IMO. His injury history is a concern though.
I'm on board with getting Phillips if we lose Goldson. Really wanted him the year he came out. Love Goldson, though.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Having to let Goldson go isn't nice but you have to look beyond this year with a decision like this. I believe Rogers contract is pretty cheap to cut next year and his contract was pretty much a two year with option for 2 more which will free up money to resign a lot of the younger guys. We now have Willis and Bowman as the core for our defense which is great because they are so versatile and both truly great players. Goldson is great in his own right but not as versatile as the other two and is in my eyes more of a fan favourite because of his hard hitting.

As far as replacing him i like DJ Swearinger.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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I'll be paying attention to what happens with Kenny Phillips. He's one of the better deep safties in the league and with Goldson not coming back, I'd be interested in seeing if he would be a cheaper alternative. I don't see commanding the type of money Goldson would. And he would have to make the change from SS or FS but he has the range and ball skills to make it work IMO. His injury history is a concern though.
I wanted Phillips back in 2008 but instead we drafted Balmer. *pukes*

Anyway, I wouldnt mind Phillips replacing Goldson. Only negative is his injury history. Other than that, I would be happy with Baalke signing him to replace Goldson.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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Signing Phillips for 6.5-7mill/yr would actually piss me off. Spend the extra mill and bring Goldson back or draft cheap labor to replace him...If the latter is chosen we can always sign a 1 year deal with Charles Woodson or someone of the like to hold down the fort.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Signing Phillips for 6.5-7mill/yr would actually piss me off. Spend the extra mill and bring Goldson back or draft cheap labor to replace him...If the latter is chosen we can always sign a 1 year deal with Charles Woodson or someone of the like to hold down the fort.
He's talking about liking Phillips if he can be had for cheap.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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He's talking about liking Phillips if he can be had for cheap.
Yeah I guess if we could land him for 3-4 million that would be sweet but I think Phillips will get closer to 6-7 million.
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