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Old 02-23-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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What does it matter what a pulling guard runs? He's not going to be faster than the LB or S he's trying to block at the 2nd level anyway.

Don't underestimate Fluker's arm length. He gets beat quite a bit, but he can get his hands on a lot of players that other OTs can't. And he's strong enough that when he gets his hands on them, they don't get to the QB.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Maybe it's just me, but there's something about Fluker and Warmack IMO where I don't see them living up to their predraft hype in the pros.

I think Warmack will be a very good NFL guard but not scheme diverse one. For some reason I don't think he has the lateral quickness to get out on blocks in the pros, or pull effectively.

Running a 5.5 40 tells me he doesn't have great quickness. He's fluid, but he's not moving that fast..
I feel like the ability to pull out in space is becoming a really overrated attribute with the majority of teams running primarily zone. Not saying you don't want athletic The ability to move people off the ball is so much more important. I know he was returning from injury but we saw DeCastro get solidly outperformed by Zeitler. DeCastro was always great at pulling out in space but didn't really thrive and driving guys off the ball. Zeitler was more so the opposite but was able to be more of an impact player because of his ability to get movement at the point of attack. It's like having a pass rusher who is great at creating pressure on stunts and designed blitzes but is just alright in 1-on-1 situations off the edge. You can create situations for a guy to best use his and best attributes but at the end of the day the guy who can wins the most often and most decisively in man-on-man (pause) situations is the guy you want.

Warmack, and Fluker, but sticking with Warmack for now isn't 'light on his feet'. He has heavy (size 18) feet. He has a big, heavy, powerful lower body which is where power and anchor are generated from. He may not be the best guard you'll find at pulling out to the sideline on tosses (though he's proven to be very effective at pulling on power plays between the tackles) or making blocks 20 yards down field on a screen but that big, heavy base of his is what makes him so dominant everywhere else.

The exact same thing hold true with Fluker but being light on your feet is obviously more important outside. It's why I think he can be an all-pro inside but might be a little too up-and-down at tackle.

Not meaning to go off on you FUN, just something I've been noticing.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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I didn't take it that you were going off, TACKLE.;)
You went into greater depth on what I thought I saw from both prospects compared to what they offer a team as individual players.

I agree if an Offensive coordinator is asking either Fluker or Warmack to move laterally at the snap too often, that OC isn't taking advantage of both player's strengths.

I keep thinking of blocking in terms of ZBS, but you're right being able to anchor in pass pro and move DL off the ball on run downs is an invaluable skillset and Warmark appears to have this ability and then some.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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htp://youtu.be/6i4dlVyj4K0

Flukers FRESHMAN tape in 2010. You're all welcome. The film does not lie... The Kid is not a slouch on the field. But hey, what do I know. I'm just a Floridian who knows nothing about football.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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I keep seeing mock drafts that have him going in the first and the first part of their explanation usually mentions shoring up pass protection for the team.

Weird, considering that the weakest part of Fluker's game is pass pro. He had some conspicuous struggles with speed rushers in college. I'm not 100% sold on him as a tackle.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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i think with him dropping weight by quite a bit and getting in better shape he could become a good pass blocker. His ungodly long arms make up for his slow feet
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't know what it is, I cant put my finger on it but I just don't want this guy on my team where he's been mocked. I feel that the 1st round is just too high to draft a pure RT.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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hes more of a RT/Guard that will make DTs fake injuries just to get a breather
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 03-06-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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I don't know what it is, I cant put my finger on it but I just don't want this guy on my team where he's been mocked. I feel that the 1st round is just too high to draft a pure RT.
There were numerous RT's drafted in the top 10-15, and there probably always will be.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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Fluker just isn't as athletic as some other options, but he is a beast with a nasty streak. He's purely a RT, which is why he doesn't seem as attractive as other options. He's also going to be a team leader wherever he goes.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Fluker just isn't as athletic as some other options, but he is a beast with a nasty streak. He's purely a RT, which is why he doesn't seem as attractive as other options. He's also going to be a team leader wherever he goes.
Having a guy like Fluker on your OL is awesome. He might not be a dancing bear but I think he will be better in pass protection in the NFL then people are projecting. Just a bulldozer who plays pissed off and will be a guy who beats on people for 60 minutes, every team should want a guy like that.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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I don't think he's a "pure RT" either. Whoever drafts him should try him at RT and guard and keep him wherever he can be most successful. Let him use that power on the strongest defenders on the field and drive them off the line.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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If we don't re-sign Vollmer I would love for us to take a look at Fluker, even if we do bring Vollmer back for that matter. He doesn't fit the mold for what we typically look for on the OL but I think he could play guard or RT and we will have a hole in at least one of those spots come draft day. Cannon is still a developmental guy with upside, but I would love us adding Fluker. I would not complain if we took him in the first even though I am sure other Pats fans will disagree with me, I have just always been a fan of Fluker. Mankins is a nasty player as well but he has regressed.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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If we don't re-sign Vollmer I would love for us to take a look at Fluker, even if we do bring Vollmer back for that matter. He doesn't fit the mold for what we typically look for on the OL but I think he could play guard or RT and we will have a hole in at least one of those spots come draft day. Cannon is still a developmental guy with upside, but I would love us adding Fluker. I would not complain if we took him in the first even though I am sure other Pats fans will disagree with me, I have just always been a fan of Fluker. Mankins is a nasty player as well but he has regressed.
Would probably be a good fit. With how that offense likes to get the ball dumped off quickly, it'd mitigate any pass pro problems on his part while still getting all of the benefit of his run blocking.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Would probably be a good fit. With how that offense likes to get the ball dumped off quickly, it'd mitigate any pass pro problems on his part while still getting all of the benefit of his run blocking.
I don't agree with your assessment of the Pats offense. Sure, there are quick pass plays. But there are plenty of plays where Brady has a metric **** ton of clean pocket time to wait for a downfield route to develop.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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You always see our linemen pulling on screen plays so that could be a concern. Our linemen are asked to play out in space a lot so that could be a bit of an issue, his 40 time was not great but if you watch him on tape he doesn't look completely awful down field or outside on swing plays.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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I don't agree with your assessment of the Pats offense. Sure, there are quick pass plays. But there are plenty of plays where Brady has a metric **** ton of clean pocket time to wait for a downfield route to develop.
The Pats offense has the fastest average time from snap to pass in the league @ 2.49 seconds. I agree that when they do go downfield, he has a buttload of time, but for the most part, he's dumping it off quickly.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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The Pats offense has the fastest average time from snap to pass in the league @ 2.49 seconds. I agree that when they do go downfield, he has a buttload of time, but for the most part, he's dumping it off quickly.
I think part of that stat is their execution. They don't go downfield as much as they throw short and intermediate passes. Most offenses don't. But you wouldn't want to damage the deep passing game, it'll negatively impact the whole offense.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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There are a lot of plays where Brady sits back there for 10 seconds looking for someone to get open, but so much of our offense is built on those screens and quick passes. You will always see a few linemen being asked to go out and make a key block in space, and that is a big thing that we look for in our OL. Solder can do it, Vollmer can do it, Mankins isn't the player he used to be but he can still do it to an extent. Fluker is a mountain and he didn't run like Lane Johnson, but if you watch some of his tape he doesn't look incredibly lost when he was asked to go to the second level or get out in space. Was he asked to do it a ton? No, but I would still consider Fluker a good athlete for his size just based on how he looks on film. He will never be mistaken for a tight end but he looks comfortable and not completely unnatural when he is asked to do more than just down block.

Again, he won't be mistaken for Jonathan Cooper, but considering it is his widely considered his biggest weakness I wouldn't be overly concerned seeing him out in space once in a while. He would just be asked to do it quite a bit in our scheme so that could be a concern.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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i don't buy the "purely RT" talk. If Cordy Glenn can play LT then so can fluker. What these guys lack in movement skills they make up for in being gigantic. It's the Marcus McNeil model of LT.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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i don't buy the "purely RT" talk. If Cordy Glenn can play LT then so can fluker. What these guys lack in movement skills they make up for in being gigantic. It's the Marcus McNeil model of LT.
Fluker could never make it at left tackle. Glenn and McNeil may (may have) lacked movement skills, but when it comes to Fluker, his movement skills are almost non-existent.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Gordy Glenn has much better feet than Fluker has ever shown.
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i done stole dis sig
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:48 PM    (permalink
K Train
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glenn is a terrible comparison. a more angry phil loadholt with longer arms and probably more power is better comparison...hes a bit shorter than loadholt, and could realistically be a pro bowler at guard or RT
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Guys, don't you know Fluker is so unathletic that he can't play anywhere on the line and is worth nothing more than a mid round pick?
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
Punisher
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Move him to DE: he will know what the tackle is thinking.

Last edited by Punisher : 03-06-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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