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Old 03-06-2013, 06:50 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by raphael View Post
Moore finished top 5 in two of the four events he participated in at the Combine. Ziggy Ansah finished top 5 in one of six events he participated in. How does one guy come off as an athletic schlub and the other as a physical phenom?
Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL, when Moore ran in the 4.9's, it sent huge red flags across the GM planet.
Now, he did come up lame in his second try at the combine and maybe he can make a dramatic improvement at his Pro Day, but he had better run in at least the 4.7's if he wants to remain a 1st rounder.

As for Ansah, he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl, against the best seniors in the nation, and completely dominated them. Personally, I think Ansah is getting way overhyped but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't touch him before the 20th pick but that's just me.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL, when Moore ran in the 4.9's, it sent huge red flags across the GM planet.
Now, he did come up lame in his second try at the combine and maybe he can make a dramatic improvement at his Pro Day, but he had better run in at least the 4.7's if he wants to remain a 1st rounder.

As for Ansah, he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl, against the best seniors in the nation, and completely dominated them. Personally, I think Ansah is getting way overhyped but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't touch him before the 20th pick but that's just me.
Terrell Suggs 4.84, going once, going twice. SOLD!!
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian;3293631]Pass rushing DE's must run a 40 no less than the 4.7's to play effectively in the NFL...QUOTE]

Well, what's the gripe. Damontre ran "no less than the 4.7s". Matter of fact he ran way more than the 4.7s.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Terrell Suggs 4.84, going once, going twice. SOLD!!
Suggs did run a 4.84 at his Combine but was timed at Arizona St. in 4.65. Try again.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Suggs did run a 4.84 at his Combine but was timed at Arizona St. in 4.65. Try again.
Who's to say Moore (or Werner/Montgomery) won't improve their 40s dramatically at their Pro Days?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Who's to say Moore (or Werner/Montgomery) won't improve their 40s dramatically at their Pro Days?
I already said this in my first post, he definitely came up limping when he tried his 2nd 40 at the combine and if it's healed, he probably can run faster but his first 40 in the 4.9's is pretty slow for a NFL DE who will be drafted because they want a pass rusher.
I really believe he will run a decent 40 at his pro day but if he doesn't I doubt he sees round 1.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.
12 lifts obviously isn't very impressive but I think when you add in his 40 time, it just sent shivers up GM's backs about him. He is going to need a fast Pro Day to recover some of his shine.
Mingo and Jordan had sensational 40's and we will have to wait on Jones who ranking is up in the air right now mostly because of injury concerns.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.
He isn't going to be an ILB with 12 lifts but a 3-4 OLB is a strong possibility but he'll have to run a heck of a lot faster if he wants to start in the NFL. 4.9's is what you want from a DT not a LBer or a DE.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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He isn't going to be an ILB with 12 lifts but a 3-4 OLB is a strong possibility but he'll have to run a heck of a lot faster if he wants to start in the NFL. 4.9's is what you want from a DT not a LBer or a DE.
Well according to someone here who watched his tape he got most of his sacks and tackles running the play down from behind. Maybe he hypnotized his opponents so they stopped and waited for him to catch up.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Well according to someone here who watched his tape he got most of his sacks and tackles running the play down from behind. Maybe he hypnotized his opponents so they stopped and waited for him to catch up.
Or just maybe, he was playing against college players and not pros. I'm not saying he won't improve his 40 time, all I'm saying is that he had better do it if he wants to remain a 1st rounder. That's a reason why they hold Pro Days. I said he was limping in his 2nd 40 at the combine, maybe the pulled muscle slowed him down even in his 1st run. All I'm saying is he needs a far better 40 at his Pro Day. His 4.9--- certainly shocked me.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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I just dont see why people are caught up on his 40 time. If you liked what you saw from him during the year, the combine shouldnt change that.

I personally never saw him as a top 10 pick but def a top 25 player. Not as explosive as Werner but hardworking and crafty on the field. Seems like the type of guy the Steelers would pick up and he'd go to 5 pro bowls..
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Besides, Terrell Suggs ran a slow-as-molasses 40 in his day as well. Having a great 40 isn't a prerequisite to being a great pass rusher, especially if you do alot of work with your strength/leverage.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Moore won the Second Effort award that the Texas coaches give out each week TWICE AS OFTEN as any other player on the team last year. What is the point of spending two months practicing takeoffs on a track. Or pushing 225 pounds off your chest for four or five hours a day so you can push 225 pounds off your chest better? The actual football benefits are pretty much ZILCH. In terms of future benefits on the field a player would be better off watching film the whole time. Or just relaxing and allowing his body to recuperate and heal. When the Combine events become weekly and held in front of 60 or 70 thousand people in stadiums with trophies and money on the line for performance, then you can start pimping the guys who spend all their time training for the events. Or you can just wait a few years for the Olympic track and field events.
I think youre missing the point. YOU CAN'T significantly improve your reps of 225 in a few months... it takes years. And from the evidence, Moore has been a stranger in the weightroom. The benefits of being strong in the chest and triceps are enormous, especially for players that block or take on blocks on a constant basis. We can all point to videotape and say one guy CAN play and the other guy CAN'T but when it is all said and done it comes down to physical ability and if a guy dominates in college against guys that will be doing something other than playing football for a living, that tells very little about how well he will do against a guy that plays football as his job... and prepares for his job like there is no tomorrow (which means dedication in the gym, watching film, in practice, etc). Moore's absolute lack of ability to push the bar up more than 12X is extremely alarming. He does not work hard, he has not worked hard, and anybody that says anything the opposite has never been in or around a weightroom or football field.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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I've heard it said that NFL evaluators value the Combine workouts at no more than 5% of a player's grade in the draft. Most of the ones I've heard speak on the matter say that the medical testing and interview process is by far the most valuable aspect of the event in their eyes. It's more of a draftnik fascination than a scouting one, I think.
Do you know why? Because only about 5% of the time guys run a lot better or worse than they are supposed to.

Everybody knew what Ansah and Hunt and Mingo and others were going to run. Everybody knew that Moore wasn't going to break 4.70... but barely breaking 5.0 is the 5% you're talking about here.

Anybody else remember the name Jason Chorak? Great college stats, horrible physical testing... didn't make it in the NFL.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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The combine for many teams is a way to gauge a player's work ethic.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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For a 6'5, 250# LB/DE to put up less than 15 reps screams that a player didn't train at all for this combine test once the season was over.

.
Now you're giving him too much credit. Two months of solid work on the bench MIGHT increase reps by 2-5. Signficant gains on the bench take place over years, not months. What Moore has demonstrated is that he has had an allergy to the gym for years, not months. It's not uncommon for a player that didn't have the greatest work ethic in college to completely blow it off in the NFL... which means he won't be getting better physically but ALSO means when he gets hurt and has to do rehab, he won't do it.

To me, Moore is a guy I wouldn't touch until round 2... if I were a 3-4 team. If I were a 4-3 team he would be a guy I wouldn't touch until round 4. Small slow DEs with poor work ethics just don't excite me.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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This is my post on Moore taken from another thread just a little while ago

Anyone that saw Moore run saw that he likely hadn't worked on his get off. He was slow at the start and ran an unofficial 4.87 the first time. The 2nd time he clearly pulled up prior to finishing as he pulled a hammy.

Could he have came better prepared to the combine? Yes, I believe he could have. Does that effect what I see on tape? No, it does not.
And what you discovered with Allen and Suggs are exceptions, not rules. It is well documented that Allen and Suggs didn't perform well... still, Suggs has/had far more strength than Moore, Allen was more explosive with a way better frame (6'6 265 and also ran 4.72 official). It is also true that Suggs was faster than Moore.

While both players (Suggs and Allen) were either weak or slow... neither was the dreadful combination of both.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Moore gets killed for doing 12 lifts on the bench, but Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan both dodged the event, and still were said to have "great workouts". Jarvis Jones dodged everything and I don't hear his "stock dropping". Twelve is twelve more than zero, which is what those other dopes did.
And if Moore was smart he would've dodged it too claiming tendonitis. Instead his stupidity and lack of work ethic were out there for all to see. Bad move on his part.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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And if Moore was smart he would've dodged it too claiming tendonitis. Instead his stupidity and lack of work ethic were out there for all to see. Bad move on his part.
So you substitute lack of work ethic with bull####### people. Scouts can see through that.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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So you substitute lack of work ethic with bull####### people. Scouts can see through that.
Basically it seems they're panning Moore because he can't be bothered to try to fool evaluators into taking him higher in the draft than he might deserve to go. They also ignore the fact that he was top five in two of the four events he did, which was one more top five performance than Ansah managed. Two more than Jarvis Jones, and most of the other DE participants.

There are tens of thousands of college athletes who are gym rats. There is only one college athlete who was the best defensive player in the SEC last season.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Basically it seems they're panning Moore because he can't be bothered to try to fool evaluators into taking him higher in the draft than he might deserve to go. They also ignore the fact that he was top five in two of the four events he did, which was one more top five performance than Ansah managed. Two more than Jarvis Jones, and most of the other DE participants.

There are tens of thousands of college athletes who are gym rats. There is only one college athlete who was the best defensive player in the SEC last season.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:49 PM    (permalink
SickwithIt1010
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Moore will be more of an OLB in the pros. Or even an ILB. He is a very good athlete with or without a top 40 time. Just a matter of getting him in the best situation for his skills.
Bahahaha what?
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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His poor combine just made it so the Jets can get him at 9. I like it. Go Damonster!
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