Is Landry Jones Undervalued? - Page 5

NMfootball85 · 03-07-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Yeah, the knock is unfounded. And by the way, it's just my knock, correct?

Second in the redzone, but his coach replaced him inside the 10. Clutch stats don't tell you which teams he did what against either. He's not a big time QB, end of story. If he was, given his physical skills, he'd be a top ten pick. He is no where close.

The Knock is unfounded and based on a handful of plays.. People forget that Landry threw the ball More times than any one giving him more opportunities to be pressured and to make mistakes.. if he was as bad as people say there is no way he could have succeeded..

Landry Threw the ball:
718 Times more than Geno Smith
1485 more times than Ej Manual
621 times more than Barkly
939 times more than Nessib
1261 times more than Brey
1345 times more than Wilson
1166 more times than Glennon
511 more times than Dysert

With the volume of passes the number of plays that be messed up on is average for the number of passes thrown but gives the impression of a problem.... There was no way the complets 63% of that many throws..

SickwithIt1010 · 03-07-2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

2010 Broyles had 1622 yards recieving Jones Threw for 4700 yards...
2011 Broyles had 1157 yards recieving Jones Threw for 4400 yards..
2012 Kenny Stills 957 yards Jones threw for 4200 yards
Do the math thats a whole lot of passing yards to other receivers your charge is completely wrong.. Jones threw it 2183 times Geno threw it 1460 if he couldnt go through is reads no way he completes 63%.. only 20 percent were screens... Geno had 33% screens....

He is a 1 read QB in a horrid defensive conference. He is not an NFL QB, plain and simple and if you can really convince yourself otherwise you are delusional.

NMfootball85 · 03-07-2013, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

He is a 1 read QB in a horrid defensive conference. He is not an NFL QB, plain and simple and if you can really convince yourself otherwise you are delusional.

The conference isnt horrible defensively it's just really good offensively (Texas A and M is a good example).. Its the same conference as RG111 and Geno Smith.. Landry played the same competition as Smith won more games more yards more TD"S Landry had 718 more attempts than Smith.. What your saying is impossible based on the stats..

Menardo75 · 03-07-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

The conference isnt horrible defensively it's just really good offensively (Texas A and M is a good example).. Its the same conference as RG111 and Geno Smith.. Landry played the same competition as Smith won more games more yards more TD"S Landry had 718 more attempts than Smith.. What your saying is impossible based on the stats..

Have you actually watched his game film? Yes other guys get passes but only if the play is designed to go to them. Obviously not every single passing play is designed to go to the number one target so other guys will get the ball.

Stats? Sweet Chase Holbrook had stats, BJ Symons had stats, that doesn't mean very much when evaluating what translates to the next level.

NMfootball85 · 03-07-2013, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

Have you actually watched his game film? Yes other guys get passes but only if the play is designed to go to them. Obviously not every single passing play is designed to go to the number one target so other guys will get the ball.

Stats? Sweet Chase Holbrook had stats, BJ Symons had stats, that doesn't mean very much when evaluating what translates to the next level.

Yes I have watched his game film and with 2183 passes Im sure there is some where he missed his reads... George Whitfield who says he is a first round draft pick called him the master distributor... you dont complete 63% 2183 passing on the first read... sorry Chase was smaller but deserved a shot as good as he did..

Black Bolt · 03-07-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

The Knock is unfounded and based on a handful of plays.. People forget that Landry threw the ball More times than any one giving him more opportunities to be pressured and to make mistakes.. if he was as bad as people say there is no way he could have succeeded..

Landry Threw the ball:
718 Times more than Geno Smith
1485 more times than Ej Manual
621 times more than Barkly
939 times more than Nessib
1261 times more than Brey
1345 times more than Wilson
1166 more times than Glennon
511 more times than Dysert

With the volume of passes the number of plays that be messed up on is average for the number of passes thrown but gives the impression of a problem.... There was no way the complets 63% of that many throws..

Correct, it is based on a handful of plays, often times the most important ones in the most important situations. And what in the world does the volume of passes have to do with anything?

I'll ask you again, what is this guy NOT a first round pick in your mind? You act like he is a 2013 Joe Montana.

NMfootball85 · 03-07-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Correct, it is based on a handful of plays, often times the most important ones in the most important situations. And what in the world does the volume of passes have to do with anything?

I'll ask you again, what is this guy NOT a first round pick in your mind? You act like he is a 2013 Joe Montana.

Volume of passes.. it means there is more chances to mess up and be pressured and to make mistakes.. His attempt number adds more weight to his completion percentage of 63% any one can complete 80% passes if they throw 10-50 passes but the 80% is more significant if they throw it 1000-2000.. It means that his 52 int's is the sames as some one who throws it half as much and has 26 ints... Scientific studies that have more patients are given more weight..

Jones definitely deserves to be a first rounder.. We all know there is no such thing as perfect.. He is a worker and will get better and better but to rank him at 8th or 10th is ridiculous and just negative hype... He played tough competition but is 3rd all time NCAA passing yards list.. First ever to throw over 3000 yds and 26 touchdowns in four seasons.. all time big twelve passing leader.. Yeah Jones Grew up in NM so I would like to see him Succeed but just some sanity and fairness would be good..

Menardo75 · 03-07-2013, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

Yes I have watched his game film and with 2183 passes Im sure there is some where he missed his reads... George Whitfield who says he is a first round draft pick called him the master distributor... you dont complete 63% 2183 passing on the first read... sorry Chase was smaller but deserved a shot as good as he did..

You're missing the point we are trying to make. We are saying he consistently panics going through his progressions within the play. Yeah he might on occasion get it to the checkdown if his number one target isn't open. He does not however consistently show the ability to calmly make plays going through his progressions. He panics after his first read more often then he becomes a "master distributor."

Black Bolt · 03-07-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

Volume of passes.. it means there is more chances to mess up and be pressured and to make mistakes.. His attempt number adds more weight to his completion percentage of 63% any one can complete 80% passes if they throw 10-50 passes but the 80% is more significant if they throw it 1000-2000.. It means that his 52 int's is the sames as some one who throws it half as much and has 26 ints... Scientific studies that have more patients are given more weight..

Jones definitely deserves to be a first rounder.. We all know there is no such thing as perfect.. He is a worker and will get better and better but to rank him at 8th or 10th is ridiculous and just negative hype... He played tough competition but is 3rd all time NCAA passing yards list.. First ever to throw over 3000 yds and 26 touchdowns in four seasons.. all time big twelve passing leader.. Yeah Jones Grew up in NM so I would like to see him Succeed but just some sanity and fairness would be good..

Once again, it's the TIMING of his bad plays, not the actually number. Do you have it now?

NMfootball85 · 03-07-2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Once again, it's the TIMING of his bad plays, not the actually number. Do you have it now?

AT OU where its National Chamionship or bust every game is big and there is No good time to screw up.. He isnt a failure for not winning the big one perfect is hard in the big twelve its a deep conference.. 39 wins 4 bowl games 3 wins two conference titles and a BCS win.. He had plenty of big games good plays and wins.. When he kicked Florida States butt.. lol jk He had some bad plays at bad times but no more than any one else.. The pressure thing,, over blown he ranked 1st at 3rd down efficiency 68% look it up at bleacher report at every critical time pressure stat he ranked top 4..

SolidGold · 03-07-2013, 11:36 PM

NMFootball...black bolt is a manuel homer.Manuel blew it in some games I watched like the NC St and UF games but he will pull **** out of his ass to defend him.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

NMFootball...black bolt is a manuel homer.Manuel blew it in some games I watched like the NC St and UF games but he will pull **** out of his ass to defend him.

I like manuel he has potential.. but he took 60 sacks in 700 pass attempts.. That is a lot.. 1 sack per 11 attempts thats ridiculous for such a mobile QB... Jones 54 sacks in 2183 attempts.. Jones is a Local NM Kid, so I am kind of a homer too. I teased him about Landry kicking Manuel's but 2011.. My point is that every QB has bad plays and bad games.. It's hard to go undefeated in College and close to impossible in the pros.. Landry is far from perfect but his flaws are way over blown.. if they were so bad then he wouldnt have done so well. Is Black Bolt a Chargers fan? if he is he may be disappointed... the chargers GM is Polian pupil and polian likes Jones and I could see them taking Jones to push Rivers at 43.. Jones will go in the 2nd round..

Caulibflower · 03-08-2013, 12:55 AM

vs Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl. Last collegiate football game.

1st QTR - Looks steady and composed early. Throws a pass away instead of forcing it. Is displaying nice accuracy and touch so far. Has had all the time he needs to throw. A&M is getting no pressure on him. Kenny Stills is looking good, too. Jones getting rid of the ball quickly.

2nd QTR - Receiver drops a TD on third down. Then Jones throws a pretty ugly pick. You can see the corner dropping, Landry Jones is looking at him, and throws it anyways. And then he needles a laser beam between two defenders for a first down the next time he's on the field. The pick doesn't seem to be affecting his confidence. He's throwing well, and a receiver drops another touchdown on a beautiful sideline throw. And then he throws a TD to another tightly recovered receiver after being flushed from the pocket. That was on third down with a minute left in the first, and it looked like the receiver he threw it to was maybe his third read. He showed good composure and threw a very accurate ball off-balance.

Sooners get the ball to begin the second half, it's 14-13 A&M.

3rd QTR - The scoreboard is indicating that the Sooners defense has become a sieve. More pressure on Jones, but he's not playing badly, although the Sooners are failing to keep pace. By 3:37 in 3rd QTR the score is 34-13 A&M. Jones didn't play poorly as an individual, but the game being played between the A&M offense vs. OU defense is entirely different than OU offense vs. A&M defense.

4th QTR - He's had a number of balls batted down. He's made plenty of plays on third down, but he hasn't been as effective under pressure. OU's still hasn't got going again on offense, and a blowout is played til the whistle.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 02:25 AM

Not sure what your point was.. every Qb does worse under pressure.. When the ou offense bogged down was against defenses like Notre Dame and Kansas state.. A lot of it was the running game bogging down and lots of third and longs.. The Running games sucked in the second half.. The game was closer than the score indicated.. OU had a hard time running the ball in the red Zone or other wise.. first half jones Drove them in to scoring position many times but had to settle for couple of field goals and a score and a missed field Goal... Blake bell got bogged down.. The OU defense sucked bad this year and landry's production was solely responsible for the 10 win's.. pluse he threw it for more times than any QB by far giving more opportunity for mistakes and pressure...

Black Bolt · 03-08-2013, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

NMFootball...black bolt is a manuel homer.Manuel blew it in some games I watched like the NC St and UF games but he will pull **** out of his ass to defend him.

No one is talking about Manuel here. Get out of the thread and keep my name out of your mouth.

Black Bolt · 03-08-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

AT OU where its National Chamionship or bust every game is big and there is No good time to screw up.. He isnt a failure for not winning the big one perfect is hard in the big twelve its a deep conference.. 39 wins 4 bowl games 3 wins two conference titles and a BCS win.. He had plenty of big games good plays and wins.. When he kicked Florida States butt.. lol jk He had some bad plays at bad times but no more than any one else.. The pressure thing,, over blown he ranked 1st at 3rd down efficiency 68% look it up at bleacher report at every critical time pressure stat he ranked top 4..

I could care less about OU's expectations, yet you continue to make this irrelevant point. And by they way, if it's championship or bust, then why is Bob Stoopid still the HC?

And once again, if he is what you claim he is, spotless all over, then why is he not considered even a 2nd round prospect much less a top five guy?

jth1331 · 03-08-2013, 07:46 AM

To me Landry Jones has some great tools, he has a good arm, can make some tight throws at times, does shoe the ability to make good decisions.
However, as well, he has happy feet, terrible pocket presence at times and pressure can rattle him. Both traits were evident vs. Kansas State this past year. He looked calm, and performing well, and then all of a sudden phantom pressure causes him to try to escape the pocket, running right into a defender who jars the ball loose and KState picks it up for a touchdown.
I really think a team should draft him with the idea you're grooming him for a year or two at minimum, work on his reads, his pocket presence, coach him up.
I used to think he was a 1st round pick, but now, no way. Maybe take a 2nd round pick on him, but really a 3rd round pick. Worst case IMO, you have yourself a decent backup QB for awhile with best case you turn his weaknesses around and have a pretty good QB.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

No one is talking about Manuel here. Get out of the thread and keep my name out of your mouth.

No worries... I like Manuel because Iam a local Jones Fan I remember the underarmor High School All American Game and Skills contest.. Manuel as ranked #1 Jones #3 and Glennon #4.. I wish all the video of that was youtube there is one of Glennon and one of Jones in the contest..

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

I could care less about OU's expectations, yet you continue to make this irrelevant point. And by they way, if it's championship or bust, then why is Bob Stoopid still the HC?

And once again, if he is what you claim he is, spotless all over, then why is he not considered even a 2nd round prospect much less a top five guy?

The media has picked up on OU attitudes about Jones.. OU may be stupid to say Jones sucks cause he didnt win it all but, not stupid enough to get rid of one of the most successful coaches in FB.. The majoriy opinion is what yours is, but there are a few signs out there that Jones is going to surprise people.. I heard Kiper just said he could be a 2nd.. Mayock has Jones as a top 5 guy. Gil Brandt has him at 4. Prediction Machine has him at 3.. The Lewin Career forecast 2013has him ranked #1 200 points higher than smith.. Brandts stat system that accounts for pressure has Jones at 3. I saw a Scouts Inc. top 100 on Espn insider from 3/3/13 has him at 39 going to the Cards.. He QB Guru George Whitfield has said he can be a first round pick, not Manuel who he also coaches.. Greg Cosell who just said Barkly is a 4th rounder said Jones has the arm talent to be a starter.. So we will see.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jth1331

To me Landry Jones has some great tools, he has a good arm, can make some tight throws at times, does shoe the ability to make good decisions.
However, as well, he has happy feet, terrible pocket presence at times and pressure can rattle him. Both traits were evident vs. Kansas State this past year. He looked calm, and performing well, and then all of a sudden phantom pressure causes him to try to escape the pocket, running right into a defender who jars the ball loose and KState picks it up for a touchdown.
I really think a team should draft him with the idea you're grooming him for a year or two at minimum, work on his reads, his pocket presence, coach him up.
I used to think he was a 1st round pick, but now, no way. Maybe take a 2nd round pick on him, but really a 3rd round pick. Worst case IMO, you have yourself a decent backup QB for awhile with best case you turn his weaknesses around and have a pretty good QB.

In this draft he will be second.. He deserves a first.. When you throw the ball
700 times more than Smith and 1400 times More than Ej Manuel you have more of a statistical chance of getting pressure and making mistakes or having things go wrong.. The k State fumble was a blind side strip because of a missed block.. That loss was on Black Bell fumble on a first and goal. The claims you make were such a small portion of his total plays to be no more different than any QB. Luck threw it 619 times for the colts with 18 int's and a 54% completion.. 4200 yards.. He won games and had a good year..

FUNBUNCHER · 03-08-2013, 10:09 AM

More attempts also means more chances for a QB to make game changing plays.

No QB did less with his volume of pass attempts than Landry did, which is part of the reason why he's not considered a top pro prospect.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

More attempts also means more chances for a QB to make game changing plays.

No QB did less with his volume of pass attempts than Landry did, which is part of the reason why he's not considered a top pro prospect.

IT is true that Jones never went 13-0 and won the national championship. Not every one can win it all... But He threw 2183 times at 63% for 16647 yards and 123 TD's.. thats 4 4000 yard 30 TD seasons average thats (only top 10 QB's in NFL throw over 4000 yds) with 39 wins (7-3,12-2, 10-3,10-3) two Conference Championships, (4 bowl games 3 wins) one BCS bowl Game win.. Beat Stanford and Harbaugh his red shirt freshman year with a 400 yard 3 td game.. How could he do much better than that...

His 63% completion says that he is better than Smith who only threw 1465 66% or Manuel at 66% ave who threw 700 times.. Pharma Studies for FDA approval are give more weight and only need one study if they have 10000 patients .. its the same with Attempts.. So glennon who had a 58% comp and 17 int's his senior year and only 1000 attempts in college is better?? Give me a break. or Brey and wilson with loosing seasons.... please Landry is a first/2nd round pick worst case..

Black Bolt · 03-08-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMfootball85

No worries... I like Manuel because Iam a local Jones Fan I remember the underarmor High School All American Game and Skills contest.. Manuel as ranked #1 Jones #3 and Glennon #4.. I wish all the video of that was youtube there is one of Glennon and one of Jones in the contest..

That's what kills me. A couple people here have been saying "Who is E.J. Manuel" as if he was an unknown.

Black Bolt · 03-08-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jth1331

To me Landry Jones has some great tools, he has a good arm, can make some tight throws at times, does shoe the ability to make good decisions.
However, as well, he has happy feet, terrible pocket presence at times and pressure can rattle him. Both traits were evident vs. Kansas State this past year. He looked calm, and performing well, and then all of a sudden phantom pressure causes him to try to escape the pocket, running right into a defender who jars the ball loose and KState picks it up for a touchdown.
I really think a team should draft him with the idea you're grooming him for a year or two at minimum, work on his reads, his pocket presence, coach him up.
I used to think he was a 1st round pick, but now, no way. Maybe take a 2nd round pick on him, but really a 3rd round pick. Worst case IMO, you have yourself a decent backup QB for awhile with best case you turn his weaknesses around and have a pretty good QB.

I agree with everything. He has that NFL arm that can zip balls to the outside on a rope. But he is panicky and unsettled and easily succumbs to phanton pressure. He needs to sit behind a vet.

NMfootball85 · 03-08-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

I agree with everything. He has that NFL arm that can zip balls to the outside on a rope. But he is panicky and unsettled and easily succumbs to phanton pressure. He needs to sit behind a vet.

Would you rather have a QB who is good at avoiding pressure or at dealing with it.. i say Landry deals with it fine.. Every Qb gets unsettled make bad decisions. but your generality that its that way with him all the time isnt true. He is very good at avoiding pressure which is more important in the NFL.. his average snap to release was 2.44 seconds last year.. Which is why landry was only sacked once per forty throws. Ou line is good but not that good.

Tell me why Manuel who took 59 Sacks in two years and 698 throws as a starter is better at "the pressure" than Landry who took 54 Sacks and 2183... Mr athlete who is mobile.. Fl state is a good running team always has a good line.. thats one sack every 12 throws.. maybe Manuel just took the sack while mr unsettled Landry Jones threw it away or an occasional Int.. if Jones took a sack every 11 attempts he would have had 200 sacks..
I think he can start in a spread type offense with some help.. Really Good QB's have sucked based on the team and situation...