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Old 03-08-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
SickwithIt1010
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
Not sure what your point was.. every Qb does worse under pressure.. When the ou offense bogged down was against defenses like Notre Dame and Kansas state.. A lot of it was the running game bogging down and lots of third and longs.. The Running games sucked in the second half.. The game was closer than the score indicated.. OU had a hard time running the ball in the red Zone or other wise.. first half jones Drove them in to scoring position many times but had to settle for couple of field goals and a score and a missed field Goal... Blake bell got bogged down.. The OU defense sucked bad this year and landry's production was solely responsible for the 10 win's.. pluse he threw it for more times than any QB by far giving more opportunity for mistakes and pressure...
Please....continue sucking his dick harder than a brazzers school girl.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm afraid your in for a big shock on draft day NMfootball85, there is zero chance Jones gets taken in round 1 and is probably a longshot to go round 2 as well.
You can state all the stats you want but it won't change anything because GM's and scouts are seeing the same thing we are, that he panics and just loses it when pressured. Sure, he is fine as long as nobody gets near him but when they do, as they will in the NFL, he just doesn't have the mental toughness to handle it and all your stats cannot change that.

Suggesting that everyone in reality, has him higher than they are listing him, is just wishful thinking on your part.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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The problem is that you can't measure "mental toughness". How do you know how mentally tough he is? You can get a feel for it, especially if you know a person closely, but I'm sure you've never even met the guy, let alone talked to him extensively. All you know of his "toughness" you have to deduce from watching a few games.

Whereas stats like completion %, Y/A, wins, etc are all easily measurable and can give us a good picture of a prospect (although not fault-free obviously).
Pocket presence, decision making under pressure, accuracy when forced to move and re-set....these are all measurable traits. Most people are just too lazy to chart them. It takes a long time.

I haven't charted those things for Landry either, but I can tell you anecdotally that he's not good at those things.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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For reasons already stated by others, I am not very impressed with Landry Jones coming into the pros. My main concern with him, is that I dont see a lot of development in his game on a year to year basis.
Throughout the last 3 years I have watched 16-20 of his games at OU, and for the first year and a half I was actually pretty high on him. The size and armstrength is enticing, and I was basically thinking ”When this guy puts it all together, he will be a very high draftpick..”
Seasons came and went, and I still dont think he is anywhere near close to ”putting it all together”.
He basically still makes the exact same mistakes he did last year, and the year before that.

As already stated by other posters:

- His pocket awareness is terrible under pressure. He does not possess a great feel for where the rush is coming from, and when it is coming. At other times he will sense pressure when there is none. Its not about how many sacks he takes or interceptions he throws, but when and how he does it.
- His technique + footwork and thereby his accuracy gets very sloppy under pressure.
- Even when he has time, it doesnt seem as if he trust his eyes looking down the field.
- Often he double clutches the ball, and second guesses himself in situation when the he need to put the ball into a tight window fast, thereby missing opportunities to make profitable throws.
- Many of the interceptions I´ve seen him throw are complete meltdowns on his part. Not the Dbs making a great play on the ball, or the reciever running a bad route, but simply Landry making a throw that looks as if he just closed his eyes and chucked the ball.

These weaknesses are some of the hardest to correct. They are mental errors that occur under extreme pressure, in situations where the body reacts instictively within split seconds. Even with years of practice and quality coaching there is no guarantee that a player will be able to improve these traits in gametime situations.
Furthermore these issues will only be magnified in the pros. The pockets are smaller, more dirty and collapsing much faster. The rush comes faster, and from angles a college QB have never seen before. The windows in coverage are that much tighter, they close so much faster, and defensive backs will bait you in ways you never thought possible.

If you look at some of the quarterback prospects that have had specific question marks about pocket awareness and decision making under pressure coming into the league, it is clear that these guys was not able to improve in these areas throughout their careers.
Guys like Blaine Gabbert, Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, John Beck, Andrew Walther and JP Losman where never able to develop their questionable pocket awareness, technique or decision making under pressure. Thats the main reason why none of them have panned out.

Long story short, football is a grown mans game. When I see Landry Jones play, I dont see a player who possesses the confidence, mental toughness and fearlessness needed to become a starting QB in the NFL. Im not saying it can´t happen, but I wouldn´t risk anything higher than a 4th round pick on it.

NM, reading through your posts, I was wondering, what do you consider to be Landry Jones greatest weaknesses? You say you consider him to be a first round talent, and thats fine, but every single prospect in every single draft has flaws in their game. In my 10 years as a draftnik I have never had a bigger crush on a prospect at the QB position than the one I had for Andrew Luck last year. Still when I go back and look through my final scouting report on Luck, I still had a small handfull of questionmarks about his game. Nobody is perfect.
Throughout this thread you have made excuses for Landry several times. (OU fans hating on him, the media downgrading him, his running game sucked, his defence sucked, etc..) but not once have I seen you say anything like ”He must improve X, Y and Z in the pros....”
I get it, you are very high on him, but even then you can´t possibly think that he is the second coming of Joe Montana, Jesus Christ and Robocop all rolled into one...?
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, and I think his college stats are highly inflated.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NMfootball85 View Post
In this draft he will be second.. He deserves a first.. When you throw the ball
700 times more than Smith and 1400 times More than Ej Manuel you have more of a statistical chance of getting pressure and making mistakes or having things go wrong.. The k State fumble was a blind side strip because of a missed block.. That loss was on Black Bell fumble on a first and goal. The claims you make were such a small portion of his total plays to be no more different than any QB. Luck threw it 619 times for the colts with 18 int's and a 54% completion.. 4200 yards.. He won games and had a good year..
First of all, NOBODY is saying many good things about Manuel. In fact, I don't get why people are even considering him as a draftable prospect but whatever. I'm that far down on him. If someone can claim Landry is at best a 4th round pick, Manuel is at best a 7th.

Second, the Colts got extremely lucky last year. They had a total point differential in the negative, that is terrible for a team that won 10+ games.

Now, again, Landry has good solid tools, but he needs work. I think he has a chance at getting in the 2nd round, but pretty much a solid 3rd round pick I think. The upside is there to me, but just not worth the risk of such a high pick to most teams.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Please....continue sucking his dick harder than a brazzers school girl.
Your Just a dumb ass hack who spends the rest of his time jerking it to a brazzers site when he isnt on here making dumb ass statements.. You dont route for local players.. We have never had any one this good come out of new mexico since Brian Urlacher... I am shocked at the compete BS in the media and lack of any reason.. Why play college ball you can have ****** stats and loose games like wilson and brey and get drafted..
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm afraid your in for a big shock on draft day NMfootball85, there is zero chance Jones gets taken in round 1 and is probably a longshot to go round 2 as well.
You can state all the stats you want but it won't change anything because GM's and scouts are seeing the same thing we are, that he panics and just loses it when pressured. Sure, he is fine as long as nobody gets near him but when they do, as they will in the NFL, he just doesn't have the mental toughness to handle it and all your stats cannot change that.

Suggesting that everyone in reality, has him higher than they are listing him, is just wishful thinking on your part.
There is a disconnect from sports media and blogs and GM's and Scouts who hide there real opinions before the draft... I sited people who are more on the inside than a lot of bloggers and media people like bleacher report or SB nation

It takes plenty of mental toughness to perform at his high level throwing 550 times a year for 4 years in a row.. When you do throw that many times your chances go up for mistakes.. There was an article about what happened to Safford about his mistakes and turn overs.. He threw it over 700 times.. Same with Luck last year 619 times 54% and 18 ints.. Manuel threw 698 times...
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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NM, reading through your posts, I was wondering, what do you consider to be Landry Jones greatest weaknesses? You say you consider him to be a first round talent, and thats fine, but every single prospect in every single draft has flaws in their game. In my 10 years as a draftnik I have never had a bigger crush on a prospect at the QB position than the one I had for Andrew Luck last year. Still when I go back and look through my final scouting report on Luck, I still had a small handfull of questionmarks about his game. Nobody is perfect.
Throughout this thread you have made excuses for Landry several times. (OU fans hating on him, the media downgrading him, his running game sucked, his defence sucked, etc..) but not once have I seen you say anything like ”He must improve X, Y and Z in the pros....”
I get it, you are very high on him, but even then you can´t possibly think that he is the second coming of Joe Montana, Jesus Christ and Robocop all rolled into one...? [/QUO

Jones is from NM so yes I am a homer fan but I think that he is not getting a fair shot with the media and in the rankings. Jones is a hard worker and has been Working with Whitfield and will keep getting better... He is good at avoiding pressure and doesn't get enough credit for that.. His average snap to release is 2.44 this year. He can get better with his foot work and mobility.. The nebulous pressure claim and mental toughness claim and is some thing that affects every QB going into the NFL.. I dont need to make excuses for him.. Most people watched a few games and saw a few mistakes.. How many times could he have been pressed and screwed up if he completed 63% of his 2183 passes.. You have to look at number of attempts when judging QB's Jones threw it 1400 times More than Manuel... Luck only threw it like 1000 times in college... This year Luck threw 619 times at 54% and 18 ints.... High number of throws means a million times more likely to get pressured and make mistakes...
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Oh yeah, and I think his college stats are highly inflated.
How are his stats inflated??? ESPN doesnt inflate stats for players.. He threw 20% screens 20% 5 yards and 20% 10 or more He threw it out of the Gun meaning his 5 yard passes went 15 yards and his 10 yard passes went about 20 because he threw it 10 yards behind the line but they only counted the gain from the line of scrimage.. His yards per attempt is typical averaged 12 ints and 12 sacks a year.. He threw it quick and often..

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Old 03-09-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Your Just a dumb ass hack who spends the rest of his time jerking it to a brazzers site when he isnt on here making dumb ass statements.. You dont route for local players.. We have never had any one this good come out of new mexico since Brian Urlacher... I am shocked at the compete BS in the media and lack of any reason.. Why play college ball you can have ****** stats and loose games like wilson and brey and get drafted..
He plays in an offense full of bubble screens, he plays in a conference full of teams that refuse to play defense, he locks in on primary targets, doesn't have good pocket presence, and just flat out isn't as good as you are making him out to be. Dude we understand, you have grown fond of this guy, but you are trying way too hard with this. He is Blaine Gabbert all over again, and the scouts aren't going to make that mistake a second time....plain and ******* simple.

And yes I do jerk off....but not to brazzers, that **** gives you viruses.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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He plays in an offense full of bubble screens, he plays in a conference full of teams that refuse to play defense, he locks in on primary targets, doesn't have good pocket presence, and just flat out isn't as good as you are making him out to be. Dude we understand, you have grown fond of this guy, but you are trying way too hard with this. He is Blaine Gabbert all over again, and the scouts aren't going to make that mistake a second time....plain and ******* simple.

And yes I do jerk off....but not to brazzers, that **** gives you viruses.
Geno Smith played in the same type of offense in the same conference (as well as in the big least) yet receives none of that criticism...Just saying...and malwarebytes works wonders...tehe
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Pocket presence, decision making under pressure, accuracy when forced to move and re-set....these are all measurable traits. Most people are just too lazy to chart them. It takes a long time.

I haven't charted those things for Landry either, but I can tell you anecdotally that he's not good at those things.
I'd be more than happy to do that if people would get me the game film for the QBs in this class, but I don't feel it's justified to use a few games.

I also wanted to chart throws made (screens, 1-5 yards passes, 5-15, 15+, right, left, center, in pocket, out of pocket, under center, shotgun, play action, etc).

I would be tempted to get NFL Game Rewind and do it for NFL QBs this season. I feel like a lot of information could be gathered by getting better statistics into the hands of people who want them.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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NM, reading through your posts, I was wondering, what do you consider to be Landry Jones greatest weaknesses? You say you consider him to be a first round talent, and thats fine, but every single prospect in every single draft has flaws in their game. In my 10 years as a draftnik I have never had a bigger crush on a prospect at the QB position than the one I had for Andrew Luck last year. Still when I go back and look through my final scouting report on Luck, I still had a small handfull of questionmarks about his game. Nobody is perfect.
Throughout this thread you have made excuses for Landry several times. (OU fans hating on him, the media downgrading him, his running game sucked, his defence sucked, etc..) but not once have I seen you say anything like ”He must improve X, Y and Z in the pros....”
I get it, you are very high on him, but even then you can´t possibly think that he is the second coming of Joe Montana, Jesus Christ and Robocop all rolled into one...? [/QUO



Jones is from NM so yes I am a homer fan but I think that he is not getting a fair shot with the media and in the rankings. Jones is a hard worker and has been Working with Whitfield and will keep getting better... He is good at avoiding pressure and doesn't get enough credit for that.. His average snap to release is 2.44 this year. He can get better with his foot work and mobility.. The nebulous pressure claim and mental toughness claim and is some thing that affects every QB going into the NFL.. I dont need to make excuses for him.. Most people watched a few games and saw a few mistakes.. How many times could he have been pressed and screwed up if he completed 63% of his 2183 passes.. You have to look at number of attempts when judging QB's Jones threw it 1400 times More than Manuel... Luck only threw it like 1000 times in college... This year Luck threw 619 times at 54% and 18 ints.... High number of throws means a million times more likely to get pressured and make mistakes...
So that's it. Footwork and mobility? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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First two rounds are out of the question imo, he has the skills on paper but will be a 2-3 year project at best in an ideal situation with a good offensive line. With coaching I think he can become more consistent with his mechanics (even under pressure) but you can never teach courage. That is the problem with Blaine Gabbert and might be the same with Landry. As an NFL QB you have to be able to keep your moxy and pat the ball as routes develop without getting happy feet or launching a ball into coverage.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Geno Smith played in the same type of offense in the same conference (as well as in the big least) yet receives none of that criticism...Just saying...and malwarebytes works wonders...tehe
I've never talked up Geno Smith either, still riding the hype from his video game performance against the worst defense known to man.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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So that's it. Footwork and mobility? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
This whole draft class is better than people have said.. All QB's need improvement in all areas going from College to the pros every one in this class Manuel included... Landry is no different has spend lots of free time this off-season working on his weaknesses with George Winfield.. You and others arent totally wrong about his weakness.. You are wrong that they are so bad that Landry should be ranked 10th and a 5th rounder.. Winfeild has trained Scott and Manuel Luck Newton the best.. He has not said that any of the others are a first round just that Landry is.. IF Landry isn't a 1st Rounder based on college Career because of his few weaknesses then no QB's should be either..
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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This whole draft class is better than people have said.. All QB's need improvement in all areas going from College to the pros every one in this class Manuel included... Landry is no different has spend lots of free time this off-season working on his weaknesses with George Winfield.. You and others arent totally wrong about his weakness.. You are wrong that they are so bad that Landry should be ranked 10th and a 5th rounder.. Winfeild has trained Scott and Manuel Luck Newton the best.. He has not said that any of the others are a first round just that Landry is.. IF Landry isn't a 1st Rounder based on college Career because of his few weaknesses then no QB's should be either..

You'll see.
When the game is tight and Landry has to deal with heavy pressure upfront, I think he's going to shrink, just the way he did in college.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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He plays in an offense full of bubble screens, he plays in a conference full of teams that refuse to play defense, he locks in on primary targets, doesn't have good pocket presence, and just flat out isn't as good as you are making him out to be. Dude we understand, you have grown fond of this guy, but you are trying way too hard with this. He is Blaine Gabbert all over again, and the scouts aren't going to make that mistake a second time....plain and ******* simple.

And yes I do jerk off....but not to brazzers, that **** gives you viruses.
There were some stats that I saw that had Geno Smith Run 33% Screens and Matt Barklly at 30% and Jones at 20%.. Jones as 4 years of success and a solid consistent track record.. only the top 10 NFL QB throw for over 4000 yards in 2012... Jones did it three years in a row. He avoids pressure with a 2.44 second snap to release average.. He will be good but the others are better than people think as well.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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There were some stats that I saw that had Geno Smith Run 33% Screens and Matt Barklly at 30% and Jones at 20%.. Jones as 4 years of success and a solid consistent track record.. only the top 10 NFL QB throw for over 4000 yards in 2012... Jones did it three years in a row. He avoids pressure with a 2.44 second snap to release average.. He will be good but the others are better than people think as well.
He won't be good, though. He will never be an NFL starter, bubble screens don't work in the NFL.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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He won't be good, though. He will never be an NFL starter, bubble screens don't work in the NFL.
tell that to the Patriots
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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You'll see.
When the game is tight and Landry has to deal with heavy pressure upfront, I think he's going to shrink, just the way he did in college.
Landry Jones in College is the only one who came any where near to throwing it as many times as you do in the pros.. He Threw it 2183 times in all those passes how much pressure did he face.. He had to have been pressured a lot.. If it was so bad that he cant do well then he would not have completed 63% average.. 66% last year.. Russell Wilson threw less than 60% his Junior year when it threw it 550 times Senior year 300 throws and 72%.. Whats important is what he does with the ball when not pressured..
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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He won't be good, though. He will never be an NFL starter, bubble screens don't work in the NFL.
Tell that to Donovan McNabb and Brian Westbrook... West Brook was the number one receiver on the team...
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Landry Jones in College is the only one who came any where near to throwing it as many times as you do in the pros.. He Threw it 2183 times in all those passes how much pressure did he face.. He had to have been pressured a lot.. If it was so bad that he cant do well then he would not have completed 63% average.. 66% last year.. Russell Wilson threw less than 60% his Junior year when it threw it 550 times Senior year 300 throws and 72%.. Whats important is what he does with the ball when not pressured..
So, if he's being pressured, doesn't that mean someone is open? Come on dude, be logical. He threw it a lot, which also has it's positives such as inflated numbers and more opportunities to make big plays.

You are saying the same things over and over as if you are going to convince someone to change their mind. If you have changed someone's mind, you did it several pages ago. You are now force feeding everyone when the original question you posed is whether or not he is undervalued. The people have answered your question and it's time you moved on.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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So, if he's being pressured, doesn't that mean someone is open? Come on dude, be logical. He threw it a lot, which also has it's positives such as inflated numbers and more opportunities to make big plays.

You are saying the same things over and over as if you are going to convince someone to change their mind. If you have changed someone's mind, you did it several pages ago. You are now force feeding everyone when the original question you posed is whether or not he is undervalued. The people have answered your question and it's time you moved on.
It wasn't my Question not my thread but I Agree with Achten.. Answer me this: If George Whitfield coaches both EJ Manuel Matt Scott and Landry Jones then why is it that he only Said that Jones was absolutely a first round pick not Manuel and Scott.. I think a better Question is EJ overrated at 2.. You still havent answered how Manuel had 59 sacks in 700 attempts he is supposed to be "mobile" Just taking a sack doesnt make him better at pressure.
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