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Old 03-15-2013, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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No one is trading up to #1 for Dion Jordan. The only team stupid enough to take him with the #1 pick in the draft is the Chiefs.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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No one is trading up to #1 for Dion Jordan. The only team stupid enough to take him with the #1 pick in the draft is the Chiefs.
Well maybe that's what the stupids there think. Should've taken Geno over Alex Smith and Chase Daniels. ...and I didn't even think Geno should've been the pick! I feel bad for you Chiefs fans.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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I doubt it. I know people have compared Star to Ngata but that is not true:

1. Star measured in at a smaller 6'2'' size...not ideal for a 5Tech

2. Star projects more to NT then end....chiefs just drafted Poe (though they could move him).

3. Star is not a pas rusher. Generally 1st overall picks go QBs, guys who protect QBs, or guys who sack Qbs.

4. unresolved heart issues. His camp initially said low EF was due to dehydration, but we have not heard anything since. no reports of repeat echo or diagnostic CT, etc.

in anycase, a normal body can maintain homeostasis. dehydrated and thus have decreased extracellular fluid? no problem, body will push intracellular fluid to extracellular, kidneys will increase re-absorption of fluid, veins will vasoconstrict to send more blood back to the heart (veinous system is the storage for extra capacity), heart rate can increase.

Basically your body will do what it needs to so that it can pump enough blood out (i.e. the importance of ejection fraction). A guy who has a low EF at rest is a concern....specially for an athlete.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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No one is trading up to #1 for Dion Jordan. The only team stupid enough to take him with the #1 pick in the draft is the Chiefs.
You underestimate the stupidity of the Raiders.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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You underestimate the stupidity of the Raiders.
You underestimate the stupidity of your statement being that Al Davis is dead.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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I doubt it. I know people have compared Star to Ngata but that is not true:

1. Star measured in at a smaller 6'2'' size...not ideal for a 5Tech

2. Star projects more to NT then end....chiefs just drafted Poe (though they could move him).

3. Star is not a pas rusher. Generally 1st overall picks go QBs, guys who protect QBs, or guys who sack Qbs.

4. unresolved heart issues. His camp initially said low EF was due to dehydration, but we have not heard anything since. no reports of repeat echo or diagnostic CT, etc.

in anycase, a normal body can maintain homeostasis. dehydrated and thus have decreased extracellular fluid? no problem, body will push intracellular fluid to extracellular, kidneys will increase re-absorption of fluid, veins will vasoconstrict to send more blood back to the heart (veinous system is the storage for extra capacity), heart rate can increase.

Basically your body will do what it needs to so that it can pump enough blood out (i.e. the importance of ejection fraction). A guy who has a low EF at rest is a concern....specially for an athlete.
I disagree with a few of those points.

1. While it is true that 3-4 DEs are usually a little taller 1-4 in taller arm length can easily remedy the lack of height.

2. He can play both and do so very well.

3. While he might not have those quicktwitch moves he can bull rush with the best of them.

4. of course if the heart issue isn't cleared he isn't going in the 1st round.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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I disagree with a few of those points.

1. While it is true that 3-4 DEs are usually a little taller 1-4 in taller arm length can easily remedy the lack of height.

2. He can play both and do so very well.

3. While he might not have those quicktwitch moves he can bull rush with the best of them.

4. of course if the heart issue isn't cleared he isn't going in the 1st round.
One analyst said he was THE quickest defensive lineman off the ball in the draft.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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One analyst said he was THE quickest defensive lineman off the ball in the draft.
I'm not sure if you are adding to my point or if you are trying to detract from the idea that he doesn't have those crazy pass rush moves. But fast off the ball has nothing to do with with pass rush moves.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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1. While it is true that 3-4 DEs are usually a little taller 1-4 in taller arm length can easily remedy the lack of height.
Star has 33 5/8'' arms. nothing special. He is ideally suited inside, not at end in any defense.

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One analyst said he was THE quickest defensive lineman off the ball in the draft.
heard that about Glen Dorsey too when he came out. I would like to see some objective assesment of "power" such as vertical/long jump, and quickness such as 3-cone.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if you are adding to my point or if you are trying to detract from the idea that he doesn't have those crazy pass rush moves. But fast off the ball has nothing to do with with pass rush moves.
Well, I think you lost me more that I lost you! Pass rush moves?? No, I am saying he can disrupt, mainly through bull rush.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Star has 33 5/8'' arms. nothing special. He is ideally suited inside, not at end in any defense.



heard that about Glen Dorsey too when he came out. I would like to see some objective assesment of "power" such as vertical/long jump, and quickness such as 3-cone.
Film will show him pushing lineman straight back into the backfield like a blocking sled. And I don't remember hearing anything about an elite first step from Dorsey, which I did hear about Gerald McCoy.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Film will show him pushing lineman straight back into the backfield like a blocking sled.
I've seen enough clips of him. Even in his "highlight" vids there are plenty of instances where he is neutralized.

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And I don't remember hearing anything about an elite first step from Dorsey, which I did hear about Gerald McCoy.
NFL.com: Compares To: WARREN SAPP-Oakland...While both have made a nice living off their explosive initial step...

fftoolbox: He's explosive off the ball, which helped him consistently collapse the pocket... He has the speed to shoot gaps and strength to fight through double teams

nfldraftcountdown: Can penetrate and wreak havoc in the backfield.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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We've already seen the Chiefs make moves that scratch our heads... so arguing about how good or not a player is... that's besides the point. They'll do what they want to do regardless of what anyone else thinks.

So despite his flaws, I think that Star is a very strong possibility. Reid LOVES DTs in Round 1.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Well, I think you lost me more that I lost you! Pass rush moves?? No, I am saying he can disrupt, mainly through bull rush.
ok we agree I did lose you more than you lost me.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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I've seen enough clips of him. Even in his "highlight" vids there are plenty of instances where he is neutralized.



NFL.com: Compares To: WARREN SAPP-Oakland...While both have made a nice living off their explosive initial step...

fftoolbox: He's explosive off the ball, which helped him consistently collapse the pocket... He has the speed to shoot gaps and strength to fight through double teams

nfldraftcountdown: Can penetrate and wreak havoc in the backfield.
All I can tell you is that none of those descriptions say that he is the fastest lineman off the ball and that Dorsey never destroys individual blockers in the manner than Star has. Dorsey is playing out of position in the NFL, he should be in a 4-3 and allow to penetrate. Star and Dorsey are different players altogether so there is little to compare IMO.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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All I can tell you is that none of those descriptions say that he is the fastest lineman off the ball
you are moving the goalposts. earlier you said, "don't remember hearing anything about an elite first step from Dorsey."

I think you will be hard pressed to find a scouting report that doesnt say that he is very quick. He was regularly compared to Sapp who was well known for being a quick 3-tech.

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and that Dorsey never destroys individual blockers in the manner than Star has.
Dorsey was pretty much unblockable 1 on 1 in the SEC (i.e. the most competitive division in NCAA div I).

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Dorsey is playing out of position in the NFL, he should be in a 4-3 and allow to penetrate. Star and Dorsey are different players altogether so there is little to compare IMO.
I am not comparing them. You are the one under the impression that Star is BOTH a penetrator (like Sharif floyd) and a powerful 2-gaper. I agree that Dorsey would likely have been better suited in a 4-3. I also think that Star would be better suited as a NT in a 3-4 or a NG in a 4-3.

If the chiefs draft him, than they should expect similar production as a pass rusher as Dorsey and TJackson. They are guys that will do very well agains the run, but limited against the pass.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Hate to bring back an old meme but I can't help it.

1. Trade Albert to the Cardinals
2. Draft Luke Joeckel
3. ???
4. Profit
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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I'll go to my grave saying Dorsey's draft stock was largely a product of groupthink.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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why couldnt AZ just draft Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson at #7 overall?

heck, they could still address the position in FA...there are still some good players out there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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why couldnt AZ just draft Eric Fisher or Lane Johnson at #7 overall?

heck, they could still address the position in FA...there are still some good players out there.
Joeckel, Fisher and Johnson could all be gone by the time they pick, very easily.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Wouldn't that be something if KC drafted Eddie Lacy with the #1 overall pick?
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Wouldn't that be something if KC drafted Eddie Lacy with the #1 overall pick?
It sure would be!
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:07 AM    (permalink
TonyGfortheTD
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I think Reid is gonna take Star. They might've showed up at Oregon only to portray the interest in Jordan, hoping that some team who wants him will trade up to get him. But Reid wants to get him some Lotulelei.
You got the right position, but wrong player.

I think the Chiefs slide down and look for something more local.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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you are moving the goalposts. earlier you said, "don't remember hearing anything about an elite first step from Dorsey."

I think you will be hard pressed to find a scouting report that doesnt say that he is very quick. He was regularly compared to Sapp who was well known for being a quick 3-tech.



Dorsey was pretty much unblockable 1 on 1 in the SEC (i.e. the most competitive division in NCAA div I).



I am not comparing them. You are the one under the impression that Star is BOTH a penetrator (like Sharif floyd) and a powerful 2-gaper. I agree that Dorsey would likely have been better suited in a 4-3. I also think that Star would be better suited as a NT in a 3-4 or a NG in a 4-3.

If the chiefs draft him, than they should expect similar production as a pass rusher as Dorsey and TJackson. They are guys that will do very well agains the run, but limited against the pass.
No, I am not under the impression that he is a penetrator "like Floyd." I specifically said he can disrupt with this bull rush. I didn't say he exploits gaps, which is what Floyd does.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Wouldn't that be something if KC drafted Eddie Lacy with the #1 overall pick?
LMAO... I'd approve of that.
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