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Old 03-18-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
Cooper and Warmack are very different players and not all teams will have them as close together as the media does. Cooper's superior athleticism and pass pro give him the edge.
I don't claim to be a Cowboys expert, but I think Warmack would match what Dallas likes in their interior linemen more than Cooper.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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This is ********. Eagles trade back 4 spots in the 1st and our second for a third??? WTF??????? Are you insane or is this a mistake... BTW Eagles aren't drafting a THIRD RB in round 3...
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I see now that we trade back into the 1st, but how do we move down from #4 to #8 and not get a 2nd? A team moved down from 15 to 18 and got a 3rd as well. You need to really rethink this. A lot of teams get screwed over and none of your Eagles picks make any sense. We have 4 RLB, why another?
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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The first selection for the Titans is good, but the 2nd and 3rd leave something to be desired. We already have Jurrell Casey, Mike Martin, Karl Klug and now signed Sammie Lee Hill at the DT positions so Short in the 2nd isn't needed.

The Titans have shown in FA that they are interested in WRs with Washington being paid a little high and Britt and Williams being FAs. So if Keenan Allen is there in the 2nd I'd have a hard time seeing them pass on him.

With that said, Justin Hunter, Margus Hunt, Manti Te'o, Datone Jones, Arthur Brown, DeAndre Hopkins and Cornelius Carradine are also options in Round 2.

In addition to the depth at DT, we signed Shonn Greene to be our power back. So I don't think we'll be taking a RB in the top 3 rounds come April. Larry Warford, Stedman Bailey, Kyle Long and Da'Rick Rogers would all be viable options here as well.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't know Boothe's siuation, but I'm guessing he'll get re-signed. Secondly, TEs have higher value than guards. Warmack was certainly in the running, but I think the Giants would be better off supplying Eli with legit middle of the field weapon.
He very well could be but still doesn't make it a lock. If need and BPA balance and that's Cooper or Chance W. then I pray that's the pick. Fluker would be great too!

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Reese was on Sirius/MTC earlier (No Cruz info)

PK and TRock asked him who starts at left guard, his first response was "we can do some things in the draft", and then made a general comment like they can "play with some veterans on the roster".
Maybe in other systems, but for us we value trenches. If that was the case why wouldn't we draft Fleener?

Look at the TEs we have had. Shockey, Boss, Ballard, Bennett.. We drafted Robinson last year, and he will play. We also signed Myers in free agency. So a TE is not out of the question, but compared to a trench player, it better not be the pick. If all the those guys are gone, then fine, but if you have a shot to draft Chance W., Fluker, or Cooper, then that has to be the pick.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I do think Milliner could be a valuable bargaining chip. Ghoulston has no business in the 3rd and the Browns have no business drafting him.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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the saints trade down is something id like with that board and hankins would be acceptable but damn do those third rounders blow. both fill no need whatsoever, both are terrible valuewise and to be frank, both are pretty mediocre fits for what the saints do as well
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I love Austin, but it's unrealistic to trade back into the first round for a 3rd receiver.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
18. New Orleans* Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State DT

24. Indianapolis Jesse Williams, Alabama DT
36. Detroit Damontre Moore, Texas A&M DE


75. New Orleans Jamar Taylor, Boise State QB
80. New Orleans* Marqise Goodwin, Texas WR

81. Giants Zaviar Gooden, Missouri OLB
84. Cincinnati Shamarko Thomas, Syracuse S
87. Seattle Da’Rick Rogers, Tennessee State WR

TJ McDonald S USC
I dislike the Hankins personally, because if we go DT I would rather get the best NT to me which is Williams. Theres also Moore who, just because of a bad combine, I think he can still pass the rusher.

The 2 thirds suck, especially the first. If we take a QB, it will be a late round/UFA type like we have done with Canfield, Daniel, and others in the past. Goodwin is straight speed, which we already have. I put Da'Rick Rogers because if he pans out can be a #1/2A type WR, which Goodwin doesnt seem like he can become. I personally am a huge TJ McDonald fan and think Ryan would do wonders for him.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:34 AM    (permalink
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FAIL on the Saints draft! With Jones, Jordan and Mingo off the board, Patterson is the pick in the first. Hankins would not merit any consideration at this spot.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Care to elaborate?
Sure. Most people never reply to my comments on their mocks so I've mostly stopped going in-depth. You did say "All comments welcome" so I guess I should've read more closely.

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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
24. Indianapolis Jesse Williams, Alabama DT
86. Indianapolis Malliciah Goodman, Clemson DE
I personally do not see Jesse Williams as a 5 tech in the NFL. I see him as a NT only. I have a philosophical problem with taking a NT in the first unless he is a serious difference-maker, a guy that can collapse the pocket AND stuff the run. Further, NT is not at all a need for the Colts. We have two NTs in Josh Chapman and Brandon McKinney that are returning from injury. Getting them on the active roster is almost like two draft picks since neither were able to play last year. I would suggest Damontre Moore, Alex Okafor, Datone Jones, Kawann Short, or Tank Carradine there.

As for Goodman, I just don't see a future for him in the NFL. I wouldn't draft him before the 6th. I question his athleticism AND his work ethic. I would easily take Brandon Jenkins over him for an OLB, as well as multiple other prospects (including Rogers, the next pick after the Colts).
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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great steeler draft.

However, Patterson would be the pick over rhodes even though i love rhodes

Then i would imagine they would go with arthur brown or david amerson over teo

Then either a pass rusher or guard in round 3...brandon jenkins? barret jones?

I do like Rhodes and Teo though, its just unlikely they would pass on patterson
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Sure. Most people never reply to my comments on their mocks so I've mostly stopped going in-depth. You did say "All comments welcome" so I guess I should've read more closely.



I personally do not see Jesse Williams as a 5 tech in the NFL. I see him as a NT only. I have a philosophical problem with taking a NT in the first unless he is a serious difference-maker, a guy that can collapse the pocket AND stuff the run. Further, NT is not at all a need for the Colts. We have two NTs in Josh Chapman and Brandon McKinney that are returning from injury. Getting them on the active roster is almost like two draft picks since neither were able to play last year. I would suggest Damontre Moore, Alex Okafor, Datone Jones, Kawann Short, or Tank Carradine there.

As for Goodman, I just don't see a future for him in the NFL. I wouldn't draft him before the 6th. I question his athleticism AND his work ethic. I would easily take Brandon Jenkins over him for an OLB, as well as multiple other prospects (including Rogers, the next pick after the Colts).
Fair enough. I guess I still consider NT as an area of concern since Chapman was only a fifth rounder and McKinney is not a proven commodity. I guess I could see them going with what they have this year and re-evaluating the position next year.

Among the alternative picks you suggested, I have a hard time seeing a great fit. Moore is not a first rounder IMO as a 3-4 OLB. Neither is Okafor. Jones would make sense, but I think he might be a bit undersized as a 5 tech in the Colts' system. I see Short as an upfield interior rusher best suited for a Bears, Bucs, Broncos scheme. And Carradine's medical issues will, I think, prohibit him from the first round.

Some players I considered as an alternative to Williams are Sam Montgomery, Sylvester Williams and Keenan Allen.

As for Goodman, yes it is sort of a reach, but I like to put a few of those in there every time I do a deep mock draft, and 5 tech is a big need for the Colts. I have a feeling Jenkins' injury history will push him down further than most people think.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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great steeler draft.

However, Patterson would be the pick over rhodes even though i love rhodes

Then i would imagine they would go with arthur brown or david amerson over teo

Then either a pass rusher or guard in round 3...brandon jenkins? barret jones?

I do like Rhodes and Teo though, its just unlikely they would pass on patterson
All understandable points. Patterson might very well be the pick over Rhodes. I just feel the Steelers have had issues at CB for so long that they might feel it is more important to upgrade at this point in time.

I struggled with where to put Te'O, but he just seems like a Steelers' type of value pick. Brown is a bit undersized, but would offer better pass rush value. Amerson might be a slight reach, because there isn't a starting position for him to slide into.

I really loved the Wheaton fit in the third. He's really good value there, and can do a lot of the things Wallace did.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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I dislike the Hankins personally, because if we go DT I would rather get the best NT to me which is Williams. Theres also Moore who, just because of a bad combine, I think he can still pass the rusher.

The 2 thirds suck, especially the first. If we take a QB, it will be a late round/UFA type like we have done with Canfield, Daniel, and others in the past. Goodwin is straight speed, which we already have. I put Da'Rick Rogers because if he pans out can be a #1/2A type WR, which Goodwin doesnt seem like he can become. I personally am a huge TJ McDonald fan and think Ryan would do wonders for him.
You clearly didn't realize the Jamar Taylor pick was a typo. He is a CB not a QB. I apologize. But the Saints do need depth at CB.

Just because you think Williams is better than Hankins doesn't mean he'll go higher. I would say there is about a 90 percent chance Big Hank goes ahead of Jesse.

Also, Goodwin is the pick in the third because of his speed and return value. I think Sean Payton could do wonders for Goodwin, getting him the right matchups to exploit his 4.25 speed.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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FAIL on the Saints draft! With Jones, Jordan and Mingo off the board, Patterson is the pick in the first. Hankins would not merit any consideration at this spot.
I love when fans say if ONE particular player is available, he WILL be the pick. On probability alone, the Saints are more likely to pass on Patterson if he is available. Besides, Hankins would be a good pick at 18. The Saints don't have a real nose on their roster.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I love Austin, but it's unrealistic to trade back into the first round for a 3rd receiver.
The Vikes would not be trading back into the first. They picked up the 25th pick when they traded Tavon Austin Sr., er, Percy Harvin to the Hawks. They already have two picks in the first.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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I love when fans say if ONE particular player is available, he WILL be the pick. On probability alone, the Saints are more likely to pass on Patterson if he is available. Besides, Hankins would be a good pick at 18. The Saints don't have a real nose on their roster.
thats because he believes he knows the actual saints big board, its pretty cute after a while
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
I love when fans say if ONE particular player is available, he WILL be the pick. On probability alone, the Saints are more likely to pass on Patterson if he is available. Besides, Hankins would be a good pick at 18. The Saints don't have a real nose on their roster.
yeah the saints are set at the nose with bunkley who tore it up at that position before and will do so again. only DLineman id want in the first is star because he has the versatility to play multiple positions in a 3 man front and few players do. It would basically instantly solve any depth issues we have on the DLine. Still dont have a huge issue with the hankins pick but those third rounders are ugly ugly picks
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
I love when fans say if ONE particular player is available, he WILL be the pick. On probability alone, the Saints are more likely to pass on Patterson if he is available. Besides, Hankins would be a good pick at 18. The Saints don't have a real nose on their roster.
I love even more when a fan of another team think they know more about another team, on average, than a fan of the actual team.

Hankins is not a good pick in this spot for several reasons. First, the Saints have Bunkley at NT and Akiem Hicks can also play the nose. They will definitely look to improve the depth at the position but it is not a "first-round" pressing need such that they would be inclined to reach for Hankins. Second, the depth in this draft at NT is deep and a guy like Brandon Williams is not that much a drop off in talent from Hankins. So, it makes little sense for the team.

The Saints have always taken the best player they deem available. Certainly, the aim is to get a player on defense and the Saints are interested in pass rushers. But there is no guarantee that Jarvis Jones, Dion Jordan, or Barkevious Mingo will be there. So, then what? The Saints are high on Alec Ogletree but I do not know how his off-the-field concerns affect his status. They also like Austin and Patterson, and do not care if you, me, wicket or anyone else for that matter feels that a DT will be the better pick. It's no different when they took Robert Meachem when everyone thought the pick would be a CB or when they took Patrick Robinson when people thought it would be an OLB.

If you want to stick with defense, Xavier Rhodes might have made sense but he is less likely to be picked with them adding Lewis and possibly Asomugha. Vaccaro might make some sense though the Saints are not as sour on their safeties as fans are. Bottom line is, defense is the priority but the Saints will not just pick defense to satisfy what experts or fans believe they should do if they have an offensive guy rated higher.

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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
thats because he believes he knows the actual saints big board, its pretty cute after a while
Right, I am caught up in that delusion. The simple thing is to ignore delusional person.

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Old 03-19-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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It is funny, I have been talking defense all off-season. It was not until last week that my tune changed it bit. There is a reason for that, and all I try to do is alert my fellow Saints fans that things might not go down the way some of us expect if certain players are not on the board when we pick.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:23 AM    (permalink
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Ansah in the first is my ideal pick. I would love to see Kawaan Short fall to us in the 2nd. Not sure they would take him with the current DT depth, but maybe Jerrell Casey can be traded? Ball is probably the guy I wanted most to back up CJ, but it'd shock me if they took a RB in the 3rd after signing Shonne Green.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
You clearly didn't realize the Jamar Taylor pick was a typo. He is a CB not a QB. I apologize. But the Saints do need depth at CB.

Just because you think Williams is better than Hankins doesn't mean he'll go higher. I would say there is about a 90 percent chance Big Hank goes ahead of Jesse.

Also, Goodwin is the pick in the third because of his speed and return value. I think Sean Payton could do wonders for Goodwin, getting him the right matchups to exploit his 4.25 speed.
We have 4 CBs on our roster, and no true NT. I am not saying Williams is better than Hankins, I am saying for our team we need a true NT, which I believe Williams is. Goodwin has speed, but we have a guy who came on at the end of last year named Joe Adams who is a 4.3 speed guy who is already taking the slot position.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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67. Oakland Aaron Dobson, Marshall WR
Intriguing. I'd be all for it.

Star? Meh. I don't trust the guy.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MI_Buckeye View Post
Cooper and Warmack are very different players and not all teams will have them as close together as the media does. Cooper's superior athleticism and pass pro give him the edge.
Cooper, Vaccaro, and Warmack are all available when they make the trade up. That's just terrible value for trading up. The only player threatened to be taken between STL and our pick would be Vaccaro. So if you foresee that trade up it would be for Vaccaro. I don't buy it.

The two picks for Dallas are fine but the trade up as stated by another poster doesn't make sense in the slightest.
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