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Old 03-19-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
Splat
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How about we wait to see if the moves actually fail first?
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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How about we wait to see if the moves actually fail first?
Alex Smith and Chase Daniels....

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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It's March 19th and you have him on the hot seat.

FA isn't over they haven't even had the draft and they have played 0 games.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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How about we wait to see if the moves actually fail first?
wait before calling his moves a failure? agreed.
wait to discuss the consequences of failure? no thanks.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
It's March 19th and you have him on the hot seat.

FA isn't over they haven't even had the draft and they have played 0 games.
Yeah, but it doesn't matter. They have Alex Smith as their QB.

Andy Reid is off his rocker.

Would've been better to take Matt Barkley #1 overall.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Would've been better to take Matt Barkley #1 overall.
If the choice is between giving up the #1 overall pick for Matt Barkley or 2 second round picks for Alex Smith, than I would choose Smith and cry myself to sleep.

neither are appealing choices.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
bashing Joe Thomas doesn't make geno Smith better. In other words yes I agree that QB is the most important position but sometimes there aren't any QB worthy of the 1 pick. It does happen from time to time. I also like how Jake Long is supposedly a bad pick who made 4 Pro Bowls in 5 years. Here comes the "pro bowl is a joke and so are you" arguments. Regardless he's a really good player and taking a really good player at 1 is ok. It's not as good as taking Andrew Luck but it's not as bad as taking Jamarcus Russell. Alot of it has to do with desperation. If Buddy Nix and the Bills were picking 1, i'd feel more comfortable projecting Geno there. Cause Buffalo is desperate and Nix is on the hot seat. Andy Reid isn't desperate he just got there. For a guy who has to turn it around in 1 year or get fired, Geno becomes a gamble worth taking (because what's the downside if you get fired in a year either way).
No one is bashing Joe Thomas or any other LT. And you never heard me even mention Geno Smith. The argument is the impact of the LT position. It's great that Jake Long and Joe Thomas have a bunch of pro-bowls between them. But how has all of their greatness greatly benefited their teams? That's the question. They have, what, 6-7 pro-bowls between them? And ONE playoff appearance between them.

Yeah, if you can get an all-world LT. Great. But we are seeing more and more evidence that having that isn't a great requisite for team greatness.

And you keep talking about taking Geno and getting fired. Can I ask you a question? What ever happened to the coaches that drafted Joe Thomas and Jake Long? They still there or did they get fired too? And those were great picks, right? Multiple pro-bowls between them and everything. Yet, their coaches still got fired, correct? Doesn't that tell you that the Chiefs taking Joeckel or Fisher doesn't mean that Reid and Dorsey won't suffer the same fate in time?

Even if you make the argument that the Chiefs "should' take the LT, let's not pretend that means that Andy Reid and John Dorsey are safe and the Chiefs are destined for great things. Because we're seeing evidence that's not always the case with that position.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I think with the acquisitions of Alex Smith and Chase Daniels that Andy Reid is already on the hot seat.

Am I wrong?
You are correct. Some people seem to think that Andy Reid and John Dorsey are safe with that move. To me, this move is similar to what Pioli did trading a 2nd for Matt Cassel. Didn't work and 4 years later everyone is fired. If the same happens with Alex Smith then you'll see a similar outcome with the tenures of Reid and Dorsey.

So, in other words, Alex Smith better work.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KaneMarko View Post
You are correct. Some people seem to think that Andy Reid and John Dorsey are safe with that move. To me, this move is similar to what Pioli did trading a 2nd for Matt Cassel. Didn't work and 4 years later everyone is fired. If the same happens with Alex Smith then you'll see a similar outcome with the tenures of Reid and Dorsey.

So, in other words, Alex Smith better work.
What if Alex Smith is mediocre and all the 2013 QBs bust? Lol
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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What if Alex Smith is mediocre and all the 2013 QBs bust? Lol
Then the Chiefs and Chiefs fans better hope that Sutton can field one HELL of a defense.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Chiefs’ Reid addresses Albert’s status, cornerback competition
(highlights)

Andy Reid came close, but he didn’t end the mystery of Branden Albert and his standing with the Chiefs in an interview today.

“The thing I know is that he’s a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle,” Reid said from Phoenix, site of the NFL’s annual owners meetings. “I feel that way. He’s a very good player. I have no problem with saying that.”

“I’m going to try to play the five best guys,” Reid said. “I’ve never, ever in my career put a guy into a position he hasn’t played....“I know (Albert) can play left tackle and I know he can play it at a championship caliber level. That’s a refreshing thing.”

-------------------------------------
So what does this mean?

1. Team thinks highly of Albert

2. If Albert is on the team, regardless of who they draft, Albert will be the LT. Albert has only played LT in the NFL. He hasnt played RT at all in college or the NFL.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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How about we wait to see if the moves actually fail first?
Sure, we could do that. Does that also apply to the people who have already arrived at the conclusing that Andy Reid thinks Geno Smith can't play and he's right?
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KaneMarko View Post
No one is bashing Joe Thomas or any other LT. And you never heard me even mention Geno Smith. The argument is the impact of the LT position. It's great that Jake Long and Joe Thomas have a bunch of pro-bowls between them. But how has all of their greatness greatly benefited their teams? That's the question. They have, what, 6-7 pro-bowls between them? And ONE playoff appearance between them.

Yeah, if you can get an all-world LT. Great. But we are seeing more and more evidence that having that isn't a great requisite for team greatness.

And you keep talking about taking Geno and getting fired. Can I ask you a question? What ever happened to the coaches that drafted Joe Thomas and Jake Long? They still there or did they get fired too? And those were great picks, right? Multiple pro-bowls between them and everything. Yet, their coaches still got fired, correct? Doesn't that tell you that the Chiefs taking Joeckel or Fisher doesn't mean that Reid and Dorsey won't suffer the same fate in time?

Even if you make the argument that the Chiefs "should' take the LT, let's not pretend that means that Andy Reid and John Dorsey are safe and the Chiefs are destined for great things. Because we're seeing evidence that's not always the case with that position.
It's great to have a LT, but having a LT without a high quality QB does not produce wins.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
Chiefs’ Reid addresses Albert’s status, cornerback competition
(highlights)

Andy Reid came close, but he didn’t end the mystery of Branden Albert and his standing with the Chiefs in an interview today.

“The thing I know is that he’s a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle,” Reid said from Phoenix, site of the NFL’s annual owners meetings. “I feel that way. He’s a very good player. I have no problem with saying that.”

“I’m going to try to play the five best guys,” Reid said. “I’ve never, ever in my career put a guy into a position he hasn’t played....“I know (Albert) can play left tackle and I know he can play it at a championship caliber level. That’s a refreshing thing.”

-------------------------------------
So what does this mean?

1. Team thinks highly of Albert

2. If Albert is on the team, regardless of who they draft, Albert will be the LT. Albert has only played LT in the NFL. He hasnt played RT at all in college or the NFL.
3. He could be marketing Albert for a trade by putting his stamp of approval on Albert. Whatever game he is playing, it seems dangerous.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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3. He could be marketing Albert for a trade by putting his stamp of approval on Albert. Whatever game he is playing, it seems dangerous.
Please... come take our ****** OT that is disgruntled and we have no leverage to trade anymore. Please.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Whatever game he is playing, it seems dangerous.
agree with that.

1. The replacement LT could end up being not as good as Albert

2. The replacement LT could give up a sack that gets Alex Smith hurt (who has started all 16 games in a season 2x in his 8yr career)

3. chiefs could waste whatever picks they get in a trade (meaning the chiefs would have wasted the #1 overall pick on his replacement too).

If you are in a "win now" mode (trading for Alex Smith suggests that), than trading away your proven LT doesnt sound like a wise strategy.

draft cant get here fast enough.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KaneMarko View Post
You are correct. Some people seem to think that Andy Reid and John Dorsey are safe with that move. To me, this move is similar to what Pioli did trading a 2nd for Matt Cassel. Didn't work and 4 years later everyone is fired. If the same happens with Alex Smith then you'll see a similar outcome with the tenures of Reid and Dorsey.

So, in other words, Alex Smith better work.
They put themselves straight in the fire. They had a chance to draft their QB, and they gave up premium picks for a guy that was about to get cut.


Their job was REALLY simple. Draft a QB (Geno), tag Bowe (letting him walk next year), get some secondary depth (did that at least), OL depth, and draft receivers well like Dorsey has done with the Packers for years. If Geno failed, it didn't ******* matter and their jobs were safe. If Alex fails or if Geno is good, Dorsey and Reid shouldn't last two years here.

Now they're ******* with the OL.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by findthedr View Post
Chiefs’ Reid addresses Albert’s status, cornerback competition
(highlights)

Andy Reid came close, but he didn’t end the mystery of Branden Albert and his standing with the Chiefs in an interview today.

“The thing I know is that he’s a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle,” Reid said from Phoenix, site of the NFL’s annual owners meetings. “I feel that way. He’s a very good player. I have no problem with saying that.”

“I’m going to try to play the five best guys,” Reid said. “I’ve never, ever in my career put a guy into a position he hasn’t played....“I know (Albert) can play left tackle and I know he can play it at a championship caliber level. That’s a refreshing thing.”

-------------------------------------
So what does this mean?

1. Team thinks highly of Albert

2. If Albert is on the team, regardless of who they draft, Albert will be the LT. Albert has only played LT in the NFL. He hasnt played RT at all in college or the NFL.
Great info and thanks for posting that.

If that's the case, then where does that leave Joeckel? Joeckel has only played LT. Fisher has experience at RT. There is the old argument about Albert at guard since he played there at UVA. But, the young man has told anyone who will listen that he's not interested in playing anywhere but LT.

So it's going to be interesting on Round 1 night to see what the Chiefs do.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
They put themselves straight in the fire. They had a chance to draft their QB, and they gave up premium picks for a guy that was about to get cut.


Their job was REALLY simple. Draft a QB (Geno), tag Bowe (letting him walk next year), get some secondary depth (did that at least), OL depth, and draft receivers well like Dorsey has done with the Packers for years. If Geno failed, it didn't ******* matter and their jobs were safe. If Alex fails or if Geno is good, Dorsey and Reid shouldn't last two years here.

Now they're ******* with the OL.
Let's take Geno out of this for one second (although if I were the Chiefs I wouldn't have written Geno off so soon). I could make a pretty compelling argument that this was the PERFECT year for the Chiefs to ride or die with a young QB in this draft regardless of if he were taken in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round. Think about it for a second. The Chiefs have talent on the roster. They were solid all across the offensive line, have one of the great RBs in the game right now, a very good #1 receiver, a defense with pro-bowlers...This isn't a team absent talent like you normally see with a team picking this high and needing a QB. This team has a relatively solid foundation of talent that could have helped a young QB acclimate and be successful more rapidly...on paper.

As it were, the Chiefs have kinda made their bed and have pretty much signalled that they probably aren't drafting a QB at any point in this draft. If they do it'll be in the latter rounds taking a QB that really won't have much of a chance in the NFL.

That's the shame in all this, IMO.

Personally, and I've said this before, you don't create holes on your roster. To my knowledge there was nothing wrong with Eric Winston. He wasn't all world. But there are a lot worse RTs out there than Eric Winston. And the rumors of the Chiefs trading Albert to the Phins...another potential self-inflicted need. The object of team building is to get better. And the only way I know to get better is to keep your good players that you developed and add pieces around them. Taking a step back to take step forward doesn't improve your team. It actually makes you worse because instead of keeping a player, you now have to use resources to replace him. Resources that could better be used strengthening a deficiency elsewhere.

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Old 03-20-2013, 02:56 AM    (permalink
TonyGfortheTD
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Chiefs’ Reid addresses Albert’s status, cornerback competition
(highlights)

Andy Reid came close, but he didn’t end the mystery of Branden Albert and his standing with the Chiefs in an interview today.

“The thing I know is that he’s a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle,” Reid said from Phoenix, site of the NFL’s annual owners meetings. “I feel that way. He’s a very good player. I have no problem with saying that.”

“I’m going to try to play the five best guys,” Reid said. “I’ve never, ever in my career put a guy into a position he hasn’t played....“I know (Albert) can play left tackle and I know he can play it at a championship caliber level. That’s a refreshing thing.”

-------------------------------------
So what does this mean?

1. Team thinks highly of Albert

2. If Albert is on the team, regardless of who they draft, Albert will be the LT. Albert has only played LT in the NFL. He hasnt played RT at all in college or the NFL.
3. We're going to say a lot of crap without really saying anything.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Great info and thanks for posting that.

If that's the case, then where does that leave Joeckel? Joeckel has only played LT. Fisher has experience at RT. There is the old argument about Albert at guard since he played there at UVA. But, the young man has told anyone who will listen that he's not interested in playing anywhere but LT.

So it's going to be interesting on Round 1 night to see what the Chiefs do.
Jeff Allen has played RT and Schwartz is supposedly best at G. PFF is calling Schwartz a potential Pro Bowler there if he can get a shot and stay injury-free. Then if there's any truth to an Albert trade, it leaves the door open at LT.

I'm not sayin'... but just sayin'.

Disclaimer: I don't think they will trade Albert and have no earthly idea what they will do in the draft anymore. They could draft Manti T'eo at #1 and it wouldn't surprise me. Maybe a little.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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No one is bashing Joe Thomas or any other LT. And you never heard me even mention Geno Smith. The argument is the impact of the LT position. It's great that Jake Long and Joe Thomas have a bunch of pro-bowls between them. But how has all of their greatness greatly benefited their teams? That's the question. They have, what, 6-7 pro-bowls between them? And ONE playoff appearance between them.

Yeah, if you can get an all-world LT. Great. But we are seeing more and more evidence that having that isn't a great requisite for team greatness.

my point was the poster brought up an article from 2012 that was a smoke screen. the Vikings said LT wasn't important... and then drafted the best LT. And whether it's a coincidence or not, that team went 10-6. The idea of "greatness" is somewhat arbitrary standard. No a top LT won't make a team championship caliber all by himself. But it's still an extremely important position.

how about the fact that the Ravens got really hot just when McKinnee came into LT and Oher moved to RT?

here's another example in 2011 the philadelphia Eagles had Jason peters playing at an All Pro level. In 2012 Peters tore his achillies and the team fell apart. Was it all because of the LT, no certainly the Eagles had other issues. But to run a passing offense you need one of these guys, cause there's gonna be a TE side chipping the RT and the LT is usually on an island. The LT has really tough assignments in the NFL.

THis idea that the LT is not as important as it used to be is a theory... without much evidence to back it up.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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my point was the poster brought up an article from 2012 that was a smoke screen. the Vikings said LT wasn't important... and then drafted the best LT. And whether it's a coincidence or not, that team went 10-6. The idea of "greatness" is somewhat arbitrary standard. No a top LT won't make a team championship caliber all by himself. But it's still an extremely important position.

how about the fact that the Ravens got really hot just when McKinnee came into LT and Oher moved to RT?

here's another example in 2011 the philadelphia Eagles had Jason peters playing at an All Pro level. In 2012 Peters tore his achillies and the team fell apart. Was it all because of the LT, no certainly the Eagles had other issues. But to run a passing offense you need one of these guys, cause there's gonna be a TE side chipping the RT and the LT is usually on an island. The LT has really tough assignments in the NFL.

THis idea that the LT is not as important as it used to be is a theory... without much evidence to back it up.
All of what you say it true, but I don't think it speaks to the point. The LT is important, but the QB is still more important. And truth be told, the best team have good play out of both of those positions.

Back to the Chiefs, here is what is potentially so stange about there moves. Right now, they have a slightly above average vet QB and a top tier vet LT to go along with some Pro Bowl defensive players on the team. If the intent is to win now, then acquiring Smith and keeping Albert makes some sense. However, if the the intent is to trade Albert and downgrade to a rookie LT in Joeckel, you might as well have kept the picks for Smith and drafted Geno Smith and surrounded him with weapons with Albert protecting him.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Back to the Chiefs, here is what is potentially so stange about there moves. Right now, they have a slightly above average vet QB and a top tier vet LT to go along with some Pro Bowl defensive players on the team. If the intent is to win now, then acquiring Smith and keeping Albert makes some sense. However, if the the intent is to trade Albert and downgrade to a rookie LT in Joeckel, you might as well have kept the picks for Smith and drafted Geno Smith and surrounded him with weapons with Albert protecting him.
How do we know that Joeckel or Fisher are a downgrade on Albert? Brandon Albert is not an All Pro or a Pro Bowl player. It's a stretch to call Brandon Albert top tier. He's not in the Joe Thomas tier. It's highly likely that Fisher or Joeckel are upgrades on Albert. Keep in mind many scouts still believe Albert's best position is guard. Even tho Albert and his agents disagree.

Alot of it comes down to risk. Joeckel is far less risky than Geno. A team can draft Geno, surround him with weapons and still see him fail. He's boom or bust. It's unlikely Joeckel will totally fail. Most of these highly picked OL succeed.

We could point to Robert Gallery as an example of failure but even he had an 8 year career. Which is another point you can take Joeckel or Fisher and play them at other spots if they can't hack LT. OR Andre Smith a top 5 pick who became a great RT. you can't play Geno at any other spot besides QB.

the challenge for the Chiefs is they have to make that 1 pick and it's a tough place to really gamble. even tho 23 mil isn't 60 mil, it's still a bad place to screw up.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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I have to say I am having a difficult time figuring out if all the negativity towards Andy Reid and the Chiefs organization in general is coming from frustrated Chiefs fans or everyone else flipping them ****. Either way, there are a few things I would like to point out...

1) Andy Reid is a winner. In 14 seasons in Philadelphia he won 6 division titles, and 4 other times was 2nd in his division. He is not accustomed to losing and will bring that with him to Kansas City.

2) Andy Reid has always addressed team needs in a questionable manner. For years fans were screaming that the Eagles needed a true #1 receiver and yet come opening day they would trot out guys like James Thrash as their top dog.

3) One thing that I have notuiced over the years is that Reid tends to fix team units "in bunches." I recall one year they had one of the top passing defenses, but were looking at several free agents the following year, so they took Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown 1-2. When he needs to beef up the front 7, he will take 2 or 3 guys early in that draft. He needed offensive weapons, so he made that a point of emphasis over the course of 2 drafts (Jackson/McCoy/Maclin, '08-'09).

4) While Reid has been highly criticized for not winning the big one, his teams are perennial contenders, and I don't expect that to change at all. His teams always show up to play, and are among the most talented in the league. He always has strong lines, which is why it won't surprise me in the least if he drafts Joeckel/Fisher or Floyd/Lotulelei at #1, even though neither position appears to be a huge need.

5) Reid is very much like the rest of the coaches from the Mike Holmgren tree in that he plays favorites and wants to win with his guys, right or wrong. There will be a lot of turnover in player personnel, and some of the moves will surprise you. It will probably be a couple of years before he really gets "his" team in place. But when he does, they are "his" guys and he will win with them. I see this year being a year of transition, and 2014 being the year that the Chiefs start their strong upswing.
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