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Old 03-20-2013, 10:16 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Tell me what Cap-Room the Niners have to re-sign Revis for a big deal and then Kaepernick after next season?
That's for them to deal with. I know that you can easily maneuver if you're willing to. For starters, they'll have 6mil off next year with Boldin. They declined to pay Goldson. They'll have to make tough decisions. They may lose Crabtree if they choose to pay Revis.

I'm no cap guru but anything is possible. The Seahawks are at 132 mil right now and the cap is 123 for 2013. And they still have to sign draft picks...

Or they could trade for Revis and just do what the Jets don't want to. Let him play out his contract and see where the chips fall after the season.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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That's for them to deal with. I know that you can easily maneuver if you're willing to. For starters, they'll have 6mil off next year with Boldin. They declined to pay Goldson. They'll have to make tough decisions. They may lose Crabtree if they choose to pay Revis.

I'm no cap guru but anything is possible. The Seahawks are at 132 mil right now and the cap is 123 for 2013. And they still have to sign draft picks...

Or they could trade for Revis and just do what the Jets don't want to. Let him play out his contract and see where the chips fall after the season.
I'll say this: Draft picks wise, Niners have the most too offer. However, I think they pass. They have a lot of money tied up in their LBs. Plus, Aldon Smith is going to get paid in a couple years too.

No way they want to lose Crabtree.

Honestly, The Jets are projected to have around 30 million next year. Why not keep Revis for 12-13 mil per? Yet they'll keep Cromartie? Something doesn't seem right.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I'll say this: Draft picks wise, Niners have the most too offer. However, I think they pass. They have a lot of money tied up in their LBs. Plus, Aldon Smith is going to get paid in a couple years too.

No way they want to lose Crabtree.

Honestly, The Jets are projected to have around 30 million next year. Why not keep Revis for 12-13 mil per? Yet they'll keep Cromartie? Something doesn't seem right.
I'm not saying they have to necessarily. I'm just saying there are moves they can make to make it work.

You have to agree that it's very odd that Nnamdi hasn't signed there yet.

The Jets situation is way more complicated than it seems.

Woody Johnson and Revis have made this personal. And it's mostly Tannenbaum's fault. They kept making stupid deals and promises that they'd re-do his contract. And they can't franchise him. Woody doesn't want to pay him that huge deal and it has little to do with football.

Then there's Idzik who probably doesn't want to pay him that huge deal (CB, injury, never good to sign non-QBs to gigantic deals).

The only guy banging on the table to keep him is Rex who:

a) ignores offense which hurts the franchise.
b) might not be here after next year.

So Idzik is in a bind. He really can't give him an extension right now. There's the injury factor for one.

b) it sets a bad precedent that they'll negotiate with guys who are unhappy with their contracts.

And if they let him play out the season to prove his worth, he's gone next year to the highest bidder because they can't franchise him.

Not to mention the CB market is way messed up and he wants an unrealistic amount of money.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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I think it's painfully obvious the 49ers are still lurking in this.

They haven't signed Aso yet and the report was that the team was still 'considering it.' Wtf? If he's willing to sign there, why would the team STILL be mulling it over?

I bet they are either trying to go over numbers to fit Revis in or really considering renting him for a year and then maybe re-upping after the season.
Or maybe they just can't agree on a contract. Same thing in regards to Woodson.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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The reason Nmadi hasn't signed yet is he's got history with Rob Ryan, so He's considering New Orleans as well.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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The reason Asomugah, Woodson, and Revis haven't signed in San Francisco is because Trent Baalke and Paraag Marathe simply don't throw money around. They have a set number in mind and if the player doesn't come anywhere near it, they won't even negotiate with them.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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The reason Asomugah, Woodson, and Revis haven't signed in San Francisco is because Trent Baalke and Paraag Marathe simply don't throw money around. They have a set number in mind and if the player doesn't come anywhere near it, they won't even negotiate with them.
Yep, and i'm sure this can apply in a similar position in a potential Revis trade- i'm sure the 49ers have a pick or package they'll offer, they won't go any higher than what they currently are offering, and if the Jets don't accept, then a deal won't happen.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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The reason Asomugah, Woodson, and Revis haven't signed in San Francisco is because Trent Baalke and Paraag Marathe simply don't throw money around. They have a set number in mind and if the player doesn't come anywhere near it, they won't even negotiate with them.
You can be that way thanks to the success the last few seasons. Players actually want to come play for the Niners and be a part of the franchise again with all the winning/attention going on.

It is easy to have that philosophy when good things are happening.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Niners fans - I hope you all are right. i want no part of Revis on that D.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I'll say this: Draft picks wise, Niners have the most too offer. However, I think they pass. They have a lot of money tied up in their LBs. Plus, Aldon Smith is going to get paid in a couple years too.

No way they want to lose Crabtree.

Honestly, The Jets are projected to have around 30 million next year. Why not keep Revis for 12-13 mil per? Yet they'll keep Cromartie? Something doesn't seem right.
Agree completely. If it's really what it's reported to be, this is personal for Woody Johnson, that is ridiculous. He's been a bad owner for a while anyway, but I just don't see how you can make a decision of this magnitude for personal reasons.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Agree completely. If it's really what it's reported to be, this is personal for Woody Johnson, that is ridiculous. He's been a bad owner for a while anyway, but I just don't see how you can make a decision of this magnitude for personal reasons.
He doesn't give a ****. He's the owner. There's no magnitude for him. He is the magnitude. He can't get fired.

And I don't think it's 100% personal. I think Idzik is wary of an extension too for the reasons I stated.

It really is Mr. T's fault.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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You can be that way thanks to the success the last few seasons. Players actually want to come play for the Niners and be a part of the franchise again with all the winning/attention going on.

It is easy to have that philosophy when good things are happening.
Baalke and Marathe have been that way since they've been running the show. Basically, post-Mike Nolan, even though Maraathe was there then, he wasn't as high on the ladder.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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The reason Asomugah, Woodson, and Revis haven't signed in San Francisco is because Trent Baalke and Paraag Marathe simply don't throw money around. They have a set number in mind and if the player doesn't come anywhere near it, they won't even negotiate with them.
Should be interesting when Crabtree, Kaepernick, and Aldon Smith sign their next contract.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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Should be interesting when Crabtree, Kaepernick, and Aldon Smith sign their next contract.
QB and Pass Rusher have a higher standard. However, it helps that those contracts won't have to be extended at once. They're all under contract until 2015.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:37 AM    (permalink
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Should be interesting when Crabtree, Kaepernick, and Aldon Smith sign their next contract.
You need more wiggle room when it comes to top tier players. We did re-sign Bowman during the season as well as Brooks and Rogers last offseason so i don't think it'll be a problem with other players. But who knows.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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"Without Much Troube" = He'll be happy for a year, maybe 2. Then hold out for more money.
Just to clarify, that wasn't what "without much trouble" was referring to in the original context. They were saying that the Bucs would have no problem signing Revis to a long-term contract once he was traded for, not that he would be happy throughout the life of the contract.

As for how the books are working... sure, the Jets will have a ton of cap space next, but that would only be while having a ton of holes. There's a lot of unknowns and, potentially, a lot of other people they may want to sign. They also can't really wait until his current contract expires because at that point, they may just have to get into a massive bidding war for Revis.

I think a lot of speculation and nonsense in the media has gone around, but the NY media is absolutely awful. Most of them don't know what they're doing, don't have any journalistic integrity, and are just hunting for the next big story. If nothing happens in the next week, they will probably be waiting until Revis starts running, which I think is scheduled to be in a couple weeks. If he checks out and looks to be completely on the comeback mend, then I really wouldn't rule out him being re-signed (and they might even wait it out until further into the summer). I think just with how the Jets are covered in New York, everyone wants to press things, and luckily, Idzik isn't biting and is taking his time. They're filling holes, letting the CB market establish itself, seeing where Revis is in his rehab, and actually doing exactly what was said for once (i.e. a collaborative effort). At the end of the day, I would say there's an equal chance we re-sign him, he goes to the Bucs, or he goes to a darkhorse team. As things continue to settle and this begins to unfold, I don't think anyone has the advantage over anyone else.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Whoever trades a first round pick (and more) for Revis will regret it.

Nobody every became a perennial winner in the NFL by trading high draft picks for (non-QB) position players. Can you name one team in the history of the NFL that successfully made a high-profile trade (featuring high draft picks) for a non-QB and benefited from it? Probably not.

I can, however, point to a few teams that thought they were "one player away" and traded valuable draft picks for supposedly elite players - and ended up just wasting their draft picks.

- The early 90s Minnesota Vikings gave up the farm for Herschel Walker. All that did was help create the 90s Cowboys dynasty.

- The late 90s New Orleans Saints traded a ton of draft picks for Ricky Williams. All that did was get Mike Ditka ridiculed and fired.

- Time will eventually tell, but I think that the Julio Jones acquisition by the Falcons involving a ton of draft picks will end up hurting them in the long run. They have very little depth on their roster right now in critical areas, especially defense. Sure, Jones looks like a nice WR, but at the expense of depth elsewhere (especially now that key pieces like John Abraham and Brent Grimes and Asante Samuel will be gone)? Their defense will be bad for years and the Falcons will not even reach the NFCCG ever again, I predict.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Can you name one team in the history of the NFL that successfully made a high-profile trade (featuring high draft picks) for a non-QB and benefited from it? Probably not.
Sure can. The Buccaneers traded 2 first round selections to the Jets for Keyshawn Johnson in 2000, then traded 2 first round and 2 second round selections to the Oakland Raiders for Jon Gruden in 2002.

The result? A Lombardi Trophy.


That said, I'm still not in favor of trading the 13th overall pick for Revis. When the Bucs traded for Johnson and Gruden, you could argue that they were were a competent offense away from a title. The best you can say about the Bucs of today is that they're a couple of defensive playmakers away from having a shot at a Wild Card berth.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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In fact, the source said, if the Jets are willing to take both picks in 2014, Tampa Bay would likely deal its first- and second-round picks for Revis, even though the Bucs are not sold that he can come back and be 100 percent after 2012 knee surgery.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...ay-buccaneers/

If that really is the case, I would hope that Idzik pulls the trigger. That would be far better than a 1st and 3rd this year, or if he's only going for a 1st this year by itself. I'm not really sure why he would be hanging on. Sounds like, at this point, the Bucs are now about as desperate to get Revis as the Jets seem to be to trade him. I think the 1st and 2nd next year for Revis is a very reasonable compromise both sides should agree upon.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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If Mark Dominic steers the course and makes this deal, he'll be fired next year. Honestly, the Bucs need to stick with the plan and build through the draft. Not give up picks.

Bucs had one of the worst pass rushes in the nfl last 3 years. This draft is heavy and deep at that position, along with the CB position. They still lack depth at LB and along the dline.

And not to mention, there's still a HUGE QUESTION MARK surrounding Josh Freeman's ability to take them to the playoffs.

History shows giving up the farm for a top CB hasn't worked out. Building through the draft does.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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A 2014 first and second? What the ****? That's as good as a deal as they can ask for. Add your pass rushers and linemen this year and go all in for a QB next year. This is a no-brainer...

Woody's probably just worried about selling tickets this year. But for Idzik? He's probably DYING to take that offer but is being held back...
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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A 2014 first and second? What the ****? That's as good as a deal as they can ask for. Add your pass rushers and linemen this year and go all in for a QB next year. This is a no-brainer...

Woody's probably just worried about selling tickets this year. But for Idzik? He's probably DYING to take that offer but is being held back...
Thats the thing: I'm not sure who pays that price plus 15 million a year. I'm not buying the report it'll take 12-13 million a year. Not with Revis. He's the guy that asked for a new deal AFTER he got 12 million a year before the 2011 season.

He wants to be the highest paid Defensive player. I'll hate Tampa for this.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Thats the thing: I'm not sure who pays that price plus 15 million a year. I'm not buying the report it'll take 12-13 million a year. Not with Revis. He's the guy that asked for a new deal AFTER he got 12 million a year before the 2011 season.

He wants to be the highest paid Defensive player. I'll hate Tampa for this.
Give the CB market and his injury and the fact that apparently they already have the contract done with Tampa, he's not getting more than 13/yr.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Give the CB market and his injury and the fact that apparently they already have the contract done with Tampa, he's not getting more than 13/yr.
This is still all speculation. Even if it's true, he comes back this year, dominates and returns to old self, he'll hold out for 15 mil per.,
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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A 2014 first and second? What the ****? That's as good as a deal as they can ask for. Add your pass rushers and linemen this year and go all in for a QB next year. This is a no-brainer...

Woody's probably just worried about selling tickets this year. But for Idzik? He's probably DYING to take that offer but is being held back...
I doubt it. I don't think Woody is pulling the strings as much as some people here are assuming. What's more likely the case is that Tampa hasn't actually given that offer yet. We'll see what happens this week. I'm sure a lot of headway was made behind the scenes at the owner's meeting.
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