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Old 03-18-2013, 07:04 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I was thinking about this the other day, if we lose a guy we signed to a 1 year contract to FA the following year, do we get a comp pick?

Bc if we do, then signing these guys to 1 year contracts could actually be a brilliant way of building equity through the draft.

Having that said, I don't like our offseason so far. Myers is solid, but he better work on his blocking if he wants to succeed here, plus that means Robinson rots away for another year.

Connor sucks.

Signing all these vets to 1 year contracts is gonna further delay the development of our young guys. You know Coughlin is loyal to vets, he'll play the 1 year contract guys to give them a chance to build their stock after the season. The young pups stay on the bench for another year.

I rather let the young guys play. Not a fan. Unless, like I asked, if we can get comp picks from these guys. Then it's a smart way of building equity.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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We don't know.. The formula is kept secret so it can't be manipulated. I doubt it, I think it's contract length, money, and the production. Then, it's a matter of net player movement in and net player movement out. I think you need more going out then signed in. Again, the specifics no one knows.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Giants have been awarded one compensatory draft pick -- in the seventh round (Pick No. 253)
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Bleh. Also, I'm alright with this off-season so far. It could be MUCH worse. It's been solid. I have no problem with Connor or Myers. I expect Myers to make an impact, Connor will fight for a spot on the team. It's nothing special but you need these types of signings to complete your team.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Trying to read in btw the lines from Reese's interview, it sounds like the team is high on Adrian Robinson. Reese sounds like he wishes he had more playing time last year. Sounds like he did very well in practice.

Also he said Robinson is gonna be our blocking TE this year. So maybe Myers is the HBack type?

It also seems like he wants to go with Robinson this year but bc he's raw and didn't get any playing time last year, he couldn't risk going all in with him. So Myers makes sense as a 1 year rental until Robinson is fully developed next year.

Also sounds like he doesn't really have much of a plan at LG other than draft someone in case Boothe leaves.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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That's how I read it. TC is not Reese's choice for HC. He was EA's choice. Normally GMs to put a stamp on their team pick their HCs. I wonder if that aspect bothers Reese since he was a scout. You pick the groceries and a HC doesn't play a guy you think could have played and gained experience. I wonder if that bothers Reese. What if AR doesn't play this year? Would that bother Reese?

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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That's how I read it. TC is not Reese's choice for HC. He was EA's choice. Normally GMs to put a stamp on their team pick their HCs. I wonder if that aspect bothers Reese since he was a scout. You pick the groceries and a HC doesn't play a guy you think could have played and gained experience. I wonder if that bothers Reese. What if AR doesn't play this year? What that bother Reese?
It doesn't surprise me too much. I sense Reese and TC, despite having a good relationship, have different views on personnel. One of TC's flaws is that he's too loyal to veterans and I think Reese realizes that in this game you can't really have that luxury. I feel like if it were up to Reese, Tuck would have been benched in the season for Tracy or Ojomo.

Reese has shown he's willing to cut players that aren't getting it done. TC likes to hold onto those guys I feel. Same goes with coaches too.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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It doesn't surprise me too much. I sense Reese and TC, despite having a good relationship, have different views on personnel. One of TC's flaws is that he's too loyal to veterans and I think Reese realizes that in this game you can't really have that luxury. I feel like if it were up to Reese, Tuck would have been benched in the season for Tracy or Ojomo.

Reese has shown he's willing to cut players that aren't getting it done. TC likes to hold onto those guys I feel. Same goes with coaches too.
Maybe it's an age thing, with TC being old school and rather play veterans. Perhaps Reese feels here I am getting these guys and they are not playing, when the scouting dept. feels like these guys can step in. With the offense struggling at times, maybe changing things up could have helped.

That's an annoying thing. When things on that day aren't going your way, we don't try something different. No trick plays during the game, or after for the next one letting someone else have a shot.

If Tuck is having a miserable season with 3 sacks, then why not add a younger guy and see if he can play? It's interesting because even if Reese hates Coughlin, he can't show it, because Coughlin is a HOFer. However, TC is still not Reese's guy. Ironic, because Reese has 99% of the team stamped as his except for the 1% which is the HC, which every GM wants to find.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
It doesn't surprise me too much. I sense Reese and TC, despite having a good relationship, have different views on personnel. One of TC's flaws is that he's too loyal to veterans and I think Reese realizes that in this game you can't really have that luxury. I feel like if it were up to Reese, Tuck would have been benched in the season for Tracy or Ojomo.

Reese has shown he's willing to cut players that aren't getting it done. TC likes to hold onto those guys I feel. Same goes with coaches too.
Agree with all of this. It's more difficult for a coach because they have a much deeper personal relationship with the players than the GM does.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Reese dislikes Coughlin. When Reese was hired as GM he couldve moved in his own direction if he wanted. He kept Coughlin. No one is ever going to agree with everything. Nor should they. Like Mike Lombardi says, when everyone is thinking the same no one is thinking.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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I actually like the signings of Rivers, Connor, Myers and Murphy

They fill key needs, give the players the opportunity to deliver on the field without restricting our cap too much.

Look at our LB group, with Connor, Rivers, Williams, Herzlich and Paysinger we have a good core to build around.

We have worked out Colorado TE Nick Kasa, he could well be the TE Pope has his eye on.

As far as the Cruz situation, the comments from Eli are very interesting
from http://www.giants101.com/2013/03/20/...-his-contract/

Quote:
New York Giants’ Eli Manning Hopeful Victor Cruz Returns; Open to Re-Working His Contract
March 20th, 2013 at 12:30 PM
By Dan Benton

Add New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning to the number of people who have absolutely no idea what the future holds for wide receiver Victor Cruz.

While making the media rounds on Wednesday morning, Manning said that Cruz switching to agent Tom Condon, who also represents the Pro Bowl quarterback, will only help the ongoing negotiations. He also said, jokingly, that he text Condon to "make sure" the situation works out.

One interesting point Manning did make was how well Cruz fits into the Giants' offensive system and how he'd be taking a chance to seek a similar fit elsewhere.

"He fits very well into our offense. … You never know, if you go to another offense, maybe it doesn't fit as well," Manning said.

But does Easy-E, who has already begun his 2013 workouts, truly believe Cruz will be back this season and beyond?

"I do. I think that's what I have to and want to believe," Manning said.

Finally, Manning also said he's open to restructuring or re-working his contract if it meant helping the organization, but admits he's not yet been approached to do that.

"I’m always up for listening and figuring out what I can do to help the cause," he said.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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TC not buying JPP's weight gain as "muscle."

Quote:
Speaking at the NFL’s annual meetings, Coughlin revealed that Pierre-Paul reported to training camp overweight last summer and struggled much of the year to get rid of the extra pounds.

The surplus weight may have played a role in the back issues that hindered Pierre-Paul in 2012, not to mention a stunning dropoff in sack production that prompted Coughlin to do what few in the Giants’ organization have done publicly — express disappointment in the former first-round pick.

“He didn’t play as well as the year before,” Coughlin said glumly before shrugging his shoulders when asked why he thought Pierre-Paul plummeted from 16.5 sacks during the Giants’ 2011 Super Bowl run to 6.5 sacks last season.

Coughlin admitted Pierre-Paul’s weight was an issue much of the year. Coughlin wouldn’t specify how overweight Pierre-Paul was when he reported to camp, but the coach said it took well into the second half of the schedule to get him back to his ideal weight of 275 pounds.

“He was big when he came to camp,” Coughlin said.

Coughlin also doesn’t appear to be buying Pierre-Paul’s excuse that the extra weight was acceptable because it was more muscle than body fat.

“There’s not a lot of body fat [with Pierre-Paul], yes, but still ...” Coughlin said, the frustration obvious in his voice.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I just mentioned this in the other thread. I wanted to bring it up last week but I bit my tounge. After I read Coughlin's comments it bothered me. To have your GM and coach call you out on being lazy really gets on my nerves even with his amazing 2011.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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He's a young guy who's new to the game and who stepped in and was amazing from the get go. Guys like that need to hit some adversity to bounce back and learn how to be real pros and not just beasts. It's hockey season and my team is seeing this same thing with our young former allstar Center Matt Duchene, his first two years were amazing but last year he didn't have a strong offseason and started the season like crap before battling some injuries. After that hit he went to town on this last offseason and is one of the leading even strength scorers in the league. I think we'll see something very similar from JPP with this public hit, I'm expecting the kid to rededicate himself to his offseason preparation and put even that superbowl season to shame.

Youth and inexperience makes people make bad decisions, even if they've got a good head on their shoulders, it's learning from those bad decisions and fixing them that the guys with the work ethic and drive to be great do, and I believe in JPP, I believe he has that drive and is a good guy. That's why I'm not too worried, but I do want to add someone in the draft with great upside so that JPP gets some quality help, and by quality help I don't mean Tuck pouting and Osi ignoring the fact that not every play ends in a strip-sack.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Osi looks like he'll be with the Falcons soon.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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I thought there was a difference watching him last season VS watching the youtube highlight video of him during his 16.5 sack season. He looked slender and displayed great quickness during that year. He looked bigger last season. To be fair though, teams adjusted to him and they adjusted to the pass rush in general. So there were other components to it. However, just by watching that video, you can tell there was a difference.

The strength and conditioning coach and the team's diet guy should be handling this. He should be on a certain meal plan, and the S&C coach should be working with him. Maybe this off season, things can shape up for JPP.

Quote:
Omar Kelly @OmarKelly 10m
Word on the street is Osi Umenyiora is asking for more than the Dolphins are willing to pay right now. Market for DE is $5M & he wants more

Quote:
Atlanta Journal Constitution ...

Osi Umenyiora: If the Falcons just want somebody to go get the quarterback – and they should – this is their man. He has 74 sacks in the last eight seasons, but only six of those came last year. Like other defensive ends, Umenyiora appears to have a higher asking price than anybody is willing to give. But the fact the Falcons have never even been hinted at as having interest makes you believe they have other issues with him, like maybe his play against the run.

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Super Bowl hangover. It happened to the whole team. Tuck was leading that parade.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Tuck is injury prone and getting old. He couldn't set the edge, and was useless pass rushing. To be fair, offenses adjusted and were simply getting rid of the ball. JPP needs to slim down, and be able to manage double teams better as per TC and Reese.

SB hangover to an extent but that's over played. Coming off of SB 42 we had a great season and then Burress shot himself like a fool he is. Things fell apart.

We simply weren't good, due to injuries, scheme, and coaching. It was a sad waste, but Coughlin needs to fix that late season swoon. It's getting annoying to see that happen. Until he fixes it, questions will constantly, be asked regarding this issue.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Tuck is injury prone and getting old. He couldn't set the edge, and was useless pass rushing. To be fair, offenses adjusted and were simply getting rid of the ball. JPP needs to slim down, and be able to manage double teams better as per TC and Reese.

SB hangover to an extent but that's over played. Coming off of SB 42 we had a great season and then Burress shot himself like a fool he is. Things fell apart.

We simply weren't good, due to injuries, scheme, and coaching. It was a sad waste, but Coughlin needs to fix that late season swoon. It's getting annoying to see that happen. Until he fixes it, questions will constantly, be asked regarding this issue.
That's a ton of crock though. Offenses adjusted last year too. Teams got rid of the ball quickly, max protected, screened, and chipped all of last year too.

The players just didn't execute. The difference btw this year and last year was JPP had a down year, Tuck never turned it on like he did last year in the playoffs, and Osi had a down year. And Canty was hurt, which was a huge blow that you can't measure in stats.

The players just didn't play well. If you get another DE opposite JPP, if JPP slims down and dedicates himself, and if we get interior production out of someone we'll be fine.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Our entire defense needs a makeover, and I don't know if we'll get to fix it in one offseason. There's a lot of work to do on defense.

I wouldn't mind CB in round 1 to shore up the secondary, and hope that one of our young safeties can step up. Then you gotta hope we nab a LB somewhere in the draft that's productive and hope JWill steps up at WILL to shore up the LB core, and we gotta hope we can grab a DE somewhere to help JPP out on the DL.

So we have 3 major needs on defense in DB, LB, and DE. I would prefer a CB over a S, although I wouldn't mind a Safety at all as well.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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That's a ton of crock though. Offenses adjusted last year too. Teams got rid of the ball quickly, max protected, screened, and chipped all of last year too.

The players just didn't execute. The difference btw this year and last year was JPP had a down year, Tuck never turned it on like he did last year in the playoffs, and Osi had a down year. And Canty was hurt, which was a huge blow that you can't measure in stats.

The players just didn't play well. If you get another DE opposite JPP, if JPP slims down and dedicates himself, and if we get interior production out of someone we'll be fine.
They did adjust to our pass rush. That whole can't have too many pass rushers theory is great if it's pass rushers and not just DEs. Teams, opposing offenses have adjusted to us, and get rid of the ball quicker.

JPP got adjusted to. Tuck was useless, and Osi gets pressure and takes some plays off, specifically running plays. Canty was hurt, so who do you focus on? JPP, and if that weight stuff is true, then that's another knock. Factor in offenses adjusting and that's another knock.

Are we done? Nope, Factor in Cb play, and then scheme by our a.. hole Fewell.

Our offense had issues too. We had X hurt, OL hurt, Hixon hurt, RB hurt, and MB hurt. Factor in scheme which got exposed in areas and that hurt us. I saw this damn early in fact and mentioned about me pushing the panic button, only to get Rosebud commenting on that. However, I know I saw things I didn't like from the get go and it compounded as the season went on.


Not to mention the cherry on the top is the hardest schedule in the NFL to boot. When everything is factored I am not surprised we had this kind of year. I am very frustrated about it.

I like Rhodes a lot actually, and the fat DT from Georgia. He and LinJo would make me happier. I love the slot we are drafting in. I believe teams over drafting will knock quality players down to us.

Vaccaro I like too. I think he will be a good safety. It's amazing how little interest KP got on the market and the cheap 1 year, show me deal he signed.

A lot of mocks have us taking TEs. Not the first position I'd draft this year, but Kiper did say Ertz had a higher rating than Fleener, so Eifert and Ertz, wouldn't be all bad. However, I am an advocate on OL, Rhodes, Vaccaro, and Austin.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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They did adjust to our pass rush. That whole can't have too many pass rushers theory is great if it's pass rushers and not just DEs. Teams, opposing offenses have adjusted to us, and get rid of the ball quicker.

JPP got adjusted to. Tuck was useless, and Osi gets pressure and takes some plays off, specifically running plays. Canty was hurt, so who do you focus on? JPP, and if that weight stuff is true, then that's another knock. Factor in offenses adjusting and that's another knock.

Are we done? Nope, Factor in Cb play, and then scheme by our a.. hole Fewell.

Our offense had issues too. We had X hurt, OL hurt, Hixon hurt, RB hurt, and MB hurt. Factor in scheme which got exposed in areas and that hurt us. I saw this damn early in fact and mentioned about me pushing the panic button, only to get Rosebud commenting on that. However, I know I saw things I didn't like from the get go and it compounded as the season went on.


Not to mention the cherry on the top is the hardest schedule in the NFL to boot. When everything is factored I am not surprised we had this kind of year. I am very frustrated about it.

I like Rhodes a lot actually, and the fat DT from Georgia. He and LinJo would make me happier. I love the slot we are drafting in. I believe teams over drafting will knock quality players down to us.

Vaccaro I like too. I think he will be a good safety. It's amazing how little interest KP got on the market and the cheap 1 year, show me deal he signed.

A lot of mocks have us taking TEs. Not the first position I'd draft this year, but Kiper did say Ertz had a higher rating than Fleener, so Eifert and Ertz, wouldn't be all bad. However, I am an advocate on OL, Rhodes, Vaccaro, and Austin.
All the "adjustments" they made were done to the Giants in 2011. There's no difference. The adjustments excuse is baloney.

Fewell didn't adjust back for 2 years, yes, but when we were hot in the playoffs the players overcame those adjustments and they simply did not do that in the regular season last year or this year, and that's largely due to JPP having a down year and Tuck being hurt/mopey/lackadasical.

See I don't buy the adjustments excuse bc it was the same scheme as 2011, the same counters by offenses in 2011, they just didn't play as well. And that's largely bc of injury, JPP not playing as well, and Fewell's coverages.

Same problem 2 years in a row. There's nothing new that happened to this defense in 2012 that they didn't see in 2011.

I like Vacarro too. His 40 concerns me, but I wouldn't mind if we take him either.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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All the "adjustments" they made were done to the Giants in 2011. There's no difference. The adjustments excuse is baloney.

Fewell didn't adjust back for 2 years, yes, but when we were hot in the playoffs the players overcame those adjustments and they simply did not do that in the regular season last year or this year, and that's largely due to JPP having a down year and Tuck being hurt/mopey/lackadasical.

See I don't buy the adjustments excuse bc it was the same scheme as 2011, the same counters by offenses in 2011, they just didn't play as well. And that's largely bc of injury, JPP not playing as well, and Fewell's coverages.

Same problem 2 years in a row. There's nothing new that happened to this defense in 2012 that they didn't see in 2011.

I like Vacarro too. His 40 concerns me, but I wouldn't mind if we take him either.
Not all teams no, it first started by the Eagles after we won, in 2008-09 season. But the league has been using it more and more against us. Obviously we don't play every team, every year, except for the division rivals. So the teams this year used it we haven't played used it.. And it worked. So again, that has to be solved? How? Something other then putting all your chips in the DEs pass rush dept.

The teams we played used that model and beat us. Not all teams used that model in 2011, and those teams didn't know JPP would be a have break out year were he contributed with 16.5 sacks. He basically saved us and factor in a great year by Webster, and adjustments by Fewell we managed to win.

And teams on their end failed to convert. It's not like they didn't try to use that model. Austin missed Miles, Rodgers missed JF, and in the SB brady missed Welker. In key moments, they failed, which was our gain. I am glad that happened, but let's not pretend it was something we did.

So that model of getting rid of the ball quickly worked, and worked in a great way because it avoided the pass rush and caught our coverage in a "miscommunication". So that whole hang over excuse is nonsense.

The difference between this past year and SB winning year was the stuff dead on in my previous post. Scheme, coaching, injuries and the cherry on top was the scheme. The games we were winning with the cool comebacks weren't happening. The "miscommunication" that was occurring, where QBs were missing WRs. Well, they weren't missing any more. Guys like Dalton were hitting their wide the F. open WRs.

Offensively, injuries hurt us, and the 1 or 2 game mess ups we have every year happened more this year.




So what the better question is, to end this debate, before it goes round and round, is what needs to happen this year for all this to change? How can we get better and play consistently on both sides of the ball? With the division in flux, this would be our chance to seize it by the nut sack. How can we do this? We have all our coaches back yet again. Skins do, but their franchise Qb is broken and getting fixed. So that leaves us with the coaching consistency. So how can we use this to win the division and get into the playoffs?
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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It is interesting that we are looking at switching Tuck and JPP

http://www.giants101.com/2013/03/19/...-paul-in-2013/

Not only are we stopping the rotation policy, it looks like we are considering using JPP at LDE and Tuck at RDE.


Quote:
New York Giants Could Flip the Positions of Justin Tuck and Jason Pierre-Paul in 2013

March 19th, 2013 at 10:30 AM
By Kyle Langan

'Jason Pierre-Paul' photo (c) 2012, Mike Morbeck - license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ In a recent article addressing trends across the NFL in the National Football Post, author Dan Pompei dropped an interesting hint about a possible philosophical shift in the New York Giants defense in 2013.

Pompei stated that he had "heard" the Giants not only plan on using less of a defensive end rotation in 2013, but that Justin Tuck and Jason Pierre-Paul will switch sides.

It is expected that free agent Osi Umenyiora will not return to the Giants, so the team is planning to compensate by using its remaining pass rushers differently. Instead of playing a rotation in which three men split the snaps pretty evenly as the Giants did last year, I’m told Jason Pierre Paul and Justin Tuck will get the majority of the snaps. And Giants coaches don’t want the ends flipping sides as much. The early talk out of the Timex Performance Center is Pierre Paul may become a full-time left end, with Tuck concentrating on the right side.

Pierre-Paul registered merely 6.5 sacks in 2012, but proved to be a very effective edge defender against the run.

While teams did not have immense success running at Jason Pierre-Paul in 2012, the consistency with which teams were able to run the football against the Giants as a whole served only to wear down Pierre- Paul on pass- rushing downs.

By moving Pierre-Paul to the offensive right, it would force right tackles to deal with him full time. Generally right tackles are better run blockers and weaker pass blockers than left tackles. As for Justin Tuck, his pass rushing ability would be featured more, while he takes less of a beating on the defensive interior and in the run game.

Above all, this is the first step towards more simplicity on the defensive side of the football. The Giants had all types of communication problems in 2012 and their defensive "rotation" did not seem to yield the same rewards as in years past. Teams ran on pass rushing packages and passed against run blocking packages.

By putting the best players on the team in a position to succeed, on a full-time basis, teams may have a harder time picking and choosing what types of plays they want to run based on the personnel of the Giants.

This will be a situation worth monitoring the next several months.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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I don't like that idea. The only thing I can see is they are planning on moving on from Tuck (which is a good thing), and think that it's much easier finding a RE than LE who can pass rush so they hope JPP can develop at LE.

But JPP's natural position is RE, so I rather try to get a LE as a future replacement to Tuck and leave JPP at RE. I understand it's hard finding a LE though, so I can see where they're coming from.

Tuck is not a RE at all. Moving him there would be a disaster. And I have no problem moving DLmen around. It's an advantage on passing downs. I'll give up a 4 yard run over a 20 yard pass. That's the league we're in now. It's a passing league.
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