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Old 03-23-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
That couldn't be further from the truth. He played most of the year with the same Lis Franc injury that kept Joe Looney from doing ANYTHING at the Combine or his Pro Day last year, as well as the entire off-season program. I've been watching Jones for three years now dominant at every position Saban has placed him. RG, LT, and C. He has performed above the norm. People will continue to sleep on him and his athleticism and that's fine. But he's going to be one of the most sucessful O-Lineman to come out of this draft. A fully healthy Barrett Jones I'd take over any O-Lineman in this entrie draft. Watch any game from 2011 at LT and tell me he's strictly "phonebooth" type of center. Impossible. No other O-Lineman in the draft offers the versatility of Jones. He's capable of being a above average player at any position you put him on the line at the next level. How many college lineman win the Outland Trophy as a junior, than play OC for the first time the following year and win the Remington Award for the top center as a senior, playing virtually on one foot? And he's probably the most pro ready of any prospect I've seen in a good while. I hope every other GM ranks as lowly as most fans do. He'll fall right into Baalke's lap.
He played 7 quarters with the injury (which is still mind-blowing) but the fact you said "most of the year" makes me question if there is bias.

As for the comparisons with Looney... Looney didn't participate in the Combine or Pro-Days because he had surgery on the foot. Jones didn't participate in anything once he had surgery, either.

I just don't see the same player you do. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again, so I'm not about to argue opinion. You used the phrase "further from the truth." Objectivity is just that. He was absolutely dominant in college, and I think he'll be a good Pro. I just don't rank him #1 and I don't have him in the 1st.

If the 49ers select him, I'll happily pray I was completely wrong in my feelings towards him.


However, You have opened my mind the look at him differently, as I admit to only looking at him to fill the Center role with the 49ers. His versatility (although I still believe he isn't my favorite center) could certainly be more attractive, because the 49ers could certainly use a swing lineman.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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I think Hunter may be expendable with James on the roster.
You say that because your looking at their size, but they are two completely different types of runners. They complement each other. James is a better runner inside the tackles. Hunter excels outside. But both are still improving, still evolving. The great thing about having both is you don't lose anything with either of them on the field. It won't break the bank to retain Hunter. The RB market is always soft. I like what Hunter and James bring to the table and I think them as a tandem, will be one of our biggest strengths offensively going foward.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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He played 7 quarters with the injury (which is still mind-blowing) but the fact you said "most of the year" makes me question if there is bias.

As for the comparisons with Looney... Looney didn't participate in the Combine or Pro-Days because he had surgery on the foot. Jones didn't participate in anything once he had surgery, either.

I just don't see the same player you do. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again, so I'm not about to argue opinion. You used the phrase "further from the truth." Objectivity is just that. He was absolutely dominant in college, and I think he'll be a good Pro. I just don't rank him #1 and I don't have him in the 1st.

If the 49ers select him, I'll happily pray I was completely wrong in my feelings towards him.


However, You have opened my mind the look at him differently, as I admit to only looking at him to fill the Center role with the 49ers. His versatility (although I still believe he isn't my favorite center) could certainly be more attractive, because the 49ers could certainly use a swing lineman.
Yea, I jumped the gun on his injury. I thought it was over his last five games so that's my bad. But still, even playing on it a month after sustaining the injury is a feat in itself. Most NFL players are done as soon as its diagnosised. That just further proves his toughness. I just don't see how anybody can watch this kid....really digest his work, snap after snap, and not like him. Only real negative I can see is he not a real powerful guy. He won't blow guys off the line but its the NFL, that rarely happens anyway. But you watch his knee bend, watch his hands and his feet...very little wasted motion. And he just consistently, no mater what position he's playing, just walks guys right out of position to make plays. Haven't liked a O-Lineman as much as Jones since Iupati.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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We rarely just rush 3. Even in base personnel, one of the OLB has his hand in the dirt. We ran a lot of 4-3 stuff, we just do it with 3-4 personnel. Baalke is trying to acquire more even front guys for depth/rotation proposes. That's where the intrest in guys like Idonje and Dorsey stem from. I expect us to draft some 4-3 guys as well. Wouldn't shock me if this draft was very heavy on defense. Aside from Aldon, I don't see any more huge contracts being dolled out defensively. So when guys like Whitner, Brown, and Cowboy's contracts are up, they want their replacements already on the roster. The future money has probably already been allocated to re-signing a lot of the guys on offense. CK, U(Iupati), A. Davis, Crabs, Miller and Hunter will all be UFAs in a year or two.
Agreed. Really on offense all we need is a backup QB, #2 TE, and another WR. Maybe an OL for depth too but that depends on how they view Kilgore and Looney for the future. But none of them have to be high draft picks. While on defense we need 1 or 2 5-techs, 1 OLB/Pass Rushing DE for our Nickel sets, and anywhere from 2-4 defensive backs.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:07 AM    (permalink
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We have 9 WRs on the roster right now O_O
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:32 AM    (permalink
VAfy-ya
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We have 9 WRs on the roster right now O_O
True but how much quality is there? And two of those WRs are currenty rehabilitating major injuries. Still a lot of questions marks at that position outside of Crabs.

Out of our 14 picks, I realistically expect us to draft around 8-9 players. Out of those, I can see 3 offensive guys(TE, WR, O-Line). The rest I can see as defensive picks.

But it wouldn't suprise me in the least to see Baalke draft all 14 slots honestly. Harbaalke preaches competition at ever turn. It sure would be one competitive off-season and TC if you injected 14 hungry new faces onto this roster and said let the best 53 make the team. Not saying that will happen but knowing Harbaalke, anything is defintely possible.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Hunter's achilles should be brought into the equation. Difficult injury for a RB.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Draft wise -

I dont think that we'll use all 14 draft picks because at least a few of them wont make the roster and while they could be signed to the Practice Squad, they could also be signed by another team. I dont want to see our draft picks go to another team. In the end, I think that it'll be 8-12 with me leaning towards less than more.

The 34th overall draft pick will determine what happens the rest of the way because I do believe that if teams covet a guy that slips into the second round, I can easily see Baalke getting one of those teams to give up their 2014 first rounder for it.

Offensively, im looking at two positions. Center and TE. Looney is a backup guard and while Kilgore could eventually start at center, I dont think that it's going to happen especially if we keep Goodwin this year. Kilgore would thne go into the final year of his rookie contract as finally being a starter. I dont like that idea at all. I would much rather see us draft a center this year to start this year, release Goodwin and keep Kilgore as a backup. Could also use a backup at LT, RG and RT.

Other than center a TE, I think that it will be a defensive draft with a 3-4 DE, FS, SS, CB (two of them) and a situational pass rushing OLB.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Four round mock draft -

1 / 31 - C Barrett Jones
2 / 34 - DE Datone Jones (F/KC)
2 / 61 - CB Logan Ryan
3 / 74 - FS D.J. Swearinger (F/CAR)
3 / 93 - SS Duke Williams
4 / 128 - TE Levine Toilolo
4 / 131 - CB Tyrann Mathieu (comp)

Thoughts?
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Meh I would rather take a safety or DT and 31 depending on play ...
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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We have 9 WRs on the roster right now O_O
Yeah with Manningham and Boldin on expiring contracts you can't depend on either of them coming back. At that point you are down to Crabtree, Kyle, and a bunch of unknowns including Jenkins. It would be great to add one speed receiver with size to compliment Crabtree. Either Justin Hunter, DaRick Rodgers, or somebody like Marcus Davis later in the draft.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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People are seriously underrating Kilgore. Center is certainly not an early round need. That being said, I love Barrett Jones but mainly because of his adept versatility. It certainly has nothing to do with Kilgore's ability. I think he's going to be a stud and Jones is more of an insurance policy across the line.

And Dan, I really hope you don't envision Mathieu as a key contributor in the secondary. He will get killed at the NFL level.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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People are seriously underrating Kilgore. Center is certainly not an early round need. That being said, I love Barrett Jones but mainly because of his adept versatility. It certainly has nothing to do with Kilgore's ability. I think he's going to be a stud and Jones is more of an insurance policy across the line.

And Dan, I really hope you don't envision Mathieu as a key contributor in the secondary. He will get killed at the NFL level.
Its not that im underrating Kilgore, its just that with Goodwin still starting at center, I just dont see Kilgore being more than a backup plus if he wasnt to start until 2014, he would under the final year of his rookie contract. Center is definitely not a first round need but at the same time, if Jones is there, the value is there plus it solidifies the OL for the long term.

As for Mathieu, I see him being a special teamer and possible dime back. I love his ability to cause turnovers and if he can maintain that ability and get us some turnovers that we wouldnt normally get, I think that he's worth a late 4th rounder especially since it would be the compensation pick. People are mainly going by his size. Size isnt everything. Ability, skill, talent, heart, will, desire and determination is far more important, at least to me. I think that Mathieu is going to surprise a lot of people in a good way.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Four round mock draft -

1 / 31 - C Barrett Jones
2 / 34 - DE Datone Jones (F/KC)
2 / 61 - CB Logan Ryan
3 / 74 - FS D.J. Swearinger (F/CAR)
3 / 93 - SS Duke Williams
4 / 128 - TE Levine Toilolo
4 / 131 - CB Tyrann Mathieu (comp)

Thoughts?
#31) I'm torn when it comes to Barrett Jones. Without being able to see the team practice I'm not sure how any of us can have an informed opinion of Kilgore's readiness and ability since he never sees the field. I hope Kilgore is developing into a stud behind the scenes but am I expecting that? I don't know...

As far as your other picks:

#34) It's hard to evaluate without seeing who else is available of course but if Datone Jones is available at #31 I don't get cute and wait till #34, I take him right away @ 31. This is your best pick of the draft imo.

#61) Logan Ryan: I'm just OK with this pick, he's not really the corner I envision us walking away from this draft with but he is a decent value here. I'd like to see what WR's were available here though.

#74) Freaking love it. I have a man crush on this guy. He can play either safety position and hits like Mike Tyson (circa 1988). Even if you think this guy can't play FS (which I disagree), he is still worth drafting because Donte Whitner is on the last year of his contract and I don't see him coming back.

#93) Duke Willams is a solid pick here. I'd prefer to spend this pick on a Jordan Reed possibly though.

#128) I like Levine a lot, I think he can develop into a stud blocker, red zone target, and even stretch the field a little. Lattimore or Matt Scott are my favorite guys to look at in this slot.

#131) Great pick but he wont last that long. I think Tyrann will come off a lot sooner than a lot of people think. Yeah he's a risk and he's short but the kid is special.

All in all good draft in my opinion. You filled all of our holes and you did it with some very good players. I loved the 2 safety approach in round 3.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Meh I would rather take a safety or DT and 31 depending on play ...
Safeties are real deep, I think we can wait until #61 or #74 to grab one.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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People are mainly going by his size. Size isnt everything. Ability, skill, talent, heart, will, desire and determination is far more important, at least to me. I think that Mathieu is going to surprise a lot of people in a good way.
First time I've heard those terms applied to a guy that was kicked off an elite college program for multiple drug offenses. I guess you left off leadership too lol.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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tweaked my mock draft slightly:


1. desmond trufant - cb

2. jonathan cyprien - s

3. sylvester williams - dt

3. da'rick rogers - wr

3. david queensberry - c

4. nick kasa - te

5. aj klien - ilb

5. christine michael - rb

6. brian winters - ot/g

6. matt scots - qb

7. chris jones - dt

7. malliciah goodman - de

7. dustin hopkins - k

7. james wilson - g
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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To begin with start with getting names like they should. Who the **** is Matt Scots? If you mean Matt Scott he will be gone long before we pick. Then you have us taking 3 o-linemen. With the starting line in tact and Looney en Kilgore on the roster the chance we take 3 is very small.

Then we have the following picks:

1
2
2
3
3
4
4
5
5
6
6
7
7
7

So no 3 thirds and no 4 sevenths. But 2 seconds and 2 fourths.
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justone2 View Post
To begin with start with getting names like they should. Who the **** is Matt Scots? If you mean Matt Scott he will be gone long before we pick. Then you have us taking 3 o-linemen. With the starting line in tact and Looney en Kilgore on the roster the chance we take 3 is very small.

Then we have the following picks:

1
2
2
3
3
4
4
5
5
6
6
7
7
7

So no 3 thirds and no 4 sevenths. But 2 seconds and 2 fourths.
To be exact.

1) #31- Round 1
2) #34- Round 2 (Thanks Alex)
3) #61- Round 2
4) #74- Round 3 (From Panthers)
5) #93- Round 3
6) #128- Round 4
7) #131- Round 4 (Comp)
8) #157- Round 5 (From Colts)
9) #164- Round 5
10) #180- Round 6 (From Dolphins)
11) #227- Round 7 (Thanks Taylor Mays)
12) #237- Round 7
13) #246- Round 7 (Comp)
14) #252- Round 7 (Comp)

We all knew what he meant with Matt Scott, no need to get insulting about typos, it happens to the best of us. For instance you just made two typos; 1)"Intact" is one word....
2)"en" is Spanish for "in"....
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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And there were more typos that Matt Scots... it's not important.

I'm really starting to wonder about David Quessenberry. Seems a little like a poor man's Barrett Jones. Main difference being Jones was a top recruit at Alabama and Quessenberry was a walk-on at San Jose State.

I also don't know how simple of a transition from Tackle to Center we should assume it is. Jones proved he could do it, Quessenberry is just a projection.


At this point, I think it's far more important to address a backup up swing tackle than it is to address a center..
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shupp View Post
To be exact.

1) #31- Round 1
2) #34- Round 2 (Thanks Alex)
3) #61- Round 2
4) #74- Round 3 (From Panthers)
5) #93- Round 3
6) #128- Round 4
7) #131- Round 4 (Comp)
8) #157- Round 5 (From Colts)
9) #164- Round 5
10) #180- Round 6 (From Dolphins)
11) #227- Round 7 (Thanks Taylor Mays)
12) #237- Round 7
13) #246- Round 7 (Comp)
14) #252- Round 7 (Comp)

We all knew what he meant with Matt Scott, no need to get insulting about typos, it happens to the best of us. For instance you just made two typos; 1)"Intact" is one word....
2)"en" is Spanish for "in"....
I will say my mistakes where more because of language than of typos. It just annoys me when someone writes names wrong because it's easy to look them up when you are in doubt. For the picks i forgot we traded a 6th for Boldin had a seventh in mind for some strange reason.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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First time I've heard those terms applied to a guy that was kicked off an elite college program for multiple drug offenses. I guess you left off leadership too lol.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Scott posted round 2 of his latest mock draft. Has us taking John Jenkins at 34 and David Amerson at 61.

Ertz, Jenkins, and Amerson so far.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Damn, I wish I was a photoshop guy. I'd drop T.O. in there along with Kenny Phillips, Mike Wallace, Dashon Goldson, Tyrann Mathieu, Mike Holmgren, Jon Gruden, and Mike Lombardi.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Scott posted round 2 of his latest mock draft. Has us taking John Jenkins at 34 and David Amerson at 61.

Ertz, Jenkins, and Amerson so far.
I just mocked Amerson to us @ # 61 a few minutes ago in our 7 round thread. I know Amerson can play a little stiff but with a year to develop I think he could be a great weapon to use against some of these huge WR's we go up against. He also has the ability to switch to FS down the road, he is very good in run support also.

As far as Jenkins, I don't think any of us are too big on that pick.
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