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Old 03-25-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
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Interview process and background check is what killed Noel's stock. And just because he had a lot of catches in college doesn't mean he could of been effective as a receiver, most of those were just screen passes.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Don't get all the poormouthing of Tavon Austin.

I think Austin is going to be an amazing pro at the next level.
Probably my biggest con on him is that to be effective you have to give him the ball in completely open space. This is different from Percy Harvin.

I feel like if you press Austin at the line in the pros, he is done. I don't think he can break free and I don't think he'll make the play with a defender draped on him. Percy Harvin is such a tough little bugger, he can break the press and he'll really battle defenders. I also see a lot of plays where Austin is looking downfield and gets waxed as he goes side to side too often; that's going to be painful in the NFL when a 250 pound line backer unloads on him at full speed.

Plus Harvin was considerably more explosive and consistent in a much better defensive conference than Austin. How did Austin only have an 11.3 yards per reception this year despite a lot of 40+ plays? That strikes me as odd. Harvin was at 16.1 his final year, up from 14.5 and 12.6 his soph and fresh years.

Also, just to state it one more time. He's tiny. Really small. He looks like a high school player on his college tape and he might be maxed out without losing his speed.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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I feel like if you press Austin at the line in the pros, he is done. I don't think he can break free and I don't think he'll make the play with a defender draped on him. Percy Harvin is such a tough little bugger, he can break the press and he'll really battle defenders. I also see a lot of plays where Austin is looking downfield and gets waxed as he goes side to side too often; that's going to be painful in the NFL when a 250 pound line backer unloads on him at full speed.
Once again... he shouldn't be compared to Harvin. I suppose it's inevitiable that he is going to be, though. I pulled this part of your post out specifically as I watched him his entire career and hardly ever remember him getting "waxed" on a lot of plays. Can you point out some plays in which this happened? I think why he's been able to stay healthy his whole career is due to the fact that he knows how to avoid the big hit.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Interview process and background check is what killed Noel's stock. And just because he had a lot of catches in college doesn't mean he could of been effective as a receiver, most of those were just screen passes.
I can agree with the background part if your post. But if that was the case for him going undrafted I guess we can assume tyrann Mathieu will go undrafted? Devine was never caught doing anything wrong that I can remember. Also take a look at the footage in this thread, he lines ups at WR many times. Geez. Now I'm off topic.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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Probably my biggest con on him is that to be effective you have to give him the ball in completely open space. This is different from Percy Harvin.

I feel like if you press Austin at the line in the pros, he is done. I don't think he can break free and I don't think he'll make the play with a defender draped on him. Percy Harvin is such a tough little bugger, he can break the press and he'll really battle defenders. I also see a lot of plays where Austin is looking downfield and gets waxed as he goes side to side too often; that's going to be painful in the NFL when a 250 pound line backer unloads on him at full speed.

Plus Harvin was considerably more explosive and consistent in a much better defensive conference than Austin. How did Austin only have an 11.3 yards per reception this year despite a lot of 40+ plays? That strikes me as odd. Harvin was at 16.1 his final year, up from 14.5 and 12.6 his soph and fresh years.

Also, just to state it one more time. He's tiny. Really small. He looks like a high school player on his college tape and he might be maxed out without losing his speed.

It sounds like you have a bias against Austin. Smallish WRs beat press coverage all the time in the pros, they just use quickness instead of arm pressing a DB.

Also Austin had significantly more touches than Harvin ever did at UF, so it's hard for me to look at a guy who never had more than 58 catches in any season at UF to a guy who averaged over 100 catches two seasons in a row.

I do agree you would think Tavon's yds/catch would be higher, but I think that's more a byproduct of WVU using Austin to both move the chains on shorter routes and as a deep threat downfield.

Anyway, I don't think there's much comparison between Devine and Austin.
Devine was never a 4.2-4.3 guy on gamedays for the Mountaineers despite what he ran at his pro day. In fact it was always surprising to see Devine get run down occasionally by pursuit downfield.

If I were an NFL team, I don't look at Austin as a #1 WR, I see him more as a #2 and slot WR who can produce like a #1.

Once he gets a little bigger hopefully and stronger in the pros, I think Tavon the player will be somewhere in between Steve Smith and Percy Harvin.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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LOL @ those that cant see the obvious special ability of Austin. The kid is dripping with "it" factor, and traits which the gimmick versions of him simply dont possess. First off, the bigger the game is, the better he plays. His best games come against the best teams he faces, and he has absolutely demolished some legit teams with legit defenses. He's not one of those receivers who has a 1,200 yard season, but upon further expectation is revealed to have had 200 yard games against the Bowling Green's and Colorado State's of the world, while dropping a 3 reception, 40 yard game against a Top 15 school. That matters a lot. What else? There is some legitimate strength in his game...not in the sense that he's going to out-muscle a tackle or run anyone over, but in the fact that he has proven that he can handle a huge workload and not only stay healthy, but show zero physical decline. Take a serious look at how many touches this kid has handled at ~175 pounds, he's never freaking injured. He touched the ball 33 times against Oklahoma. 33. You wont see a bruising runningback take that many touches in today's game. I'm a Bills fans so I've seen a lot of Roscoe Parrish...despite only a 5-pound difference between the two, there is a giant difference between say Parrish, and Austin in terms of physicality. Not only is Austin visibly better built, but the kid has a natural ability to minimize the blows he takes, which is why he can handle so many touches and yet stay healthy. When I saw Parrish play I felt like there was a realistic chance that he would be literally broken anytime he touched the ball...to no surprise we're talking about a guy who suffered a collapsed lung while at Miami as a result of a hit. I dont get that feeling at all with Austin.

The physical tools are obvious: elite change of direction skills, elite field vision, elite ability to hit speed quickly. But on top of that the kid is a relentless worker who has a real ability to affect the game around him. I dont understand the supposed knocks against him in 2013 where the NFL is more or less a passing league with greater emphasis towards multiple offenses, teams are in 3-receiver sets so often that the "just a slot receiver" argument is almost irrelevant. Who exactly is going to cover Austin in the slot? You can line him off the line of scrimmage all day long, and his elite quickness will make him a nightmare to jam. The NFL limiting what DBs can get away with makes it even harder to defend a player like Austin. You can just do so much with him. What do you do when he lines up in the backfield? I can only imagine what a creative offensive mind could accomplish with a combo like Austin and CJ Spiller.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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Woah?! This is a serious post?

C'mon man, serious. Screw the stats, look at the tape!

Austin is special. Is he small? Sure. But he has a thicker build than most people think, he is tough, fast obviously but has an outstanding "stop-start" ability similar to Darren Sproles, but he is faster in the open field than Sproles (yes that is fast!).

And the argument that he needs to be in space, um...have you watched the NFL lately? This league now is all about spacing and matchups. The days of "He is an X, he is Y, he is slot guy" and so on is obsolete. It's about motions, finding the best matchups and exploiting those. Austin can play on the parameter, he can play inside, crossing routes, screens, out the back field, read option, end arounds, you name it.

I would love to see him with a creative offensive mind like Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Chip Kelly or Bruce Arians.

Austin is one of the few players in this draft I just feel very good and confident about.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Woah?! This is a serious post?

C'mon man, serious. Screw the stats, look at the tape!

Austin is special. Is he small? Sure. But he has a thicker build than most people think, he is tough, fast obviously but has an outstanding "stop-start" ability similar to Darren Sproles, but he is faster in the open field than Sproles (yes that is fast!).

And the argument that he needs to be in space, um...have you watched the NFL lately? This league now is all about spacing and matchups. The days of "He is an X, he is Y, he is slot guy" and so on is obsolete. It's about motions, finding the best matchups and exploiting those. Austin can play on the parameter, he can play inside, crossing routes, screens, out the back field, read option, end arounds, you name it.

I would love to see him with a creative offensive mind like Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Chip Kelly or Bruce Arians.

Austin is one of the few players in this draft I just feel very good and confident about.
Your argument just doesn't hold up, Sproles is 190 lber at 5'6", Austin is in the 5'8" range, 2 inches shorter and almost 20 lbs lighter and doesn't have a thick build, he is rail thin by NFL standards.
Yes, there is a place in the NFL for him because of his speed and quickness but it is strictly in the slot position where these attributes shine. On the outside he would have to deal with speedy, quick CB's who are stronger and bigger than him and he would have a great deal of difficulty handling hand fighting for the ball. When you add in the possibilities that one solid hit would likely end his career, it becomes extremely difficult to imagine any team in the top 20 picks taking him. He has a shot at 21-32 but round 2 is still a high probability.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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LOL @ those that cant see the obvious special ability of Austin. The kid is dripping with "it" factor, and traits which the gimmick versions of him simply dont possess. First off, the bigger the game is, the better he plays. His best games come against the best teams he faces, and he has absolutely demolished some legit teams with legit defenses. He's not one of those receivers who has a 1,200 yard season, but upon further expectation is revealed to have had 200 yard games against the Bowling Green's and Colorado State's of the world, while dropping a 3 reception, 40 yard game against a Top 15 school. That matters a lot. What else? There is some legitimate strength in his game...not in the sense that he's going to out-muscle a tackle or run anyone over, but in the fact that he has proven that he can handle a huge workload and not only stay healthy, but show zero physical decline. Take a serious look at how many touches this kid has handled at ~175 pounds, he's never freaking injured. He touched the ball 33 times against Oklahoma. 33. You wont see a bruising runningback take that many touches in today's game. I'm a Bills fans so I've seen a lot of Roscoe Parrish...despite only a 5-pound difference between the two, there is a giant difference between say Parrish, and Austin in terms of physicality. Not only is Austin visibly better built, but the kid has a natural ability to minimize the blows he takes, which is why he can handle so many touches and yet stay healthy. When I saw Parrish play I felt like there was a realistic chance that he would be literally broken anytime he touched the ball...to no surprise we're talking about a guy who suffered a collapsed lung while at Miami as a result of a hit. I dont get that feeling at all with Austin.

The physical tools are obvious: elite change of direction skills, elite field vision, elite ability to hit speed quickly. But on top of that the kid is a relentless worker who has a real ability to affect the game around him. I dont understand the supposed knocks against him in 2013 where the NFL is more or less a passing league with greater emphasis towards multiple offenses, teams are in 3-receiver sets so often that the "just a slot receiver" argument is almost irrelevant. Who exactly is going to cover Austin in the slot? You can line him off the line of scrimmage all day long, and his elite quickness will make him a nightmare to jam. The NFL limiting what DBs can get away with makes it even harder to defend a player like Austin. You can just do so much with him. What do you do when he lines up in the backfield? I can only imagine what a creative offensive mind could accomplish with a combo like Austin and CJ Spiller.
What you are forgetting, is that college CB's who generally have far less speed and quickness than a pro CB, tend to play off of receivers and allow them free range in running patterns. for a prospect like Austin, this is his dreamworld but unfortunately, pro defenders don't play that way. That is why Austin will be strictly a slot receiver where pressing the receiver is limited, allowing his athletic skills to come into play but on the outside, he would definitely struggle with hand guarding as he lacks the strength to compete.
You are also forgetting that pro CB's have elite quickness and solid speed to mirror Austin and it will allow them to occassionally jam him. Yes, in the slot, jamming him will be far more difficult but that limits him to playing that position.
His height and weight is definitely a liability and that is never going to change but I strongly believe he can be a very effective receiver out of the slot, but he will also always be 1 solid hit from a career ending injury.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Your argument just doesn't hold up, Sproles is 190 lber at 5'6", Austin is in the 5'8" range, 2 inches shorter and almost 20 lbs lighter and doesn't have a thick build, he is rail thin by NFL standards.
Yes, there is a place in the NFL for him because of his speed and quickness but it is strictly in the slot position where these attributes shine. On the outside he would have to deal with speedy, quick CB's who are stronger and bigger than him and he would have a great deal of difficulty handling hand fighting for the ball. When you add in the possibilities that one solid hit would likely end his career, it becomes extremely difficult to imagine any team in the top 20 picks taking him. He has a shot at 21-32 but round 2 is still a high probability.

If Austin ends up with a smart coach he wont be "strictly" a slot guy.

People keep bringing up "but can he beat press?!" but if you watch NFL offenses today you would know there are plenty of ways to beat press schematically without physically putting them man to man. I wouldnt be shocked if he goes as high as 15. It's a new day fellas.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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devine was pound for pound the strongest human ive ever seen...ever. Shame he quit like he did after going undrafted
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Sorry. I have seen Tavon ran down from behind before. Plus, more than pure speed goes into being tracked down. What angle did the defender take? Did the defender do his job? I'll be amazed if he is a number 2. He will put stats but so does Wes Welker

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Old 03-26-2013, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Sorry. I have seen Tavon ran down from behind before. I'll be amazed if he is a number 2. He will put stats but so does Wes Welker


This is the play I always think of when people bring up Tavon Austin. He literally put a gear on that nobody else could have. I don't think many people have caught him from behind.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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Sorry. I have seen Tavon ran down from behind before. I'll be amazed if he is a number 2. He will put stats but so does Wes Welker
I also have never seen anyone with better stop-start acceleration and speed as Lamichael James. James is clearly not doing in the NFL what he did in NCAA. Its for that reason alone I cant see these type of players as 1st-rounders. They all have talent but its a lot different at the next level.

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Old 03-26-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kingdomcome View Post
Sorry. I have seen Tavon ran down from behind before. I'll be amazed if he is a number 2. He will put stats but so does Wes Welker
Are you bothered because you feel Austin is being unfairly overrated??

Now he's no better athletically than Wes Welker??
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I also have never seen anyone with better stop-start acceleration and speed as Lamichael James. James is clearly not doing in the NFL what he did in NCAA. Its for that reason alone I cant see these type of players as 1st-rounders. They all have talent but its a lot different at the next level.
I think people are missing the point that Austin's timed speed at the combine is better than LaMichael James. Better than Noel Devine. Better than Percy Harvin.

Also two of the aforementioned are primarily RBs, not WRs.
For some I guess it's just about who Austin reminds you of, other guys who weren't special in the pros.
I think Tavon Austin is a better runner overall, better athlete and his skills translate better to WR in the pros than James and Devine did as RBs.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I think people are missing the point that Austin's timed speed at the combine is better than LaMichael James. Better than Noel Devine. Better than Percy Harvin.

Also two of the aforementioned are primarily RBs, not WRs.
For some I guess it's just about who Austin reminds you of, other guys who weren't special in the pros.
I think Tavon Austin is a better runner overall, better athlete and his skills translate better to WR in the pros than James and Devine did as RBs.
I think you are on to something here. It is easier to get you WR into space then your RB.
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