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Old 03-26-2013, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I gave up on House of Cards 5 episodes in. Just don't like any of the characters. I'm not sure I understand the praise for the show. I suppose the plot itself is interesting and smart but without one damn likable character I can't enjoy it.

That's not to say the characters are bad but I feel like they're almost all scummy in some way. You need to give me at least couple characters to empathize with and to root for.

That and Spacey/Underwood are SO dry as a character.

Also, I know I've said this before but I just get annoyed when TV shows on HBO/Showtime/etc. go nuts because they are not subject to FCC regulations. Maybe I'm a prude or something but I just feel like when writers have that opportunity to swear, put in lame sex scenes, etc. they go all out just because they can. Personally, I hold TV writing to a higher standard. This isn't some discussion between frat buddies. Many of these characters are dropping F-bombs in the most absurd places and situations. It really takes away from the power of the language and art. Look at Parks and Rec. I understand it's censored but when they drop a swear it's usually hilarious/important and really adds to emphasize a point. Same with sex scenes. They very rarely add anything to the value of the show. So we get to see a crappy sex scene that does very little to depict a point. If I wanted to see something like this I'd watch porn. In some instances I understand the importance of it, like in Game of Thrones there is a lot of significance to it. Other than that, it's just sloppy writing. Same with swearing. Let's cover up crappy dialogue by dropping F-bomb's every sentence. So weak.

But meh, I gave it a shot. I think I'm going to give Sherlock and Dr. Who a start though.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:15 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I gave up on House of Cards 5 episodes in. Just don't like any of the characters. I'm not sure I understand the praise for the show. I suppose the plot itself is interesting and smart but without one damn likable character I can't enjoy it.

That's not to say the characters are bad but I feel like they're almost all scummy in some way. You need to give me at least couple characters to empathize with and to root for.

That and Spacey/Underwood are SO dry as a character.

Also, I know I've said this before but I just get annoyed when TV shows on HBO/Showtime/etc. go nuts because they are not subject to FCC regulations. Maybe I'm a prude or something but I just feel like when writers have that opportunity to swear, put in lame sex scenes, etc. they go all out just because they can. Personally, I hold TV writing to a higher standard. This isn't some discussion between frat buddies. Many of these characters are dropping F-bombs in the most absurd places and situations. It really takes away from the power of the language and art. Look at Parks and Rec. I understand it's censored but when they drop a swear it's usually hilarious/important and really adds to emphasize a point. Same with sex scenes. They very rarely add anything to the value of the show. So we get to see a crappy sex scene that does very little to depict a point. If I wanted to see something like this I'd watch porn. In some instances I understand the importance of it, like in Game of Thrones there is a lot of significance to it. Other than that, it's just sloppy writing. Same with swearing. Let's cover up crappy dialogue by dropping F-bomb's every sentence. So weak.

But meh, I gave it a shot. I think I'm going to give Sherlock and Dr. Who a start though.
The show is fantastic. The characters are very scummy, but most are charismatic. The writing is fantastic. The acting is fantastic for the most part.

The characters have clear motivations, clear actions, and clear flaws. And a bunch of well crafted innuendo. Almost everything makes sense, which is extraordinarily difficult to do.

Everything in this show is very plausible, and likely not at all different from reality in the power political sphere.

WRT cursing, people swear a great deal in the real world. We aren't supposed to, but we do. It's in schools, it's at home, it's in the work place, it's out socially. About the only place it's not happening is at church.

I think that it's always been this way, especially in a society with free speech, and not an indication of the degradation of modern society.

Poor writing with swearing is still poor writing. Poor writing without swearing is still poor writing. One may be more crass than the other, but swear words don't obfuscate the effluence of malformed composition.

Overusing any word as a crutch is poor form, and maybe it's just the repetitive use of vulgar ones that makes it more egregious an offense to you as compared to being inundated with light, fluffy ones.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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The show is fantastic. The characters are very scummy, but most are charismatic. The writing is fantastic. The acting is fantastic for the most part.

The characters have clear motivations, clear actions, and clear flaws. And a bunch of well crafted innuendo. Almost everything makes sense, which is extraordinarily difficult to do.

Everything in this show is very plausible, and likely not at all different from reality in the power political sphere.

WRT cursing, people swear a great deal in the real world. We aren't supposed to, but we do. It's in schools, it's at home, it's in the work place, it's out socially. About the only place it's not happening is at church.

I think that it's always been this way, especially in a society with free speech, and not an indication of the degradation of modern society.

Poor writing with swearing is still poor writing. Poor writing without swearing is still poor writing. One may be more crass than the other, but swear words don't obfuscate the effluence of malformed composition.

Overusing any word as a crutch is poor form, and maybe it's just the repetitive use of vulgar ones that makes it more egregious an offense to you as compared to being inundated with light, fluffy ones.
To your first point about the show, I agree to an extent. I think it's got pretty good writing and a well-thought out plot. I just don't find myself caring to continue because all the characters have zero empathetic qualities. I'm more of a person who loves amazing characters than amazing plot. I mean, I like both and value both, but lovable, empathetic and wonderfully acted characters can carry a show.

My second part deals with the issues of writing and language, but also relates to the first point. Honestly, I feel like most of the characters aren't realistic. So everybody is just a scum bag? That's really how it seems. Now, I've seen five episodes, which is a fair sample size. I stuck with it because of the plot but without one damn likable character I can't see it through. I feel the show has just went too far with the "bad people doing things for good" theme we see in a lot of shows. They just want to make everyone a bad ass with little regard for moral implications. That's just not realistic, and it's not enjoyable to me as a viewer. Give me SOMEONE to care about. Without that, I lose interest personally.

As you said, swearing is not uncommon, but to pretend it's EVERYWHERE at every moment is absurd. I'm not just referring to House of Cards when I say this, but it does demonstrate the point. Mara's character is dropping F-bomb's in front of her boss, and higher ranked co-workers? Really? And these are journalists, people who are basically trained to never say anything offensive. I'm not trying to characterize my own experience and say it should fit everything but I've worked with a lot of journalism people and they are typically very eloquently spoken and do very little swearing.

I do think it's lazy writing. Maybe I have high standards because I'm an English grad and it's unfair to compare some TV show writer to greats like Hemingway, Dickinson, Thoreau, etc. but when I see what they're able to accomplish with almost no "offensive" language it makes me question if the writers just couldn't find a better way to write it. Hence the laziness/poor writing mention. Also, other writers that are limited by what language they can use on network/cable TV are still able to have great, realistic dialogue without the use of swearing.

NOW, that said, around certain family and friends I'll readily swear, but 99% of the time I almost never do. I feel most people are like that too. I rarely hear my co-workers swear, rarely hear students or professors in class swear, rarely hear a constant dialogue of swears in passing conversation.

That's why, in casual/regular conversation (not with friends), when someone drops an F-bomb or whatever, it adds extreme significance and emphasis. Same to me goes with TV shows. When I hear a swear, it immediately alerts me that something is significant or more meaningful.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm convinced forenci is actually some kind of catholic girl/woman(doubtful any sort of adult reference) or some weird ****... you're gripes with most things generally disturb me
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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I will say this, I completely agree with Forenci on the characters thing. Every time I start to like a character, they do something stupid that makes me hate them. Pretty sure Freddy is the only character I haven't disliked at one point or another.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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Also, I know I've said this before but I just get annoyed when TV shows on HBO/Showtime/etc. go nuts because they are not subject to FCC regulations. Maybe I'm a prude or something but I just feel like when writers have that opportunity to swear, put in lame sex scenes, etc. they go all out just because they can. Personally, I hold TV writing to a higher standard. This isn't some discussion between frat buddies. Many of these characters are dropping F-bombs in the most absurd places and situations. It really takes away from the power of the language and art. Look at Parks and Rec. I understand it's censored but when they drop a swear it's usually hilarious/important and really adds to emphasize a point. Same with sex scenes. They very rarely add anything to the value of the show. So we get to see a crappy sex scene that does very little to depict a point. If I wanted to see something like this I'd watch porn. In some instances I understand the importance of it, like in Game of Thrones there is a lot of significance to it. Other than that, it's just sloppy writing. Same with swearing. Let's cover up crappy dialogue by dropping F-bomb's every sentence. So weak.

But meh, I gave it a shot. I think I'm going to give Sherlock and Dr. Who a start though.
I have not yet watched House of Cards, so I can't comment on the show itself. But I do agree with this point. All too often, people use swearing and nudity as a crutch. Like in comedies. They add a profanity to the punchline because they know it will get a cheap laugh. If your dialogue or joke won't work without the unnecessary F-Bomb, then get new writers who don't have to resort to cheap tricks. And shows on HBO and Showtime, most of the time the gratuitous nudity is just another cheap ploy to get more guys to watch the show.

Forenci, watch Sherlock, it's good. Never watched Dr. Who.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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I will say this, I completely agree with Forenci on the characters thing. Every time I start to like a character, they do something stupid that makes me hate them. Pretty sure Freddy is the only character I haven't disliked at one point or another.
That is a higher level point they are trying to get across. These are charismatic people. You want to like them, you find yourself liking them. But then you realize that they are addicted to power, they crave it, and will do anything to get more of it.

This summarizes DC quite well, IMO.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Kate Mara keeps me watching House of Cards. I think she's the cat's meow.

She looks smoking hot in that white dress.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Kate Mara keeps me watching House of Cards. I think she's the cat's meow.

She looks smoking hot in that white dress.
She is great. Spacey and Wright are brilliant as the leads imo and I know I keep saying it Corey Stoll as Peter Russo makes the show. One of the better performances I have seen on television in a while.

I think the arguments that Forenci has been making are crazy but he is entitled to his opinion. It is very hard to sympathize with the characters but to me that is what makes them real. Slowly as the show progresses more layers of the characters get peeled off, they are very fleshed out and brilliantly written and performed.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Kate Mara keeps me watching House of Cards. I think she's the cat's meow.

She looks smoking hot in that white dress.
She either looks great or she was abused by a 2x4.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Real talk, House of Cards is a solid show that is worth the watch but it isn't groundbreaking and it never will be. If you want a solid political type show, go for it, but don't go in expecting to be blown away. You won't be.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Real talk, House of Cards is a solid show that is worth the watch but it isn't groundbreaking and it never will be. If you want a solid political type show, go for it, but don't go in expecting to be blown away. You won't be.
I think you are in the minority on this one.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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I think you are in the minority on this one.
I'm fine being in the minority here. There is literally nothing this show does better than The West Wing. Not a single thing.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm fine being in the minority here. There is literally nothing this show does better than The West Wing. Not a single thing.
Imo it does every single thing better than The West Wing besides having likeable characters but we can agree to disagree. I just feel I have to point out that many people have been and will continue to be blown away by House of Cards. No need for you to keep trying to dissuade people from watching.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:35 PM    (permalink
vidae
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Imo it does every single thing better than The West Wing besides having likeable characters but we can agree to disagree. I just feel I have to point out that many people have been and will continue to be blown away by House of Cards. No need for you to keep trying to dissuade people from watching.
We will have to agree to disagree. House of Cards isn't on the same level as the worst West Wing season. None of the House of Cards characters are likeable or interesting at all, and the plot is boring.

I just feel like I have to point out that many people have been and will continue to be underwhelmed by House of Cards.

:)
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:40 PM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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I'm fine being in the minority here. There is literally nothing this show does better than The West Wing. Not a single thing.
You need to change your name to "The Incorrect Contrarian".

The west wing is a good show. But it treated everything with sugary sweet kids gloves and spewed every story as if woven in some Politically Correct fantasyland. Also, it was overly formulaic.

It was "serious drama" for fans of shows like two and a half men.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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You need to change your name to "The Incorrect Contrarian".

The west wing is a good show. But it treated everything with sugary sweet kids gloves and spewed every story as if woven in some Politically Correct fantasyland. Also, it was overly formulaic.

It was "serious drama" for fans of shows like two and a half men.
There is so much wrong with your post that I'm not sure how to start. The fact that you put The West Wing in the same sentence as Two and a Half Men is all the proof I need to know you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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We will have to agree to disagree. House of Cards isn't on the same level as the worst West Wing season. None of the House of Cards characters are likeable or interesting at all, and the plot is boring.

I just feel like I have to point out that many people have been and will continue to be underwhelmed by House of Cards.

:)
So far that large group of people disappointed by the show is you and Forenci.

For the record Peter Russo is far more interesting than every character on The West Wing. Faaaaaar more interesting.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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There is so much wrong with your post that I'm not sure how to start. The fact that you put The West Wing in the same sentence as Two and a Half Men is all the proof I need to know you have no idea what you're talking about.
He may have gone a tad too far with the Two and a Half men comment but he is completely right about everything else.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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There is so much wrong with your post that I'm not sure how to start. The fact that you put The West Wing in the same sentence as Two and a Half Men is all the proof I need to know you have no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry, I was being a dick. I liked the west wing. It is just a way idealized and soft drama compared to HoC.

HoC depicts sociopaths, which many politicians and executives are. I can totally understand not wanting to watch that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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So far that large group of people disappointed by the show is you and Forenci.

For the record Peter Russo is far more interesting than every character on The West Wing. Faaaaaar more interesting.
You do realize that more people than just NFLDCers watch the show, right? I mean.. you do know that?
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, I was being a dick. I liked the west wing. It is just a way idealized and soft drama compared to HoC.

HoC depicts sociopaths, which many politicians and executives are. I can totally understand not wanting to watch that.
I don't dislike House of Cards, I just don't think it comes anywhere near the quality of The West Wing, and with the cast and staff they have, they should have achieved a lot more than a "meh" show.
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