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Old 03-25-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Love the FA moves. Love the majority of the draft. We have a lot of common ground between my upcoming mock and yours :)

One place we differ is our opinion of Swearinger. I love him as a prospect but I see him as a SS and not fully capable of playing Cover-1. I do like the hitting ability and him coming forward to deliver a hit. He's pretty stiff as well which really will limit his range in the back-end. He certainly fits the mold for the SS in a Kiffin defense though.

One of my favorite picks in that draft would be David Bass I think he's going to be a beast. Project him as the future SDE one characteristic that is super tough to teach is the ability to get off your block and swat passes at the LOS. I'm not sure there is a better prospect in that regard than Bass in this draft.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Love the FA moves. Love the majority of the draft. We have a lot of common ground between my upcoming mock and yours :)

One place we differ is our opinion of Swearinger. I love him as a prospect but I see him as a SS and not fully capable of playing Cover-1. I do like the hitting ability and him coming forward to deliver a hit. He's pretty stiff as well which really will limit his range in the back-end. He certainly fits the mold for the SS in a Kiffin defense though.

One of my favorite picks in that draft would be David Bass I think he's going to be a beast. Project him as the future SDE one characteristic that is super tough to teach is the ability to get off your block and swat passes at the LOS. I'm not sure there is a better prospect in that regard than Bass in this draft.
I think Swearinger is an interchangeable safety. He's got the athleticism to play cover-1, I think it comes down more to reactions/knowledge.

My biggest thing with him is the inconsistency where he'll make huge plays that put him on par with any other safety in the class, then he'll do some head scratching things.

I'll watch a half and I think meh. Then I watch the 2nd half and think he is just as good as any of the other safeties in this class. Everytime I rewatch him my opinion shifts. Very tough read for me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Love the FA moves. Love the majority of the draft. We have a lot of common ground between my upcoming mock and yours :)

One place we differ is our opinion of Swearinger. I love him as a prospect but I see him as a SS and not fully capable of playing Cover-1. I do like the hitting ability and him coming forward to deliver a hit. He's pretty stiff as well which really will limit his range in the back-end. He certainly fits the mold for the SS in a Kiffin defense though.

One of my favorite picks in that draft would be David Bass I think he's going to be a beast. Project him as the future SDE one characteristic that is super tough to teach is the ability to get off your block and swat passes at the LOS. I'm not sure there is a better prospect in that regard than Bass in this draft.
I have Swearinger at SS behind Church. But I also agree with Dewy that he's interchangeable. Personally, I'm not Church fan. So I see Swearinger overtaking him. Reason I keep going back to him despite his flaws is because he is a huge motivational leader and this team has lacked that for as long as I can remember. He's gonna be successful in the NFL because of his drive and passion for the game. Most likely we won't land him, but a team like Baltimore will and I will have to be jealous from the sidelines as he flourishes.

Glad you like Bass. I've been itching to talk about him but didn't want to until I was done with the mock. I really think he possesses everything Garrett looks for... the measurables, the production, and the motor/passion/drive. It's easy to find guys with 1 or 2 of those 3 keys, but not one who possesses all of them.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I know the response to this post is going to be "we didn't have the money", but do you believe at all that the Jones's are finally buying into the building your team via the draft mentality? I look at the teams in this league that are consistently successful and that's what they do. They occasionally go after some bigger FA's, but mainly look for value in FA over flash.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I know the response to this post is going to be "we didn't have the money", but do you believe at all that the Jones's are finally buying into the building your team via the draft mentality? I look at the teams in this league that are consistently successful and that's what they do. They occasionally go after some bigger FA's, but mainly look for value in FA over flash.
I dunno... I think they spend it as soon as they have it. Only reason we aren't spending now or haven't in the past is because we haven't had cap space to do it. Whenever we do, we find ways to use it all up. Cowboys are typically one of the highest spenders of the cap annually.

Our problem is we often overpay to keep our guys around (Free, Spears, Scandrick, Church) and don't always know when the right time is to move them. Take Mike Jenkins... last offseason we probably could've gotten a draft pick for him. This season, instead of trading Miles Austin, we gave him more guaranteed money just to get him to restructure. We're not paying him less on his contract (just less this year). Jay Ratliff should be shopped. I would even shop Hatcher who is a FA next season. We have dead money on the books for Sensabaugh. Many here openly criticized that extension from the start. So yeah, we still create our own messes that we have to deal with. Things aren't pretty.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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I dunno... I think they spend it as soon as they have it. Only reason we aren't spending now or haven't in the past is because we haven't had cap space to do it. Whenever we do, we find ways to use it all up. Cowboys are typically one of the highest spenders of the cap annually.

Our problem is we often overpay to keep our guys around (Free, Spears, Scandrick, Church) and don't always know when the right time is to move them. Take Mike Jenkins... last offseason we probably could've gotten a draft pick for him. This season, instead of trading Miles Austin, we gave him more guaranteed money just to get him to restructure. We're not paying him less on his contract (just less this year). Jay Ratliff should be shopped. I would even shop Hatcher who is a FA next season. We have dead money on the books for Sensabaugh. Many here openly criticized that extension from the start. So yeah, we still create our own messes that we have to deal with. Things aren't pretty.
Pittsburgh is the ideal team IMO when it comes to knowing when to cut a player 1 year too early as opposed to 1 year too late. And also not overpaying for players too. They could've paid Wallace last year, but they didn't and the Dolphins way overspent on him.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I have Swearinger at SS behind Church. But I also agree with Dewy that he's interchangeable. Personally, I'm not Church fan. So I see Swearinger overtaking him. Reason I keep going back to him despite his flaws is because he is a huge motivational leader and this team has lacked that for as long as I can remember. He's gonna be successful in the NFL because of his drive and passion for the game. Most likely we won't land him, but a team like Baltimore will and I will have to be jealous from the sidelines as he flourishes.

Glad you like Bass. I've been itching to talk about him but didn't want to until I was done with the mock. I really think he possesses everything Garrett looks for... the measurables, the production, and the motor/passion/drive. It's easy to find guys with 1 or 2 of those 3 keys, but not one who possesses all of them.
It's my opinion that most safeties are interchangeable these days. In fact, I'd say the more correct distinction is between "interchangeable" and "Pure FS"

Essentially every safety can cover well enough these days. The question is can they cover and maintain physicality, or are they strictly a cover guy like Rambo?

Rarely do we see a pure SS anymore. With so many college offenses running the spread, you just can't have those players on your roster. They just aren't valuable.

It's funny to see how people are categorizing safeties. If you go on NFL.com and look at their mock drafts, Daniel Jeremiah has Vacarro listed as a SS and has Elam & Cyprien listed as FS. So there really isn't a consensus as to what you label these guys.

Each has strengths, but it's more appropriate to call them safeties these days as opposed to labeling them Strong vs Free. Even Cam Chancellor drops back to cover people and does it well.

That's why the only safety I really don't like this year is Eric Reid because he's a guy I don't think has the ability to cover. I don't know of he gained weight or what but his senior tape in coverage tells me he will struggle in coverage at the next level.

Vacarro, Elam, Cyprien, Swearinger, Rambo, Thomas, Williams etc. are all guys that can cover. The distinction between them is "who can cover the slot" and "who plays with physicality in the run game"

The pure SS is dead. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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No, I figured him in at #16 to the Rams, just forgot to put him in the draft breakdown. I am a big fan of Patterson, he is a nice fit for the scheme as well and is has a similar skill set to Dez. If they were both on the board I think it would be an interesting call though. Austin is much more polished as a route runner then people give him credit for and has NFL ready hands. Patterson has a higher ceiling but is going to have a bigger learning curve especially when it comes to expanding his route tree.

Either way I don't think you lose, Tavon has the best stop and go/ zero to sixty acceleration to create space I've seen in college since Reggie Bush. In a scheme designed to push the safeties in deep coverage to open up the underneath routes he can certainly cause havoc for opposing defenses. With Patterson you get a guy who is hard to cover 1 vs 1 on the outside. He can catch the short ball and break tackles to get in the open field or use his big frame to go get the ball in tight coverage. Not to mention he can run past most corners if he catches them sleeping.

The interesting thing is that our WR coach Dooley has a feel for Patterson since he was the head coach at Tennessee last year. If anybody he should have the most input if it came down to those two players because he knows what Cordarelle's work ethic and learning capacity are.
if patterson and austin were both on the board, who would you take?
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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if patterson and austin were both on the board, who would you take?
I listened Pattersons interview and I see why people think he's going to have trouble learning the an NFL offense.

He sounds like Dez.

If a team is willing to wait 3-4 years for him to blossom and are willing to push him, he's got the potential to be one of the best in the league.

Austin gives you immediate impact from day 1. Garrett is in "win now to save my job" mode and Jerry thinks this team is a championship contender.

I think Austin would be the guy for the Cowboys for those reasons. Plus he brings a different demensional than Dez.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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I'd take Austin before Patterson. But I'd take Ace Sanders in Round 6 before Tavon Austin in Round 1.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Midway Through Offseason Mock:

For completed moves please see D-Unit's latest mock (Page 6).

Pre-Draft Moves:


DRAFT


POST-Draft Moves:

Last edited by Trogdor : 03-28-2013 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Fixed the draft. Will edit roster in next.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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That's an iffy draft for me. If we take a DE in Round 1 that would totally make the Spencer franchising a head scratcher for me. IMO, a round 1 DE should start on Day 1. I understand the want to perhaps let Spencer go after this season and put in place a better fit, but I think we can do that with a later pick. I want more impact in year 1 from our first pick. Going with 2 DEs (Maponga) is almost overkill. We only have 6 picks. Only way I see DE being the pick is if some elite talent falls to us and the guys we want are gone.

I really like the Cyprien pick (hopefully he's there). Lot of mocks have him going in Round 1.

I like the Brian Winters pick too.

Faulk, I'm iffy on. LSU OL are often overrated.

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Old 03-27-2013, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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I'd say that I'd walk away from draft weekend not exactly excited about this. I like Cyprien, but Okafor in the first. I mean why aren't we drafting a player in the first round that could potentially this year?
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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That draft makes me sad.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I'd make out with a desert eagle if that was our draft.

If Spencer is extended, which is the rumor, then DE makes no sense in the early rounds.

If he isn't, there is already a tailor made SDE on the roster with the ability to kick inside in the nickel in Crawford.

Aside from that, I question how Okafor would be drafted ahead of Cyprien. That's like the 7th rated DE coming off the board before arguably the top safety depending on who you talk to.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:59 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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My bad gentlemen I completely agree. Altered my original after I pasted it into the reply from my notepad. Originally had Cyprien then Armstead and decided to change it to Okafor / Cyp without really evaluating the rest of the draft. Wanted to work in Chris Faulk and didn't really think it through.

Made the tweaks in the original post but here's the updated:

1 (31): Jonathan Cyprien, SS, Florida International
2 (34): Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine Bluff
3 (74): Brian Winter, OG, Kent State
3 (86): Bennie Logan, DT, LSU
4 (111): Josh Evans, FS, Florida
5 (144): Kerwynn Williams, RB Utah State
6 (175) Stansly Maponga, DE, Texas Christian

UDFAs:
Jeff Tuel, QB, Washington State
Lanear Sampson, WR, Baylor


Much happier with the way that turned out. Full rationale I am in the process of editing into the original will be up in 5 minutes or so. Thoughts?

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Old 03-28-2013, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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I absolutely love me some Terron Armstread, and we have shown a considerable amount of interest. I'm going to be eyeing him with our 2nd round pick closely.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Drewy, what are your thoughts on Armstead? I'm curious about your take on him.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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dang trogdor stop stealing my thunder, first you take my boy armonty bryant b4 i could put him up on the small school thread, now the 49er trade and chris faulk c'mon stealing isnt right! JK

as for the 49er while i did bring it up a couple weeks and everybody said i was crazy and why wouldn't they sit their and take 13 players on team that was just in the super bowl, i think they would be aiming higher than the 18th pick because were at the mercy of what available already anyway, besides corner isn't a need have 4 guys who can start on nfl teams at corner, what they need is a interior pass rusher to take the presssure off/heir apparent to justin smith, when he got hurt is when their defense began to slide....so i'm thinking they trade up in that 8-12 range for sheldon richardson

the one logical trage i could see is a team trying to get ahead of the giants for de or cb like carradine, hunt or dj hayden (mayock put him ahead of desmond trufant in his ranking and had him as 1st rounder as long as the medical checks out)

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Old 03-28-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DrewyVuitton View Post
I listened Pattersons interview and I see why people think he's going to have trouble learning the an NFL offense.

He sounds like Dez.

If a team is willing to wait 3-4 years for him to blossom and are willing to push him, he's got the potential to be one of the best in the league.

Austin gives you immediate impact from day 1. Garrett is in "win now to save my job" mode and Jerry thinks this team is a championship contender.

I think Austin would be the guy for the Cowboys for those reasons. Plus he brings a different demensional than Dez.
what interview are you talking about? the only interview ive heard him sound like dez (uhhhh, like, and you know....) was the interview about dooley right after he got fired during the season, other than that everytime he's been interviewed the guy always has a big smile on his face and doesn't seem to be at a loss for words. unless you're referring to accent, in which i wasn't aware that a black guy with country accent = dumb as rocks. like most young wr's you're not gonna give him the whole playback, you give certain packages. the plays and routes you give him cater to his strengths i.e. wr screens, slants, 9 routes so he doesnt have alot thinking to do and just let his elite athleticism take over. also, the cowboys have the receivers ahead him to be able to develop him and use him as a compliment his first year or so

i like the fit of patterson better because other than dez and miles all the rest of the receivers on the team are slot type guys (harris and coale) and austin plays in the slot alot too. as explosive as tavon austin is i think he is the feliz jones of recievers, he's a specialty guy imo more so than a full time receiver. and i haven't seen him make alot of contested or make a catch across the middle knowing he's gonna take shot in the big-12 where defenses concede 5 yards every play, the only time i did was back in '11 vs lsu and the ball went right off his hands before eric reid blasted him and ended being an interception. i see tavon austin as a more explosive dexter mccluster than the percy harvin comp he has been getting

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Old 03-28-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Terron Amstead over Alex Okafor.... MUCH MUCH Better.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Terron Amstead over Alex Okafor.... MUCH MUCH Better.
:) Agreed. Not sure what I was thinking swapping those picks out. Bumped up Winter and Logan as well I think I was being optimistic with their initial placements. Still not sure Cyprien lasts until 31 but safeties and guards are two positions pre-draft that everyone has high and most of the time end up falling by draft day due to positional value. *shrugs*

Way too much talent in the safety pool this year. If we don't get a talented one it's going to be infuriating.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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:) Agreed. Not sure what I was thinking swapping those picks out. Bumped up Winter and Logan as well I think I was being optimistic with their initial placements. Still not sure Cyprien lasts until 31 but safeties and guards are two positions pre-draft that everyone has high and most of the time end up falling by draft day due to positional value. *shrugs*

Way too much talent in the safety pool this year. If we don't get a talented one it's going to be infuriating.
This is the deepest and best class of safeties that I can ever remember. We should not just get one but TWO from this draft if we know what's best for us.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Drewy, what are your thoughts on Armstead? I'm curious about your take on him.
I've read a lot of great stuff but haven't watched him myself yet. Haven't really focused on any tackles outside of Fluker, and I was looking at him as a potential RG.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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This is the deepest and best class of safeties that I can ever remember. We should not just get one but TWO from this draft if we know what's best for us.
Yeah, I agree on depth. Can't remember a safety class this deep with potential starters.
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