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Old 03-28-2013, 09:07 AM    (permalink
Unbiased
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post

You mentioned the big money 4-3 backers- who does that? Two of them have been injured. They have a stud in the middle now, so why not trade one or both of the other two? Instead, they let go of Anderson who has been a rock solid fill in for both injured starters?
Who does that? The guy who got fired for doing that. So dumping on him is pointless.

Why don't they magically get rid of those contracts? You can't just trade whomever you like. Who would trade FOR those guys?
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12 View Post
Carolina is no way in position to make a serious playoff run and they're already wasting Newton's talents by letting 4 bad contracts handcuff their ability to put a good roster behind him.

And with the impending release of McClain the Raiders are going to be $73.5M UNDER the cap next year and that include Palmer's ridiculous $17.3M cap number (they would gain $10M in cap room releasing/trading him next year). While Carolina is going to be the in the EXACT same position next year: picking between 9-16 with ZERO cap space.

The Raiders get it. The Panthers don't.
The Raiders are doing it wrong as well. The problem with having that much cap room is the fact that they don't have a young talent base that is going to need to be resigned in the next 3 years, so it's extremely difficult to make good use of that money without dabbling in the free agent market. They can front load contracts to an extent, but unless they want to overpay for free agents they're not going to convince players to come to the comically barren wasteland of talent that is Oakland. It's tough to justify not using the majority of your cap space, and there probably won't be enough value out their for Oakland to effectively use it. I can see Oakland making a lot of decisions they'll regret next offseason.

I'm sure the panthers would take a similar route to the Raiders, but their contacts are more recent and result in more dead money if cut, so they don't have the same options as Oakland did. Regardless the Panthers despite their cap issues are in much better shape than the Raiders going forward because they actually have some pieces to build off of.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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The Raiders are doing it wrong as well. The problem with having that much cap room is the fact that they don't have a young talent base that is going to need to be resigned in the next 3 years, so it's extremely difficult to make good use of that money without dabbling in the free agent market. They can front load contracts to an extent, but unless they want to overpay for free agents they're not going to convince players to come to the comically barren wasteland of talent that is Oakland. It's tough to justify not using the majority of your cap space, and there probably won't be enough value out their for Oakland to effectively use it. I can see Oakland making a lot of decisions they'll regret next offseason.

I'm sure the panthers would take a similar route to the Raiders, but their contacts are more recent and result in more dead money if cut, so they don't have the same options as Oakland did. Regardless the Panthers despite their cap issues are in much better shape than the Raiders going forward because they actually have some pieces to build off of.
I just don't get Black's argument that Oakland knows what they are doing. The points you make are very solid that Oakland probably has the worst base to build from in the entire NFL. There just isn't much there and it may be a decade before Oakland is competitive again. If their fan base is satisfied in waiting another 10 years, then by all means take the Oakland route.
I do agree with Black that cutting deadwood is a solid direction for Oakland to take but cutting everybody in sight seems a bit of an overkill if you ask me.

Black comparing Oakland's situation to Carolina's is simply way off the mark. Carolina has a true franchise QB from which to build a competitive franchise, they showed solid signs late last season of learning how to win games in the NFL and their future looks bright to me, the exact opposite to Oakland's future. Sure, Carolina isn't a perfect franchise, they still have some pieces missing from their team which will need to be addressed before they can take that final step forward and become a consistent winner, but that is different than what Oakland is facing.

IMO, Carolina should take the next step this coming season, Newton's third in the league, if they don't then maybe they may consider taking a step in rebuilding, but to take it this off season is ridiculous. Comparing them to Oakland is comparing apples to oranges, they are in completely different situations.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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There just isn't much there and it may be a decade before Oakland is competitive again. If their fan base is satisfied in waiting another 10 years, then by all means take the Oakland route.
10 years? What league have you been watching lately? All they have to do is hit on a QB and the rest will take care of itself.

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Black comparing Oakland's situation to Carolina's is simply way off the mark. Carolina has a true franchise QB from which to build a competitive franchise, they showed solid signs late last season of learning how to win games in the NFL and their future looks bright to me, the exact opposite to Oakland's future. Sure, Carolina isn't a perfect franchise, they still have some pieces missing from their team which will need to be addressed before they can take that final step forward and become a consistent winner, but that is different than what Oakland is facing.
You're using words like "build" and "addressed" but they have to do that exclusively through the draft because they're capped out again next year.

Oakland will make the playoffs long before Carolina does.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Who does that? The guy who got fired for doing that. So dumping on him is pointless.

Why don't they magically get rid of those contracts? You can't just trade whomever you like. Who would trade FOR those guys?
A, whatever they hell you can get? The cap is screwed. What is the NEW guy doing to fix it? Looks like nothing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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The Raiders are doing it wrong as well. The problem with having that much cap room is the fact that they don't have a young talent base that is going to need to be resigned in the next 3 years, so it's extremely difficult to make good use of that money without dabbling in the free agent market. They can front load contracts to an extent, but unless they want to overpay for free agents they're not going to convince players to come to the comically barren wasteland of talent that is Oakland. It's tough to justify not using the majority of your cap space, and there probably won't be enough value out their for Oakland to effectively use it. I can see Oakland making a lot of decisions they'll regret next offseason.

I'm sure the panthers would take a similar route to the Raiders, but their contacts are more recent and result in more dead money if cut, so they don't have the same options as Oakland did. Regardless the Panthers despite their cap issues are in much better shape than the Raiders going forward because they actually have some pieces to build off of.
What are you talking about? There is nothing worse than having no cap space filled with underachieving and overrated vets on a 4 win team. Reggie will build through the DRAFT just like the Packers did. When one of the young guys prove themselves worthy, then he will spend some money on contract extentions. There is no better way to do it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I just don't get Black's argument that Oakland knows what they are doing. The points you make are very solid that Oakland probably has the worst base to build from in the entire NFL. There just isn't much there and it may be a decade before Oakland is competitive again. If their fan base is satisfied in waiting another 10 years, then by all means take the Oakland route.
I do agree with Black that cutting deadwood is a solid direction for Oakland to take but cutting everybody in sight seems a bit of an overkill if you ask me.

Black comparing Oakland's situation to Carolina's is simply way off the mark. Carolina has a true franchise QB from which to build a competitive franchise, they showed solid signs late last season of learning how to win games in the NFL and their future looks bright to me, the exact opposite to Oakland's future. Sure, Carolina isn't a perfect franchise, they still have some pieces missing from their team which will need to be addressed before they can take that final step forward and become a consistent winner, but that is different than what Oakland is facing.

IMO, Carolina should take the next step this coming season, Newton's third in the league, if they don't then maybe they may consider taking a step in rebuilding, but to take it this off season is ridiculous. Comparing them to Oakland is comparing apples to oranges, they are in completely different situations.
Um, who were they supposed to keep? The only loss that hurts us from a talent standpoint is Desmond Bryant, but we weren't going to win a bidding war with anyone. DHB didn't work out as a player and was grossly overpaid. Lechler is a luxury we should have let go of years ago. We had the highest paid KICKER PUNTER AND LONG SNAPPER in history, all as the same time! Seymoure was a shell of his former self. Kelly was over paid and killed drives by jumping off sides and lining up in the neutral zone. McClain is an overpay bust. Meyers isn't nearly as good as his garbage time stats. His YAC yards were non-existent. And don't even get me started on Carson Quitter.

We had to cut bait THIS YEAR in order to move foward. Do you understand that all the highly paid vets we had got us a whopping 8 wins? I am baffled that anyone could question what this franchise is finally doing, which is rebuilding.

As far as not being competive for 10 years, what the hell are you basing that off of? Did you not notice what the Colts did last year with a team full of rookies? Give me a break. Hell, aren't you the one arguing that Panthers are close two years after having the worst record in football? We are just beginning the process of moving forward, but things will start to speed up for us after removing the albatrosses from our necks. Oh, and by the way, we HAVE signed several free agents, ones that are young with no baggage and looking for opportunities to shine. Contrary to your believe, we will fill out a roster.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12 View Post
10 years? What league have you been watching lately? All they have to do is hit on a QB and the rest will take care of itself.

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Your argument seems weak, Carolina has its QB yet you say they need to follow Oakland's lead and rebuild from scratch and that in Carolina's case, the rest won't take care of itself.


You're using words like "build" and "addressed" but they have to do that exclusively through the draft because they're capped out again next year.

Quote:
And what is the problem with addressing needs through the draft, FA rarely ever solves a weak team's problems.
Oakland will make the playoffs long before Carolina does.
I see, again, Carolina has its Franchise QB and Oakland doesn't but according to you Oakland is in a better position to make the playoffs sooner??? Based on what????
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Um, who were they supposed to keep? The only loss that hurts us from a talent standpoint is Desmond Bryant, but we weren't going to win a bidding war with anyone. DHB didn't work out as a player and was grossly overpaid. Lechler is a luxury we should have let go of years ago. We had the highest paid KICKER PUNTER AND LONG SNAPPER in history, all as the same time! Seymoure was a shell of his former self. Kelly was over paid and killed drives by jumping off sides and lining up in the neutral zone. McClain is an overpay bust. Meyers isn't nearly as good as his garbage time stats. His YAC yards were non-existent. And don't even get me started on Carson Quitter.

We had to cut bait THIS YEAR in order to move foward. Do you understand that all the highly paid vets we had got us a whopping 8 wins? I am baffled that anyone could question what this franchise is finally doing, which is rebuilding.

As far as not being competive for 10 years, what the hell are you basing that off of? Did you not notice what the Colts did last year with a team full of rookies? Give me a break. Hell, aren't you the one arguing that Panthers are close two years after having the worst record in football? We are just beginning the process of moving forward, but things will start to speed up for us after removing the albatrosses from our necks. Oh, and by the way, we HAVE signed several free agents, ones that are young with no baggage and looking for opportunities to shine. Contrary to your believe, we will fill out a roster.
Here, I think your argument makes some real sense and maybe I exaggerated using 10 years although finding a franchise QB is very difficult and can take a surprisingly long time. Last year's QB crop is after all, an exception to the rule and you have to be awfully lucky to be in the right place at the right time to get one. Look at the teams who need a franchise QB this draft year who have high picks?

It is your argument that Carolina needs to gut their team which I don't think holds water. They, with their franchise QB in place, which is a far different situation than Oakland's.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Here, I think your argument makes some real sense and maybe I exaggerated using 10 years although finding a franchise QB is very difficult and can take a surprisingly long time. Last year's QB crop is after all, an exception to the rule and you have to be awfully lucky to be in the right place at the right time to get one. Look at the teams who need a franchise QB this draft year who have high picks?

It is your argument that Carolina needs to gut their team which I don't think holds water. They, with their franchise QB in place, which is a far different situation than Oakland's.
No, I don't think they need to "gut their team." They need to cut some of the overpaid guys at non-key positions, specifically running back and LB. Those positions don't make you contenders. That's all I am saying. It's been two years of off season nothingness. Ironically, they really hit on thing first round last year- another LB- and still have two other big money LBs on the roster! Just like they have two big money RBs who can't muster up a healthy running attack between them.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Lol. Olsen is actually a very good TE and one of our biggest weapons.
says more about the talent than olsen
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Gettleman's first offseason has been decent for what he has to work with. They could only hope to add some decent depth players and be in position to pick BPA in the draft. I think they've done that.

New guys:
Ted Ginn - Decent pick up, at least helps ST
Chase Blackburn - at least a good backup and less expensive than Anderson
Mike Mitchell - hopefully adds depth to safety position
D.J. Moore - more depth/competition

Re-signed:
Captain Munnerlyn - Gettleman made an offer and stuck to it.
Dwan Edwards - career year in the 4-3 and was allowed to look elsewhere


Probably a fringe playoff contender if they have a solid draft. It really depends on if they start winning close games. The first two picks will be huge, I'm hoping for some combination of WR/S/CB/DT.

I'd prefer trading back and getting another pick. Most of the positions I'd want are strong in the second round.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Fluker in the 1st, CB in the 2nd and work from there.
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