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Old 03-28-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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what interview are you talking about? the only interview ive heard him sound like dez (uhhhh, like, and you know....) was the interview about dooley right after he got fired during the season, other than that everytime he's been interviewed the guy always has a big smile on his face and doesn't seem to be at a loss for words. unless you're referring to accent, in which i wasn't aware that a black guy with country accent = dumb as rocks. like most young wr's you're not gonna give him the whole playback, you give certain packages. the plays and routes you give him cater to his strengths i.e. wr screens, slants, 9 routes so he doesnt have alot thinking to do and just let his elite athleticism take over. also, the cowboys have the receivers ahead him to be able to develop him and use him as a compliment his first year or so

i like the fit of patterson better because other than dez and miles all the rest of the receivers on the team are slot type guys (harris and coale) and austin plays in the slot alot too. as explosive as tavon austin is i think he is the feliz jones of recievers, he's a specialty guy imo more so than a full time receiver. and i haven't seen him make alot of contested or make a catch across the middle knowing he's gonna take shot in the big-12 where defenses concede 5 yards every play, the only time i did was back in '11 vs lsu and the ball went right off his hands before eric reid blasted him and ended being an interception. i see tavon austin as a more explosive dexter mccluster than the percy harvin comp he has been getting
It's been said that scouts biggest concerns about him are with his ability to learn a playbook & his smarts. And yes, after listening to him and his "accent" if that's what you want to call it, id say he's pretty dumb.

I watched the game changers segment on NFLN the other day with Robert Woods, Da'Rick Rogers, Keenan Allen & Cordarelle Patterson and its pretty clear Patterson is the least well-spoken of the bunch.

Say I'm stereotyping or whatever you want to call it, but vocabulary is big indicator of intelligence. Dez is an idiot and it took him 3+ years to get to where he needed to be. I believe it's going to be similar for Patterson.

He's the most physically gifted WR in the draft and has potential to be a dominant, top-5 guy in this league, but I think the questions about his learning ability are there for a reason.

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Old 03-28-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Drewy, what are your thoughts on Armstead? I'm curious about your take on him.
Just watched the 2 cut ups available. On the downside, it's against Jackson State and Alabama State so it's difficult to gauge the level of competition he's facing.

Although offensive tackle isn't a strength for me when evaluating players at this point, I think his athleticism is obvious. Very light feet and good on the move. Saw him get to the 2nd level and take out the LB consistently.

his technique seems off to me in pass pro. Instead of using a proper kick-step, Armstead seems to be able to get by on his athleticism. So while he has great feet, I don't think his footwork is where it's going to need to be. However, that's something that can be coached. His natural ability cannot.

It was fine at the level he was playing against but I think there is potential for balance issues if it isn't cleaned up at the next level.

At this point there are no balance issues and he doesn't get caught leaning or reaching, which is a positive.

He looks like an LT to me. All the tools and athleticism to protect the blindside. He was good run blocking in the games I watched but I'm not sure he has the base to be a top tier run blocker at the next level. Not the typical "mauler" like Fluker or Andre Smith or Columbo, etc.

However, the Cowboys had success with Free at RT, and he doesn't have a great base either. He's more of a LT that was able to play RT at a high level (once upon a time) so it's possible Armstead would do well on the right side. I don't think it's his best position but as long as you can play well enough, that doesn't matter.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Just watched the 2 cut ups available. On the downside, it's against Jackson State and Alabama State so it's difficult to gauge the level of competition he's facing.

Although offensive tackle isn't a strength for me when evaluating players at this point, I think his athleticism is obvious. Very light feet and good on the move. Saw him get to the 2nd level and take out the LB consistently.

his technique seems off to me in pass pro. Instead of using a proper kick-step, Armstead seems to be able to get by on his athleticism. So while he has great feet, I don't think his footwork is where it's going to need to be. However, that's something that can be coached. His natural ability cannot.

It was fine at the level he was playing against but I think there is potential for balance issues if it isn't cleaned up at the next level.

At this point there are no balance issues and he doesn't get caught leaning or reaching, which is a positive.

He looks like an LT to me. All the tools and athleticism to protect the blindside. He was good run blocking in the games I watched but I'm not sure he has the base to be a top tier run blocker at the next level. Not the typical "mauler" like Fluker or Andre Smith or Columbo, etc.

However, the Cowboys had success with Free at RT, and he doesn't have a great base either. He's more of a LT that was able to play RT at a high level (once upon a time) so it's possible Armstead would do well on the right side. I don't think it's his best position but as long as you can play well enough, that doesn't matter.
GREAT breakdown there buddy! I do semi-question his fit for us at RT.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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GREAT breakdown there buddy! I do semi-question his fit for us at RT.
Thanks.

I think for a team that runs a lot out of spread looks, like GB for example, he'd be fine as an RT. Or just teams running a ZBS in general that want a lot of movement with their tackles, he'd be good.

As I alluded to above, I think he COULD play RT for the Cowboys, but for a team that likes to run a power scheme, it's not ideal.

Although I question his pass pro, Fluker is really the type of guy that fits the mold of a Dallas OL.

I'm guessing a team like New Orleans who's in need of an LT but won't have a shot at the top 3 guys will be zeroing in on Armstead in rd 2.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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Thanks.

I think for a team that runs a lot out of spread looks, like GB for example, he'd be fine as an RT. Or just teams running a ZBS in general that want a lot of movement with their tackles, he'd be good.

As I alluded to above, I think he COULD play RT for the Cowboys, but for a team that likes to run a power scheme, it's not ideal.

Although I question his pass pro, Fluker is really the type of guy that fits the mold of a Dallas OL.

I'm guessing a team like New Orleans who's in need of an LT but won't have a shot at the top 3 guys will be zeroing in on Armstead in rd 2.
I'm not real high on Armstead. He seems like a real project and not sure I'd take the chance on him in rounds 2-4, but someone will.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
DrewyVuitton
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I'm not real high on Armstead. He seems like a real project and not sure I'd take the chance on him in rounds 2-4, but someone will.
Understandable. I think he's got a lot of potential because its infrequent to find someone as big as him with his movement skills, but he's pretty much gotten by on great athleticism vs lesser opponents and will need to be coached up.

At least that's my opinion.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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It's been said that scouts biggest concerns about him are with his ability to learn a playbook & his smarts. And yes, after listening to him and his "accent" if that's what you want to call it, id say he's pretty dumb.

I watched the game changers segment on NFLN the other day with Robert Woods, Da'Rick Rogers, Keenan Allen & Cordarelle Patterson and its pretty clear Patterson is the least well-spoken of the bunch.

Say I'm stereotyping or whatever you want to call it, but vocabulary is big indicator of intelligence. Dez is an idiot and it took him 3+ years to get to where he needed to be. I believe it's going to be similar for Patterson.

He's the most physically gifted WR in the draft and has potential to be a dominant, top-5 guy in this league, but I think the questions about his learning ability are there for a reason.
sorry bout the late reply but easter weekend, ncaa tourney and work.

eloquence can't be the determinate of intelligence, all these guys come from different walks of life, judging a guy on how many different words he can use is unfair, but we can agree to disagree. (technically there are actually 9 forms of intelligence and he & dez would be at the top of the list on 1 form of intelligence)

but as for dez needing 3 years to learn the offense i think thats inaccurate, the routes dez ran this year are the same since his rookie year. they don't put him in the slot, motion him around alot or have him running more advanced routes. now he did have more sight adjustment reads this year, something that you would expected to see more in the second year, but there was the lockout that offseason, and i do think that hurt his progress as a receiver. he just executed his job better in the second half of the season, and that was the difference this year

but imo the thing held dez most back was his immaturity and lack of attention to detail

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Old 04-03-2013, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Just throwing in my 2 cents. If any team in the league could feel comfortable taking patterson you'd have to think the cowboys would be that team. They just successfully pulled off this with Dez. They have his former head coach on the staff. Obviously any concerns about learning the playbook would fall back to talking to his college coach. He is on the staff....needless to say I think if we select him we have a good idea of what needs to be done. How to bring them in. He's also coming into a position where he'd likely still be on the outside. Austin/Witten/Beasley/Dreads will likely man the inside position this year and into the future till they feel comfortable with Patterson on the inside. Letting patterson use his raw abilities on the outside as a 2nd or 3rd read shouldn't be too tough. We'd atleast see some production. And getting that talent at 18 and developing it is what makes good teams great.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Just throwing in my 2 cents. If any team in the league could feel comfortable taking patterson you'd have to think the cowboys would be that team. They just successfully pulled off this with Dez. They have his former head coach on the staff. Obviously any concerns about learning the playbook would fall back to talking to his college coach. He is on the staff....needless to say I think if we select him we have a good idea of what needs to be done. How to bring them in. He's also coming into a position where he'd likely still be on the outside. Austin/Witten/Beasley/Dreads will likely man the inside position this year and into the future till they feel comfortable with Patterson on the inside. Letting patterson use his raw abilities on the outside as a 2nd or 3rd read shouldn't be too tough. We'd atleast see some production. And getting that talent at 18 and developing it is what makes good teams great.
I always love your 2 cents! Good stuff. Patterson is intriguing. I'll admit that.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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Just throwing in my 2 cents. If any team in the league could feel comfortable taking patterson you'd have to think the cowboys would be that team. They just successfully pulled off this with Dez. They have his former head coach on the staff. Obviously any concerns about learning the playbook would fall back to talking to his college coach. He is on the staff....needless to say I think if we select him we have a good idea of what needs to be done. How to bring them in. He's also coming into a position where he'd likely still be on the outside. Austin/Witten/Beasley/Dreads will likely man the inside position this year and into the future till they feel comfortable with Patterson on the inside. Letting patterson use his raw abilities on the outside as a 2nd or 3rd read shouldn't be too tough. We'd atleast see some production. And getting that talent at 18 and developing it is what makes good teams great.
So if both Patterson and Austin are sitting there at 18, who would you take?
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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So if both Patterson and Austin are sitting there at 18, who would you take?
That's a trick question. The correct answer is Jonathan Cooper. :D
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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That's a trick question. The correct answer is Jonathan Cooper. :D
Let me rephrase the question.

If Cooper & Warmack are off the board and we decide to go WR, do you take Patterson or Austin if both are there?
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Let me rephrase the question.

If Cooper & Warmack are off the board and we decide to go WR, do you take Patterson or Austin if both are there?
To rephrase Trogdor's answer, I'm not sure that Patterson or Austin are worthy of that pick.

Players I would prefer over Patterson or Austin (in no particular order)

Joekel
Fisher
Lane Johnson
Star Lotuleilei
Sharrif Floyd
Jarvis Jones
Sheldon Richardson
Kenny Vacarro
Jonathan Cooper
Chance Warmack
DaMontre Moore
Ezekiel Ansah
Bjoern Werner

That's 13 players, now add in the fact that Geno Smith, Dion Jordan, Dee Milliner and maybe Matt Barkley and Mingo go before Dallas picks, and you have 18 picks. Someone who better matches Dallas's needs will be there.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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DallasCowboys.com mock draft

Read over this, and I have to be honest with you... my BEST case scenario is David Helman's though I must admit, he's really getting value with every single one of those picks...

I could see almost every one of those picks going earlier than Dallas, but if those all slid - would be IDEAL.
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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To rephrase Trogdor's answer, I'm not sure that Patterson or Austin are worthy of that pick.

Players I would prefer over Patterson or Austin (in no particular order)

Joekel
Fisher
Lane Johnson
Star Lotuleilei
Sharrif Floyd
Jarvis Jones
Sheldon Richardson
Kenny Vacarro
Jonathan Cooper
Chance Warmack
DaMontre Moore
Ezekiel Ansah
Bjoern Werner

That's 13 players, now add in the fact that Geno Smith, Dion Jordan, Dee Milliner and maybe Matt Barkley and Mingo go before Dallas picks, and you have 18 picks. Someone who better matches Dallas's needs will be there.
??? wait i don't get it are you saying one of those 13 guys will be on the board or they'll all be gone?

i could easily see everyone except werner or moore gone, and i doubt moore goes in the 1st or maybe even second.

good chance patterson and/or austin would be the best player left and i don't see alec ogletree as a target either
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Let me rephrase the question.

If Cooper & Warmack are off the board and we decide to go WR, do you take Patterson or Austin if both are there?
There is zero chance we take a WR, if the OL isn't taken then a DT or Safety are the likely picks.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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??? wait i don't get it are you saying one of those 13 guys will be on the board or they'll all be gone?

i could easily see everyone except werner or moore gone, and i doubt moore goes in the 1st or maybe even second.

good chance patterson and/or austin would be the best player left and i don't see alec ogletree as a target either
I'm saying it would probably take a perfect storm for one of the 13 players I listed above to NOT be there for Dallas who I personally have ranked higher or equal to Austin or Patterson. Keep in mind I'm a diehard WVU fan, and have seen all of Austin's games over the past 4 years. I don't know that he's such an undeniable talent that it would make me take him vs. say a Sylvester Williams or even a DJ Fluker if push came to shove.

I understand taking the best player available... I do. But this draft is about 5-7 truly ELITE talents, and then probably 20 or so REALLY good players - so you couldn't go wrong addressing a NEED. Patterson or even Austin are certainly no Dez Bryant. This isn't a situation where they're a top 10 talent that COULD fall - they're simply top 20 or so talent's who will probably be there. If all things are equal, I'm drafting a position of need rather than doing that. ESPECIALLY since I question how much better a Tavon Austin or a Patterson is than Keenan Allen or Justin Hunter or DeAndre Hopkins who I can have in the 2nd. Or a Terrence Williams or a Stedman Bailey who I can have in the 3rd. Receiver is a deep position this year with a rather unimpressive top. I just don't see a scenario where Dallas seriously considers a wide out in the first unless they were to trade down.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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There is zero chance we take a WR, if the OL isn't taken then a DT or Safety are the likely picks.
Absolutely. If the top guards and tackles and safties AND defensive tackles are off the board, the greatest value probably lies in either one of the defensive ends who slipped, or just trading back and letting a team lacking weapons pick Patterson or Austin.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Let's just give the guy his answer....

Between the 2, I would take Tavon over Patterson.

But I would take DeAndre Hopkins over both.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Let's just give the guy his answer....

Between the 2, I would take Tavon over Patterson.

But I would take DeAndre Hopkins over both.
The whole conversation makes me ill but I'll bite.

Personally I'd say Patterson > Tavon > Hopkins

As far as looking at the 'Boys I'd say Patterson > Hopkins >>>> Tavon. Austin doesn't fit the profile that we target in the slightest. We like size/speed guys while Tavon is extremely undersized for our mold. Dallas loves kicking Miles down into the slot so a receiver we take needs to be able to play outside and I don't buy that Tavon can play anywhere other than the slot.

That being said if we are drafting a WR out of the three I hope it means we traded out of the first round and are selecting them with a Day 2 pick.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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So if both Patterson and Austin are sitting there at 18, who would you take?
I think Patterson has to be the pick there. Austin and Witten can already handle the middle of the field. Patterson can be groomed for a year behind Austin and he does have the size/speed ratio that we go after. We've always wanted size on the outside...Tavon is a hell of a player but not sure if he fits what we look for in a outside WR. And although #3 WR is a need....in the draft I think we are looking at 2014 needs which should be starting potential behind Austin who could be a cap casualty next year.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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There is zero chance we take a WR, if the OL isn't taken then a DT or Safety are the likely picks.
0 chance...people who speak in absolutes......

Dallas could very well go BPA in the draft...and there is a good chance that WR is the top player on our board. Not sure why you'd close the door when Austin's contract is a big issue moving forward.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Just for anyone who may be interested I am representing the Cowboys in the latest forum mock and this has been the progress thus far.

-I was awarded Eric Winston in free agency, signed for 3yrs $14.5mil ($3.5m, $5m,$6m) with $5 Mil guaranteed, the first year is fully guarenteed and $1.5 mil of year #2. Essentially, the third year is voidable since there is no money that is owed if we were to cut him prior to the season. The is also a built in $1mil escalator clause for any year he make the probowl.

-Doug Free immediately was designated a June 1st cut, opening up apx $7m in cap space later in the offseason.

-Important draft notes:

6) Cleveland Browns select Chance Warmack
11) NY Jets select Kenny Vacarro
12) Miami Dolphins select Cornellius Carradine
14) Carolina Panthers select Cardarelle Patterson
16) St Louis Rams select Tavon Austin
17) San Fran trades up last minute to select Jon Cooper

At #18 I chose to draft our 3 tech of the future in Sheldon Richardson.

32) Baltimore Ravens select Johnathan Cyprien
33) St Louis Rams select Matt Elam
37) Cincinatti Bengals select Kyle Long

With Safety and zone friendly Guards dwindling I was forced with the dilema to wither trade up or sit tight possibly missing out on the interior help we need. Looking at the players on the board I chose to sacrifice our #4 to move up to #38.

At #38 I chose to swipe Justin Pugh and project him inside at guard next to Winston. Pugh has very good lateral movement and would be an asset in pass protection on the inside against 3-techs.

I'm pretty much done for the day and we will see how the next round and a half pan out but S,RB,DE,TE,C are all on my radar for the rest of the draft. Not quiet sure if I am going to try and trade down in the 3rd and recoop an additional draft pick or sit tight yet. I'll update this every couple of rounds.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I like it Witten. Moving up for Pugh might be hard to swallow for some...but he is a hell of a football player. And gotta pick the safety you like most here in the 3rd and you wrapped up all of our top needs good job.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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I like it Witten. Moving up for Pugh might be hard to swallow for some...but he is a hell of a football player. And gotta pick the safety you like most here in the 3rd and you wrapped up all of our top needs good job.
Agreed on every point. Land someone a playmaking safety in the 3rd like Phillip Thomas and that would be a really nice mock given the board.
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