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Old 04-01-2013, 09:34 AM    (permalink
ryno626
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anyone want to pm me a link for last night's episode? I moved over the weekend and couldn't get cable setup in time.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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That show at least had a definitive direction, the writers were all on the same page, and it was done in a spectacularly artistic way. IMO. I'll just have to disagree.
Only thing Lost had on this was way better characters. To me it's the same I'm watching to find out how it all ends kind of thing.

I certainly like it more in the early seasons, but the ending disappointed me so much I think it made me think of the whole series worse.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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I can think of one obviously... not the other
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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I will agree with a lot of you saying that the battle was anticlimactic. But it was realistic. Almost all the people in the Governor's group have no battle experience. So when things go bad, I'm not mad that they made a run for it. But they shouldn't have just had the Governor, Martinez, and random black guy drive off. At the very least, they should have ended the episode with the Governor planning something, spying on the prison, or anything to kind of lead into the next season.

Also, Allen broke the cardinal rule of guns. Don't pull your gun unless you are planning on shooting. And don't plan on shooting unless you are okay with killing the person you are shooting at.

Lastly, Carl was 100% right shooting that kid. They said drop the gun. He didn't drop the gun. And like Carl, you never know what the kid would end up doing if they didn't kill him. I really like how they have progressed Carl's character this season from a worthless pile of horse poo to almost a mini-Governor.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Ahh yeah... I guess but less long term ramifications.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I like Carl after this season a lot more. And it makes sense, he's growing up in this world, he should be the one that isn't afraid to do what needs to be done because of history.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I thought it was common knowledge that it's not some random black guy with the Gov, thats Ed Reed.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Broth, you say that this show can't win with some people, but you're on the other end of the spectrum: you will defend everything this show does until your dying breath.
The best analogy I can think of for the supporters are comparing them to the pro Mark Sanchez camp around these parts the last couple of seasons. Sure he'd have a great game against the bills every once in awhile to which the suporters would jump on and use to emphasize the fact that he can look like a decent starter, all the while ignoring the majority of terribleness exhibited over the season against every other team. I mean when your best argument is "the finale was alright", youre really setting that bar low for expectations, and expecting others to do the same is ridiculous.

Although I'm sure were guilty for setting it too high, something I attribute to acknowledging the fact that the show has enormous potential to reach that standard....it just doesnt. But hey, last weeks episode really sent all us "haters" packing.......
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Broth, you say that this show can't win with some people, but you're on the other end of the spectrum: you will defend everything this show does until your dying breath.
I wouldn't say I've defended 100% of everything this show has done. Ones I can specifically remember is the over acting by rick when Lorie died I even said the season's final episode was rather lack luster, I'm sure if I went deep enough into the thread I could find other instances. I've always been livid at how the show hasn't ever followed the comics (past the very beginning of season 2). I'll say its true about my vitriol always being more pro show but it is generally more due to being a counter point to the people who hate the show regardless of what it does .
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say I've defended 100% of everything this show has done. Ones I can specifically remember is the over acting by rick when Lorie died I even said the season's final episode was rather lack luster, I'm sure if I went deep enough into the thread I could find other instances. I've always been livid at how the show hasn't ever followed the comics (past the very beginning of season 2). I'll say its true about my vitriol always being more pro show but it is generally more due to being a counter point to the people who hate the show regardless of what it does .
I don't hate the show unless it deserves it, and this has definitely deserved it. Season 1 was a good time, season 2 was pretty much awful, and I actually liked most of season 3 except I thought the finale was the worst season finale I've ever seen.

But it doesn't matter, because TWD hit 12m+ viewers and an 5.6 in the 18-49 demo. It isn't in danger at all. Maybe if it was they would make some changes that would improve quality, but oh well.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I was a big fan during season 1. Season 2 was a stinker. Season 3 started to raise my interest in the series again. I've watched the first 2 episodes of season 4 when they first aired and I haven't seen any of the other season 4 episodes. I got too busy to watch them when they first aired and I haven't bothered going back to them. I find that I haven't really cared about finding out what has happened now. Maybe I'll watch them at some point in the future, maybe not.

I was a big supported of the show at first. I'm just burned out at this point, I suppose.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I was a big fan during season 1. Season 2 was a stinker. Season 3 started to raise my interest in the series again. I've watched the first 2 episodes of season 4 when they first aired and I haven't seen any of the other season 4 episodes. I got too busy to watch them when they first aired and I haven't bothered going back to them. I find that I haven't really cared about finding out what has happened now. Maybe I'll watch them at some point in the future, maybe not.

I was a big supported of the show at first. I'm just burned out at this point, I suppose.
You have access to Season 4 already?!!?!!?

: )
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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The best analogy I can think of for the supporters are comparing them to the pro Mark Sanchez camp around these parts the last couple of seasons. Sure he'd have a great game against the bills every once in awhile to which the suporters would jump on and use to emphasize the fact that he can look like a decent starter, all the while ignoring the majority of terribleness exhibited over the season against every other team. I mean when your best argument is "the finale was alright", youre really setting that bar low for expectations, and expecting others to do the same is ridiculous.

Although I'm sure were guilty for setting it too high, something I attribute to acknowledging the fact that the show has enormous potential to reach that standard....it just doesnt. But hey, last weeks episode really sent all us "haters" packing.......
Comparing this show to Mark Sanchez is terrible and laughable. I'd say closer to an Andy Dalton good but not great QB who people think is better than he is. The same is true with the Walking Dead. It will never be Game of Thrones (it could have been if they did what Game of Thrones did but I digress.) I guess it is easier to defend the show without the expectations but with that said many times the things you guys complain about has nothing to do with the story. "Plot holes" that have nothing to with the plot. Bullet physics errors? The plane is a different color? things Sure some things done during action scenes were silly (what comes to mind is firing from a moving vehicle.) . There are legitimate gripes with the show but they often get lost in the crap.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone thinks Andy is better than he is. The Sanchez comparison was pretty solid.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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TWD could have never been Game of Thrones no matter what they did because of the source material. Game of Thrones has better characters, a better plot, and is better written.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Comparing this show to Mark Sanchez is terrible and laughable. I'd say closer to an Andy Dalton good but not great QB who people think is better than he is. The same is true with the Walking Dead. It will never be Game of Thrones (it could have been if they did what Game of Thrones did but I digress.) I guess it is easier to defend the show without the expectations but with that said many times the things you guys complain about has nothing to do with the story. "Plot holes" that have nothing to with the plot. Bullet physics errors? The plane is a different color? things Sure some things done during action scenes were silly (what comes to mind is firing from a moving vehicle.) . There are legitimate gripes with the show but they often get lost in the crap.
And those things you listed I have never taken issue with. What I do take issue with are, lack of any real interesting characters. Darryl is always listed as the most likeable, and I don't disagree but that hardly means hes a good characters. He just doesn't make as many ridiculous unintelligent choices as the rest of the group, has a no ******** bravado, and uses a cross bow(while cool highly unpractical).

Other than that, I want all of these damn characters to die, I can't stand any of them. They constantly make terrible decisions that do nothing but put people in worse situations. And I blame that on the writers. Never once have i nit picked anything about this show, mostly because this season Ive only tuned in when Ive had time and there are always far larger problems with what goes on than anything you listed.

Also the Sanchez comment was ******* dead accurate. The only thing I'd change is that this show actually has a high ceiling. Yet the people content with this **** will flock to it like a crack baby which in turn will never push this team to get competent writers, meaning we'll get left with more of last night with a few solid episodes per season for some time to come. Boo hoo that not everyone is content with mediocrity, and even thats a compliment to use on this trash. Take away the zombies and not a single person could tell me they'd sit through a show with these characters. Can you imagine these people in GoT, or BB, or Lost?
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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My only real gripe is that the Governor just disappeared. I liked everything else they had going on from start to finish. I still think the writing/directing are terrible but I've adjusted my expectations and increased my suspension of disbelief accordingly.

I think JR covered it well - the Gov's fighters were wiped out and his group of average people weren't up to the task. The battle scene was very realistic for the circumstances and it went down the way I expected (after the surprise attack, as I was just starting to believe the prison had been abandoned).

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Andrea... :'(

Was Carl wrong to merc that kid in the head? No sir. Carl is his own man. That wasn't even his whole night.

Plus, drop the gun means drop the gun. Not hold it out and slowly lower it. It could have been a trick. Maybe he tries a fake out, or has another gun on him? King Carl doesn't know. All he sees is hesitation. Hershel needs to check himself. He's just mad at today's youths, and knows Beth's erotic future is with Generation Carl.
Dead on balls accurate. Andrea & Carl have consistently been the scapegoats, imo. I liked both as compelling but terribly written/directed roles, rather than **** actors like most claim. Suddenly Carl is a better actor? No. He just isn't written into a craptastic, unattended brat.

Drop the gun. Don't keep walking towards us with it in your hands. Herschel's a biddy for not seeing it that way and Carl is 100% right - it's time to take out the bad guys and be done with it. Beth, no doubt, got moist.

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This is what I'll say yes the final episode a not as good as the episode before it but it seems that the show just can't win with some people.

First they talk too much "They should call it talking dead lolz" then the pick up the action a little then "Why don't they give the asthma kid a back story."

First "they don't miss totally unrealistic" then "Hey why don't they hit any of the governor's men" then "that battle didn't take long enough."
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Broth, you say that this show can't win with some people, but you're on the other end of the spectrum: you will defend everything this show does until your dying breath.
I think Broth is right, regardless of his stance on the show. I see it the same way. His points are dead on, and draw from statements made over the course of the season.


Things done right:
- Carl steps up.
- Andrea gets a chance to explain what she was doing (which was admirable all along) and gets a resolution to her story w/the group.
- Governor shows just how vicious he is and sets up his comic-version self for crazyness next season. (this covers the Milton scene plus the awesomeness that was his snap, wiping out everyone.)
- Surprise/Ambush at the prison. It was well set up w/the sounds of doors and the appearance of flash grenades and walkers. Riot gear w/Maggie and Glen being badass was a plus, too.
- Tyrese showing his worth, again. Rejoining Rick's group.
- Gate ramming and walker wasting entrance to the prison.
- The 'realistic' way the battle went at the prison with a big group of soft Woodbury citizens turning tail.

Things they did wrong:
- Governor just leaves and goes . . . where, exactly? Dumb. He certainly would have gone back to Woodbury and expected his last two cronies to play along.
- Rick's group should have wiped out the Gov's group in the Tombs. Sneak attack with flash grenades and walkers should have made them easy targets.
- Milton died. Not a huge minus for me, though, as they used him well to end the season. It's only a minus b/c he was becoming a very compelling character in a show that is lacking compelling characters.
- No real set up for next season. Governor? Some other threat? The Gov + 2 cronies, few weapons and an apparent wanderlust isn't a great story for the next season's conflict. Also not a huge issue for me, aside from the very real concern that next season will become "The Farm: Revisited."
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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- No real set up for next season. Governor? Some other threat? The Gov + 2 cronies, few weapons and an apparent wanderlust isn't a great story for the next season's conflict. Also not a huge issue for me, aside from the very real concern that next season will become "The Farm: Revisited."
This is my biggest concern for next season. Before this episode, I had a number of different ideas on which way the show could go. Some were based on the comics. Others not so much. But how this episode ended, I have no idea what will happen next.

They could have shown the Governor, Martinez, and Ed Reed doing something. They oculd have shown Morgan doing something. Or they could have done some things from the comics:



But without any foreshadowing, I have not idea what is coming up. And without a hint as to what is going to happen, I have nothing to look forward too and I'm not as excited for the next season premier.

But my guess for Season Four is the group at the Prison if shown after a a six-month break.The first episode will be quite slow. A basic run down of what has happened. Daryl and Carol are together. Glenn and Maggie are married. Crops are being harvested. Life is finally getting back to normal. The episode ends with a shot of the Governor, Martinez, and Ed Reed gathering a crew of random survivors for a last ditched effort to take the prison.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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- No real set up for next season. Governor? Some other threat? The Gov + 2 cronies, few weapons and an apparent wanderlust isn't a great story for the next season's conflict. Also not a huge issue for me, aside from the very real concern that next season will become "The Farm: Revisited."
I think this explains my middling interest in this episode. A season finale should provide a yearning for the next season, and this did not.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I was pumped for a shoot out and didn't get it. :/
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Also, they better not make next season just like being on the farm. Which is what I feel may happen. Ah, interpersonal drama at the prison!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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This is my biggest concern for next season. Before this episode, I had a number of different ideas on which way the show could go. Some were based on the comics. Others not so much. But how this episode ended, I have no idea what will happen next.

They could have shown the Governor, Martinez, and Ed Reed doing something. They oculd have shown Morgan doing something. Or they could have done some things from the comics:



But without any foreshadowing, I have not idea what is coming up. And without a hint as to what is going to happen, I have nothing to look forward too and I'm not as excited for the next season premier.

But my guess for Season Four is the group at the Prison if shown after a a six-month break.The first episode will be quite slow. A basic run down of what has happened. Daryl and Carol are together. Glenn and Maggie are married. Crops are being harvested. Life is finally getting back to normal. The episode ends with a shot of the Governor, Martinez, and Ed Reed gathering a crew of random survivors for a last ditched effort to take the prison.
Wouldn't it be an epic start to the season if the Governor ran into the Hunters. It would be a really good way to introduce them.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Also, they better not make next season just like being on the farm. Which is what I feel may happen. Ah, interpersonal drama at the prison!
My worst ******* fear.

And this time there won't be a headcase like Shane which will make it even worse.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I was pumped for a shoot out and didn't get it. :/
Yep, that's getting really annoying. They purposely hype these things up and then just don't give you much of anything.

The midseason cliffhanger with Daryl was resolved in a couple minutes. I know when two guys are pitted against each other in a fight to the death, you don't exactly have a large amount of time to resolve it, but it just felt like it was over so quick with a happy outcome.

Then this episode is titled "Welcome to the Tombs" and they spend, what, 80 seconds in that area? The fight was a total letdown.

This is the refrain for complaints with the show - These things might make sense with how they happen, but they're just not entertaining. I'm sorry if it sounds like I have an attention span that can only be measured in nanoseconds and need zombies chomping and firefights all the time, but that was such a weak finale.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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My worst ******* fear.

And this time there won't be a headcase like Shane which will make it even worse.
One of the newly adopted old folk will come down with a bad case of diabeetus and the season will revolve around contant supply runs to Wilford Brimley's house.
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